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#21 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Gallatin, Tn
Posts: 1,326
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Capri306, it only leaks when I fire it up, it does not need to be up to operating temp, pressure dependant is my answer. I was hoping it was the block because it was 100% gauranteed and decked, sonic tested, the full works. Houston Engine and Balancing in Houston did it and said it was all tested perfect. If the sealant doesn't work with the 95ft/lbs, then I will have the block tested again. They have a very high reputation and have never had a block come back. I wanted to say the heads because I didn't have this problem before I got them milled, but I got them tested.
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#22 |
Rat Killer
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Cold ass Ohio
Posts: 1,143
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![]() This be the stuff. The "555" is better, made by the same company. But, if you can't find it, this should get you by.
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d-Con Racing "Nothing fancy, just 347 inches of RAT POISON!" MICE need not apply..... ![]() |
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#23 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Moline Il
Posts: 901
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![]() I must have missed where you said what size bolts you are using. 95 ft./lbs is way too much for a 7/16 head bolt. I use 70 (for a 7/16) with oil between the head of the bolt and the washer. On the blind holes I use oil on the threads, and thread sealer on the ones that go in to the water jackets. Never had a problem.
Andy
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88 coupe 91 LX NMRA Pure Street 5120 |
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#24 |
Moderator
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
Posts: 1,001
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![]() I'd say it's narrowed down to the block-head interface then iff the threads aren't leaking and both the block and heads are crack- and porosity-free. That's your only other option.
p.s. iff = if and only if. ![]() I really hope you get this figured out, honestly. I can only imagine your frustration.
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Capri306, Moderator The Mustang Works Online 1979 Mercury Capri 1987 5.0L Mustang LX Notchback 1993 5.8L Eddie Bauer Bronco ![]() |
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#25 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Gallatin, Tn
Posts: 1,326
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![]() Too much torque? The engine builder said I should be good up to 100ft/lbs.??
Since I am going to do this one bolt at a time with the "555", do you think I should just go with studs?
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#26 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Staging lane
Posts: 4,337
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![]() Since the heads have been on other cars with no problems I think you block is out of whack.
I torqued my aluminum heads down to 30 and then 50 and then 70 ft lbs. I am using the same gaskets as you with ARP head bolts.
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92' LX-Big brakes, Lots and lots of suspension, GT40X heads, Ported cobra intake, stock cam, Vortech SC trim. 00' Lightning-Stock 88'CRX-13 second ego killer |
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#27 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Gallatin, Tn
Posts: 1,326
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![]() I read in 5.0 magazine just the other night, the techs torqued AFR heads on a stock block to 95.......I think I should be safe. We'll see not this weekend but next, I'll post back up and let everyone know. Thanks for all of the input.
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#28 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Moline Il
Posts: 901
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![]() I'll believe what ARP tells me before any magazine article. 95ft.lbs should only be used if it is a 1/2 inch stud, which 351w's have.
Assuming the block was decked in the proper machine, its kinda hard to screw it up without noticing. Now if someone set it up in an endmill and took cuts with a 1" cutter, thats a different story. I really doubt its the block, or the heads. I think its just bad luck. Oh yeah, and the junk fel pro head gaskets. I always use Cortecos on my N/A stuff. They are excellent gaskets, and priced real reasonably. I buy complete engine gasket sets for $70. Andy
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88 coupe 91 LX NMRA Pure Street 5120 |
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#29 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Gallatin, Tn
Posts: 1,326
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#30 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Staging lane
Posts: 4,337
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92' LX-Big brakes, Lots and lots of suspension, GT40X heads, Ported cobra intake, stock cam, Vortech SC trim. 00' Lightning-Stock 88'CRX-13 second ego killer |
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#31 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Moline Il
Posts: 901
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![]() One more thing I was thinking: Make sure theres not an extra head dowel pushed all the way up inside the head. Some times reused dowels can be real loose and when you pull the head off you might not even see it cause its all the way to the top of its bore. If the machine shop put new ones in, and theres one still stuck in the head, that will definately cause a leak. A similiar situation happened to me a few weeks ago, but it wasnt on the motor, it was on the flow bench. For awhile there I had the best flowing intake port in the country (it was sucking air beneath the head surface). I didnt notice what the problem was until I reversed the bench to exhaust and the rubber seal between the head and plate started flapping.
Andy
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88 coupe 91 LX NMRA Pure Street 5120 |
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#32 |
Rat Killer
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Cold ass Ohio
Posts: 1,143
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![]() Good call! Never thought of that!
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d-Con Racing "Nothing fancy, just 347 inches of RAT POISON!" MICE need not apply..... ![]() |
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#33 |
Domestic Rice really sucks!
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: KY
Posts: 973
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![]() Nice new avatar, Jester.
I hadn't thought of the head dowel either. Good call Andy. I'll also agree that 95 ft/lbs. is too much on a 7/16 bolt. When you take the heads back off, check your bolts. I know you said they felt good when you torqued them down, but they could still be ruined. I'd take the threaded ends of each bolt and mesh the threads together with another bolt to see how they look. I hope that makes sense. One more thing, is it leaking in the same place every time?
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#34 |
Import Slayer
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 2,241
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![]() This might be a dumb question but are the head bolts being tightened in the correct pattern?
Nobody asked yet so I thought I'd ask to eliminate the obvious.
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'82 GT 351W (.060)Comp Cams 274* Extreme Energy cam, ported & polished heads w/ 1.94/1.60 valves 10.3:1 flat top pistons,stealth intake, Mallory dizzy,Holley 750dp carb, BBK shorties,Flowmaster exhaust,C-4 with 3700 stall converter, B&M pro shifter,8.8 rear, 4:10's, subframes, electric fan, powermaster alternator, 4 core radiator. |
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#35 | ||
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Staging lane
Posts: 4,337
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92' LX-Big brakes, Lots and lots of suspension, GT40X heads, Ported cobra intake, stock cam, Vortech SC trim. 00' Lightning-Stock 88'CRX-13 second ego killer |
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#36 |
Import Slayer
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 2,241
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![]() Oooops...my bad
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'82 GT 351W (.060)Comp Cams 274* Extreme Energy cam, ported & polished heads w/ 1.94/1.60 valves 10.3:1 flat top pistons,stealth intake, Mallory dizzy,Holley 750dp carb, BBK shorties,Flowmaster exhaust,C-4 with 3700 stall converter, B&M pro shifter,8.8 rear, 4:10's, subframes, electric fan, powermaster alternator, 4 core radiator. |
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#37 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Gallatin, Tn
Posts: 1,326
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![]() Dark5.0, thanks for that and also the performance shop I talked to said yes ARP says one thing but he has never had a problem with too much torque on those bolts up to 100, I decided I'm going studs just to be on the safe side though. Like you, I have never had to torque aluminum heads down passed 70ft/lbs for a good seal.
Andy669, yes I checked that, I was wishing it was only that easy. Also checked to make sure the dowels seated all the way once in the heads, it's not stopping the head from seating at all. Studs, 555, 95ft/lbs and let is sit over night before filling it up is what I'm going to try. But as mentioned before it seems pressure dependant and I was also told these were the symptoms of a crack (leak when heated). If this doesn't work, then I think it won't leak if it's at the bottom of the river.
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#38 |
cranky old man
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Longview Texas
Posts: 683
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![]() It may not be exactally what Andy said, but my bet would be something similar to that, like a puckered headbolt hole or something. Perhaps incompatable gasket / head / block combo ?
If it can't hold coolant just starting it up and idling in the driveway then it has to be something obvious ... a large crack or a serious warp or low/high spot on the block / head. I'm curious about the leaking headbolts theory, even if you have coolant coming up past the bolt threads, that area is still sealed from the outside world by the head gasket ?? Anywho, like everybody else, I'm curious to see what ends up fixing this one, please let us know, and good luck ![]()
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Under Construction: 64 Falcon 372 cu in. stroker 1:72 rod ratio 6.250" rods (long rod), Comp Cams XE274 230/236 520/526 @ .050, Scorpion Rollers, Roush 200 irons, 10:1 Keith Blacks, Hedman long tubes, 750 Holley DP, Edelbrock Victor Jr., C4 3500 stall, gears and tires to be anounced. |
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#39 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Houston, Tx.
Posts: 3,887
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Rev
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'66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe Last edited by Rev; 03-31-2005 at 11:22 PM.. |
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#40 |
Import Slayer
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 2,241
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![]() Man...if this was me and I had this much trouble with the heads sealing, I would be so pissed off by now that I would probably weld the heads right to the block
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'82 GT 351W (.060)Comp Cams 274* Extreme Energy cam, ported & polished heads w/ 1.94/1.60 valves 10.3:1 flat top pistons,stealth intake, Mallory dizzy,Holley 750dp carb, BBK shorties,Flowmaster exhaust,C-4 with 3700 stall converter, B&M pro shifter,8.8 rear, 4:10's, subframes, electric fan, powermaster alternator, 4 core radiator. |
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