Starter won't crank engine after warm?

8850 · 06-03-2001, 06:07 AM

My engine turns over good when cold but after warmup the battery doesn't have enough power to crank the engine. Almost seems like the engine has too much cranking compression after warm.

I do have a rear mount battey kit but have grounded it good in the front and back.

What's my fix? Thanks!

------------------
88 347, Twisted wedge heads,Comp Cams 224/230 cam, 1/4=10.718 @ 123.02 mph dyno= http://www.fbody.com/members/LarryS/mustdyno.jpg

[This message has been edited by 8850 (edited 06-03-2001).]

Capri306 · 06-03-2001, 09:39 AM

You'll probably end up with a new starter and/or thicker battery cables. I think your starter is getting weak, to be honest. You should take it to a parts store and have them test it, paying particular attention to the amperage draw. Good luck.

------------------
Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online
1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73
1987 Mustang LX Notch

dinomite · 06-03-2001, 09:48 AM

What gauge re you cables? How old is your battery? Has it gone dead many (any) times?

Get some jumper cables and someone elses car; hook it up and see if you can start. If so, try a new battery before going at the starter.

8850 · 06-03-2001, 10:15 AM

I have a Summit battery relocate kit and I believe it has #2 wire but don't know for sure. I'll try the jumper cable test and see if that helps. This is a 6-8 month old battery but it has been ran down before when I had my tachometer wired wrong. Just seems strange that it turns the engine over cold but not warm.

Thanks!

joe4speed · 06-03-2001, 12:58 PM

I wound up going through three batteries thinking it was them when my starter was just plain old! I finally got a Powermaster high torque mini-starter (after 2 rebuilt starters), and haven't had a problem in three years!! Good luck!!

------------------
Joe!
1988 GT, 167,000 miles!!! 13.58@105mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website:
www.joe4speed.com
1999 Ninja ZX-6R 10.32@135mph!
1993 Olds Eighty Eight LSS 16.40@88.8mph

dinomite · 06-03-2001, 12:58 PM

That battery should be ok, try the jumper cable thing, if it works like that but just barely, i'd say get some 0 or 1 gauge welding cable.

8850 · 06-03-2001, 01:28 PM

dinomite,

Yep! The battery jumper cable thing is a good test. I don't have any jumper cables but as soon as I can buy or borrow some I'll give it a try.

That will eliminate a battery problem but if it still doesn't want to crank then I'll put the jumper cables up front at the starter relay. Then if it doesn't work it's got to be the starter.

dinomite · 06-03-2001, 01:36 PM

I hadn't even thought about that, but that would tell you whether those cables are good, good idea.

poopstang · 06-03-2001, 02:37 PM

i had the same problem it would start cold but not warm. i had a new battery so i got a new starter and that didn't help.
i found that i had a blown head gasket and water was getting in the cylinders. Everyone knows you can't compress water(especially not with a starter).

8850 · 06-03-2001, 03:00 PM

poopstang,

Wow! I hope that is not my problem.

I do have those .036 thick head gaskets that I bought special from somewhere.

DirtKing · 06-03-2001, 05:58 PM

Try putting jumpercables from your negative post to the body. If that helps you have a ground problem. Jumping better with another vehicle doesn't always mean you have a bad battery either...you may just be using their ground for help.

------------------
88LX notch, Speedpro EFI Procharged!

poopstang · 06-03-2001, 07:06 PM

my battery is in the trunk now, haven't had a problem since i fixed the head gasket.

Chevyguy · 06-04-2001, 09:29 AM

HAHAHAH
Are you sure you dont have a Chevy motor in there?? This is a classic problem with chevys and I had this problem too, usually due to the starter mounted solenoid.

However many guys still have the problem after swapping to a Ford solenoid. The headers still can greatly heat up the starter motor this can cook the windings and brushes over time. Also too much initial timing causes "negative work" and makes the car hard to start. Battery cables can also cause a problem, I had a 2 year old cable go completely short internally with no external indication of a problem, keep it simple and replace the cheap stuff first.

------------------
Frank W
90 5.0 LX coupe Daily driver. Silencer removed, K&N filter. Flexalite fan, 3 core radiator. FMS flywheel and Clutch, FMS blue wires Energy Suspension end links
88 Notch 2.3L 5 speed Parts/beater car My two Notchbacks

74 Chevy Laguna Type S-3 305 Finally fixed getting a 454 to put in garage
<A HREF="http://www.chevellepages.com/folingo" TARGET=_blank>www.chevellepages.

8850 · 06-04-2001, 10:15 AM

Chevyguy,

You may must have solved the problem. Too much initial timing. I am running without the spount connector and my timing is at 32 degrees all the time. Maybe I'll go back to the spount connector. The only problem their is my timing is variable and I don't seem to be able to control it very well. May be the only way. Thanks!

Chevyguy · 06-04-2001, 11:47 AM

Yikes 32° static timing I think we have a winner

Since your car is so fast I assumed you had a full aftermarket ign in there. Switch to a MSD ign with a retard box, that is a RPM switch that allows the timing to be set at a lower setting to start the motor, then kicks up after starting. Ive seen them in the Hardcore racing section in Summit.

------------------
Frank W
90 5.0 LX coupe Daily driver. Silencer removed, K&N filter. Flexalite fan, 3 core radiator. FMS flywheel and Clutch, FMS blue wires Energy Suspension end links
88 Notch 2.3L 5 speed Parts/beater car My two Notchbacks

74 Chevy Laguna Type S-3 305 Finally fixed getting a 454 to put in garage
<A HREF="http://www.chevellepages.com/folingo" TARGET=_blank>www.chevellepages.

8850 · 06-04-2001, 12:04 PM

I do have a Crane ignition but it does not have a timing retard. I like having my timing set 32 total without the spout connector but if it won't start that's not too good either.

06-03-2001, 06:07 AM	#1
8850 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Sugarland, TX USA Posts: 161	Starter won't crank engine after warm? My engine turns over good when cold but after warmup the battery doesn't have enough power to crank the engine. Almost seems like the engine has too much cranking compression after warm. I do have a rear mount battey kit but have grounded it good in the front and back. What's my fix? Thanks! ------------------ 88 347, Twisted wedge heads,Comp Cams 224/230 cam, 1/4=10.718 @ 123.02 mph dyno= http://www.fbody.com/members/LarryS/mustdyno.jpg [This message has been edited by 8850 (edited 06-03-2001).]

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06-03-2001, 09:39 AM	#2
Capri306 Moderator Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA Posts: 1,001	You'll probably end up with a new starter and/or thicker battery cables. I think your starter is getting weak, to be honest. You should take it to a parts store and have them test it, paying particular attention to the amperage draw. Good luck. ------------------ Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online 1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73 1987 Mustang LX Notch

06-03-2001, 09:48 AM	#3
dinomite The Dude Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 1,262	What gauge re you cables? How old is your battery? Has it gone dead many (any) times? Get some jumper cables and someone elses car; hook it up and see if you can start. If so, try a new battery before going at the starter.

06-03-2001, 10:15 AM	#4
8850 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Sugarland, TX USA Posts: 161	I have a Summit battery relocate kit and I believe it has #2 wire but don't know for sure. I'll try the jumper cable test and see if that helps. This is a 6-8 month old battery but it has been ran down before when I had my tachometer wired wrong. Just seems strange that it turns the engine over cold but not warm. Thanks!

06-03-2001, 12:58 PM	#5
joe4speed He said Member...heh, heh Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Jupiter, Florida U.S.A. Posts: 3,718	I wound up going through three batteries thinking it was them when my starter was just plain old! I finally got a Powermaster high torque mini-starter (after 2 rebuilt starters), and haven't had a problem in three years!! Good luck!! ------------------ Joe! 1988 GT, 167,000 miles!!! 13.58@105mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website: www.joe4speed.com 1999 Ninja ZX-6R 10.32@135mph! 1993 Olds Eighty Eight LSS 16.40@88.8mph

06-03-2001, 01:28 PM	#7
8850 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Sugarland, TX USA Posts: 161	dinomite, Yep! The battery jumper cable thing is a good test. I don't have any jumper cables but as soon as I can buy or borrow some I'll give it a try. That will eliminate a battery problem but if it still doesn't want to crank then I'll put the jumper cables up front at the starter relay. Then if it doesn't work it's got to be the starter.

06-03-2001, 01:36 PM	#8
dinomite The Dude Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 1,262	I hadn't even thought about that, but that would tell you whether those cables are good, good idea.

06-03-2001, 02:37 PM	#9
poopstang Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: palmbayFL Posts: 184	i had the same problem it would start cold but not warm. i had a new battery so i got a new starter and that didn't help. i found that i had a blown head gasket and water was getting in the cylinders. Everyone knows you can't compress water(especially not with a starter).

06-03-2001, 03:00 PM	#10
8850 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Sugarland, TX USA Posts: 161	poopstang, Wow! I hope that is not my problem. I do have those .036 thick head gaskets that I bought special from somewhere.

06-03-2001, 05:58 PM	#11
DirtKing Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: brooklyn center,mn,USA Posts: 169	Try putting jumpercables from your negative post to the body. If that helps you have a ground problem. Jumping better with another vehicle doesn't always mean you have a bad battery either...you may just be using their ground for help. ------------------ 88LX notch, Speedpro EFI Procharged!

06-03-2001, 07:06 PM	#12
poopstang Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: palmbayFL Posts: 184	my battery is in the trunk now, haven't had a problem since i fixed the head gasket.

06-04-2001, 09:29 AM	#13
Chevyguy Backyard Mechanic/Chemist Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Acton MA USA Posts: 435	HAHAHAH Are you sure you dont have a Chevy motor in there?? This is a classic problem with chevys and I had this problem too, usually due to the starter mounted solenoid. However many guys still have the problem after swapping to a Ford solenoid. The headers still can greatly heat up the starter motor this can cook the windings and brushes over time. Also too much initial timing causes "negative work" and makes the car hard to start. Battery cables can also cause a problem, I had a 2 year old cable go completely short internally with no external indication of a problem, keep it simple and replace the cheap stuff first. ------------------ Frank W 90 5.0 LX coupe Daily driver. Silencer removed, K&N filter. Flexalite fan, 3 core radiator. FMS flywheel and Clutch, FMS blue wires Energy Suspension end links 88 Notch 2.3L 5 speed Parts/beater car My two Notchbacks 74 Chevy Laguna Type S-3 305 Finally fixed getting a 454 to put in garage <A HREF="http://www.chevellepages.com/folingo" TARGET=_blank>www.chevellepages.

06-04-2001, 10:15 AM	#14
8850 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Sugarland, TX USA Posts: 161	Chevyguy, You may must have solved the problem. Too much initial timing. I am running without the spount connector and my timing is at 32 degrees all the time. Maybe I'll go back to the spount connector. The only problem their is my timing is variable and I don't seem to be able to control it very well. May be the only way. Thanks!

06-04-2001, 11:47 AM	#15
Chevyguy Backyard Mechanic/Chemist Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Acton MA USA Posts: 435	Yikes 32° static timing I think we have a winner Since your car is so fast I assumed you had a full aftermarket ign in there. Switch to a MSD ign with a retard box, that is a RPM switch that allows the timing to be set at a lower setting to start the motor, then kicks up after starting. Ive seen them in the Hardcore racing section in Summit. ------------------ Frank W 90 5.0 LX coupe Daily driver. Silencer removed, K&N filter. Flexalite fan, 3 core radiator. FMS flywheel and Clutch, FMS blue wires Energy Suspension end links 88 Notch 2.3L 5 speed Parts/beater car My two Notchbacks 74 Chevy Laguna Type S-3 305 Finally fixed getting a 454 to put in garage <A HREF="http://www.chevellepages.com/folingo" TARGET=_blank>www.chevellepages.

06-04-2001, 12:04 PM	#16
8850 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Sugarland, TX USA Posts: 161	I do have a Crane ignition but it does not have a timing retard. I like having my timing set 32 total without the spout connector but if it won't start that's not too good either.