Solid, Hydraulic, Roller, Non-Roller... Pros and Cons

[2FastLX]

I dropped my Canfield heads off at Woodies machine shop in Thorntown In. (he's famous) today and began discussing the buildup of the 351W for my Notchback.

When asked what I wanted to do about a cam I told him my intentions were to go with an Ed Curtis custom cam and the Crane conversion roller lifters and the guy kind of cringed. When I asked why he said he would go with a non-roller cam and save the money I'd spend for the roller conversion on something else. He said the roller cams don't seem to rev as fast as the non-roller cams do.

This guy builds a lot of NHRA engines from what I hear so he is no dummy. I'm half tempted to let him build me an engine and see what it will do on his dyno and let him have free reign at cam selection, but I'd like some input first.

It's going to be a nice-weather only street driven car so what do you think?

[Five0]

I would like to know this also.

[5cu11y]

2Fast

Have you aquired your 351 block yet? If not, or you are looking for an old one, there are a few things you can check.

The major advantage to roller is longevity. I mean years vs. years here too. If your machine will be built and left alone, then maybe roller is the way to go. On the other hand, if you plan on swapping cams and things then definitely go with non-roller. Price is considerably less, and so is availability (options). Beside that, your concern probably won't be with RPM on the 351 because of the mains and so on.

When I did the first 351W it was roller, but after the first cam change (first dyno trip), I could only afford non-roller. My peak HP was at 6300 RPM (~480).

My current 351 is 383 shortblock by Livernois. Well built, and still non-roller. You will not lose any performance w/o roller. It all depends on what you want. Your man is right, spend the hundreds you save on something else.

[2FastLX]

I already have my block. I was told it's a 1974 block, which was the last year for the thicker webs. It's already at the machine shop being cleaned now.

I think I'm going to stay non-roller and save the money. I can always switch later if the need arrises.

The guy doing the work really knows his Ford engines so I'll just trust his judgement and see what happens.

[MiracleMax]

What advantage does a roller cam have over a flat tappet cam. Properly ground, a roller will have more aggressive ramp rates which translates into quicker opening and closing events.

Typically where a roller shines over a non roller in a street application is fatter torque with the same or better peak hp (providing of course both cams, roller and flat-tappet where designed to do the same thing)

Seems to me that most hydrualic rollers are about as aggressive or maybe a bit more aggressive than a typical solid tappet cam. The down side is a lower redline, the lifters a pretty heavy for a hydraulic roller so it becomes a balancing act. If your considering an engine that is designed to operate below a 7,000 rpm redline, then a hydraulic roller is not a bad choice. Especially if your flirting with a 6500 rpm redline. Comp cams is supposed to have a hydraulic roller lifter capable of higher than 6500 rpm operation?

[2FastLX]

I think this guy was trying to say dollar for dollar the roller wouldn't make as much of a difference in power as it would if I'd put the money somewhere else. You're talking $400 for the conversion kit, then $200-$325 for the cam as opposed to about $250 for cam and lifters if I went flat tappet.

After talking to Ed Curtis tonight on the phone he recommended I go with the Crane roller conversion lifters and he likes them over any other roller conversion option. He convinced me to spend the extra money which is better for a low maintenance application.

Thanks guys.

[5cu11y]

Miracle

Your exactly right about ramping. The roller follows the steep lobes without extra wear, where the tangent point on a flat lifter/cam can get damn near the OD of the lifter. For longevity, the roller is great when you talk about steep cams. With an engine being wound up real tight though, I've found that steep cams get limited by the resulting speed of the valve. Thats where the Ti valves and tit springs come in.

Great point though.

[macx]

One thing to consider - a flat tappet cam with stiff springs for hi rpm will wear very rapidly in street use - i.e. at lower engine rpms where's there's just not enuf oil to keep hi pressure springs from pressing the lifter down thru the oil film. That's one advantage of a roller. I've recently read an article on a new lifter made by a guy in AZ (don't have it with me her) that has come up with a new material he bonds onto the lifter face that actually can be switched from cam to cam and just flat does not wear out. Also, he's developed a "flat" lifter I think with slightly raised edges that can even be used on roller type cams. He's got both solids and hydraulics. That would be the way to go - a steep ramp roller cam with these raised edge solids which are lighter than roller lifters and no parts to break. I'll try to find that info this weekend and post it to this thread. The material is so hard and smooth it withstands hi spring temps and doesn't wear the lifter or the cam lobe.

[macx]

The lifters I mentioned in the previous post are from Schubeck Racing Engine Components in Las Vegas email lifters@aol.com, website schubeck.com (although when I tried, some jerks had hacked in redirection to an adult site so I couldn't get to Schubeck's site - I emailed and told them) 702-252-0677. If you want to read the article it's in the Feb 02 issue of Mopar Action (yeah, OK, I used to have a hemi back in 66, so hate me)

[2FastLX]

Thanks for the info. I sent him an email. If he doesn't reply I'll call him and see if I can get the info to give to my builder to see what he thinks.

[macx]

They are building a new website at
www.schubeckracing.com