Stock to 270-300rwhp for under $2500? Suggestions?

[jmx2]

Ok...I've got an 88GT, 5 speed, with longtubes, a cat hpipe, and flowmasters. Other than that, its stock (intake, air filter, etc...stock) I have a maf conversion sitting in the garage.

Now, I'm willing to spend $2000-$2500 for heads/cam/intake/boltons only if I can get some good power out of the combo. This $2500 has to include everything I'll need...and frankly I have no idea what I need. Injectors? Rockers? Lifters? Pushrods? Gaskets? Bolts? Timing chain? What needs to be changed and what can be reused?

Anybody feel like suggesting a shopping list that fits in my budget and will put me at 280'ish+rwhp? This car wont really ever go to the drag strip so I'm not concerned with launching mods...I'm sure I'll throw some nitto dr's on though.

Jon
'88GT 14.5@95
'00CamaroSS 12.4@116

[NOS_Notch]

Best thing to do is buy used.
Get some aluminum heads for about $600
Have the exhaust side ported a bit.
Do a valve job and you should be in it for about $800
Get a cam, rockers,extrude honed intake(used...about $400...porting alone would cost that)
65 TB, 190 LPH fuel pump, 24 Lb. inj.
With installation at about $500...this would put you about $2600 bucks...and get you an honest 280 HP.
A 5-speed should go 12.30-12.50 w/ that combo.

------------------
'88 coupe...stock as a rock.
Check out http://www.burnouts.stangnet.com

11's coming soon!!!!
Heads,intake and cam are all here

[jmx2]

I'll be doing all the labor, so there will be no cost for that. I've swapped heads, oil pump, cam, intake, etc on my 2000 Camaro SS....and I'm taking a wild guess that the 5.0 will be easier to work on

Why do the rockers need to be replaced?

When you say get heads, or get an intake, does the brand or model matter much? There seem to be about 50 options out there and I'd hate to get one that sucked, and have to buy that part all over again.

When you say 280hp...you mean rwhp right? ET's mean nothing to me....dont care if it runs 14.0@106 or 13.0@106, just as long as its got the power there. It'll be driven to work and on errands, so I'm not gonna be launching it for a 12 second et

[Stang Runner]

The stock rockers are crap. For about 2,000 Holley SysteMAX II kit Comes with cam,timming chain, Intake, Heads, 350HP at the flywheel. you would need rockers, Fuel pump and Injecters it might me a bit over 2500 maybe 2700 That will make your mustang about as fast as your SS

[SaleenGTS]

Originally posted by Stang Runner:
The stock rockers are crap. For about 2,000 Holley SysteMAX II kit Comes with cam,timming chain, Intake, Heads, 350HP at the flywheel. you would need rockers, Fuel pump and Injecters it might me a bit over 2500 maybe 2700 That will make your mustang about as fast as your SS

I have some agreements, and disagreements with your post.

I do agree about the rockers bring crap. I suggest getting the FRPP 1.6 rr's, they are a good set.

Now for my disagreements.
Yes the Holley SystemMax kit is a good kit, but price went up a little bit, due to the newer heads I think...ask Rick91GT.
However, that claim for 350 fwhp is bogus. Don't get me wrong, the Intake is the best on the market, BUT the heads are no better than the GT-40's from the tests and articles I have seen. They flow about 230 cfm@.550. I think the new ones that just came out or are coming out flow around 240.
The cam is a piece too. It's lift isn't even in the heads peak. I think it lifts around .509, but the duration is in the 270's. In order to make 350 fwhp, you will need atleast 290 to the wheels, and those heads and cam won't do it. I had my car dynotuned with my combo below without my blower, and my best was 286. The TFS Intake isn't quite as good as the Holley (245 cfm vs. 260) About 5 hp less from AFM. TFS heads blow the Holleys away (257 @.500 vs. 234 @.600) and my cam is a better cam (.542/.563 vs. .509/.509) You can piece my kit together, but you wouldn't be able to get the #2 cam w/o flycutting. For the TFS SH Intake, TFS TW Heads, and the TFS #1 cam which is more like the F303 cam (.499/.510, good duration numbers though)

Here are some comparisons, and my opinion(which isn't always the best )

HOLLEY
Intake: $600-700 Flow- 257 cfm
Heads: $1100-1200 Flow- 234@.600 I
188@.600 E
Valve Sizes: 1.94/1.60
Cam: $200 Lift- .509/.509
Dur.- 276/280


TRICK FLOW
Intake: $400 Flow- 245 Street Heat
$450 Flow- 255 Track Heat
Heads: $950-1000 Flow- 257@.500 I
196@.500 E
Valve Sizes: 2.02/1.90
Cam: $140 Lift- .499/.510 #1
Dur.- 275/279
$150 Lift- .542/.563 #2
Dur.- 286/294

Holley as far as I know doesn't have the wide variety of products like TFS, making their kit a as is kind of set up, not a Holley mix and match. Although, you could get the Holley Intake, heads, and a better cam and you may be able to get 280-285 rwhp.

My buddy has the SystemMax kit. He ran a 13.3@106. Dynoed 274 rwhp. That IS NOT 350 fwhp.

Here IMO is what I think your best bet is:

TFS Heads: $1000
TFS Intake: $400-450
TFS Cam: $140-150
Rockers: $180
Rods: $100
Fuel Pump: $100
FPR: $100
Injectors: $200
Gaskets: $120

TOTAL $2400

That is extremely cheap compared to the SystemMax kit that is now about $2200. Then you have to get the rockers, fuel pump, FPR, injectors, and gaskets. That comes out to about $2720.

Another thing to think about. You won't make 290-300 rwhp with any of these combos without a good TB and MAM. That would run you another $500. If your conversion is the Cobra....get rid of it.


Also, there is no way that your stang will run with your SS, running 116 traps. The best you could do with your combo will be around 107-108 in a full weight car. Don't read those claims in Excessive Motorsports ads.

I am not trying to start a flame, I am just sick of Holley getting praised for their heads, and cams. I just know my friend was extremely disappionted.

GOOD LUCK

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Dustin
Saleenized 89 GT,428 rwhp,TFS Street Heat Intake,TFS TW Heads,TFS #2 cam,BD-11A 9 psi,FRPP 1.6 rr's,BBK 70mm TB,Pro-M 75mm Bullet,MSD 6BTM, FMS 9mm wires,BBK longtubes,BBK Short H-pipe,American Thunder cat back,3.55's

12.3@119
http://www.mustangworks.com/rides/pi...1549-slot1.jpg

[This message has been edited by SaleenGTS (edited 07-21-2001).]

[jmx2]

Thanks for the input guys! The SS puts 415rwhp down (dont ask about the slow ET) so I'm not expecting the GT to hang with it for $2500.

The MAF conversion I have is just a computer, wiring harness, and maf off a 91GT I think. Not a kit, just the whole system out of another car.

Are the stock head bolts reusable? When I see "injectors" listed I assume a maf calibrated for them is required, or is that what the FPR is for? Seems like if the maf was calibrated for the injectors, the fp could stay at whatever it was before right?

I definitly didnt want to get the systemax kit, as it seems like I'd be spending more $$$ for less performance...which is why i posted on here so I could piece together a "kit" of my own.

Are the springs that come with the Trickflow heads going to be enough for a cam I'll throw at it? What pushrod lengths are needed for the trickflow heads (or are the rockers adjustible?)

I appreciate all the input guys....I'm getting a better idea of what stuff I'll need. This stuff is WAY different than the SS. At 400+rwhp I'm still using stock rockers, stock ported heads, stock fuel pump, stock fuel injectors, no aftermarket fpr, stock maf, stock programming, etc.

[Stang Runner]

Hey SaleenGTS what heads would you say to get. I was thinking of geting the Kit but maybe I will not So you would go with the TFS heads I just Spent 1400 On An Accel DFI Kit. I want a Very good head to go with it. Thanks SaleenGTS

[Skyman]

I agree with Dustin (SaleenGTS) Go with the TFS package.

You can look at what I have. It shouldnt cost you much more than 2500 for the setup that I have and I dynoed 332rwhp with my combo. On 87 octane fuel.

It runs 12.5's and and still have a few issues to clear up with it.

Skyler

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-1989 Saleen Mustang #406-
TFS TW Heads, E-303, Edelbrock intake, 70mm TB, 73mm MAF, 24lb injectors, 1 5/8 shorties, Off Road H, 3 Chamber flows, Jaz Race seats, Back seat removed, sub-frames, Roll Cage, and a 80 shot of N20.
12.54@107.4 Motor
1.69 60'

[vande97]

firt thing i would do it get rid of that junk a$$ ss and use the money from that to blow anything off the road. after all if you were to take a stock stang and a stock ss and compare them in price the ss would cost more. take that extra money that you would use to buy the ss and put it in the stang and i bet the FORD would STOMP that SS all up and down!!!!!!!! but i guess that is just my opinion, come from a ford family

[jmx2]

332rwhp!?@ Wow...it seems everybody i've talked with has told me I'll be getting 270-280rwhp...which Im not really impressed with. How the heck did you get 332?!

vande, thanks for your totally unbiased opinion. Even if my 5.0 did 600rwhp I'd still like the SS more. Its new, got leather, the suspension is setup for autox which it kicks butt in, and puts out 415rwhp all motor with stock intake and ported stock heads. There is just something cool about that. Plus, it looks damn fine I like my mustang as well, I just recognize the different between a 13 year old car and a 1 year old car. Pros and cons for each.

[Piston]

I got 325 rwhp. Here is the Combo. I think it still could use some help on the tune.

TFS Heads Stage II ported. 275cfm @ .550
255lph Intank fuel pump.
24 lb Injectors
Edelbrock Upper/Lower Preformer intake ported to flow 275cfm.
Anderson B2 Cam (Nitrous/Blower Cam) The motor is NA though. On 1.6 RR although 1.7RR are recommened. I'm running the 1.6 cause my heads were milled and I wouldn't clear the pistons.
Adjustable Regulator by aeromotive.
Full tube Headers Hookers.
Off Road H-pipe
70mm TB
75 MAF
PMS computer which I think can be tuned more.

Things I would change would have to be the Upper/lower Intake would either be the HOlley or The TFS. Good Luck with your combo.

[wrathchild]

So what you guys are saying is that the TRick flow parts that i will be buying will satisfy me? I plan on buying Trick flow twisted wedge heads, street heat intake, stage 1 cam, 24# injectors, 70 mm TB, 73mm MAss air, 190 lph pump, 1.6 or 1.7 RR, new push rods and lifters. It will be on my stock bottom end. Will it work ok with the stock bottom end? Any piston to valve problems? Can i use stock valve covers?

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90 GT 150k on the motor never had the valve covers off, 1 5/8" headers, x-pipe, 2chamber flowmaster,fms aluminum ds, 3.55, best time on 245/45/17 2.08 60', 13.906 @ 98.98

[SaleenGTS]

Yes you will be satisfied, just make sure you buy the NEW TW's, not the old. 1.6's WILL work, 1.7's WILL NOT clear. Yes you can use stock Valve Covers BUT you will have to grind it out.

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Dustin
89 Saleen GT Sport,428 rwhp,TFS Street Heat Intake,TFS TW Heads,TFS #2 cam,BD-11A 9 psi,Crane 1.6 rr's,BBK 70mm TB,Pro-M 80mm MAF,MSD 6BTM, FMS 9mm wires,BBK longtubes,BBK Short H-pipe,American Thunder cat back,3.55's

12.3@119

http://www.mustangworks.com/rides/pictures/Listing1549-slot1.jpg

[wrathchild]

I am assuming they are new. I am buying them from jdsperformance. He told me they are shipped from Trick flow already assembled. What is it i have to grind out in the valve covers? Will the stage 1 cam yeild acceptable piston to valve clearance? Would i be able to use the stage 2 cam? Do you see any "bad" choices in my combo? Thanks for the advice.

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90 GT 150k on the motor never had the valve covers off, 1 5/8" headers, x-pipe, 2chamber flowmaster,fms aluminum ds, 3.55, best time on 245/45/17 2.08 60', 13.906 @ 98.98

[SaleenGTS]

If you stay with the stock Valve Covers, you will need to remove the oil baffle, grind off the walls it mounts on, grind out parts of the pillars inside. What I'd do is mut a thin coat of whiteout on each pillar and crank the motor through the crank, and see where it hits. You will need to do this to both sides.

Yes the TFS #1 cam will work fine, no the Stage #2 wont....it's specs are .542/.563. TFS recommends ni higher than .540 with stock pistons. you could use a Ecam and 1.7's though, as already stated in another post. Exgmguy uses them with his TW's

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Dustin
89 Saleen GT Sport,428 rwhp,TFS Street Heat Intake,TFS TW Heads,TFS #2 cam,BD-11A 9 psi,Crane 1.6 rr's,BBK 70mm TB,Pro-M 80mm MAF,MSD 6BTM, FMS 9mm wires,BBK longtubes,BBK Short H-pipe,American Thunder cat back,3.55's

12.3@119

http://www.mustangworks.com/rides/pictures/Listing1549-slot1.jpg

[Skyman]

Dont get rid of the SS. Idiots like that always pop up in posts. Ignore them.

Yes my car made 332rwhp on 87 octane.

I have all unported peices. and I think it would make more power with a Holley or Track heat intake.

Skyler

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-1989 Saleen Mustang #406-
TFS TW Heads, E-303, Edelbrock intake, 70mm TB, 73mm MAF, 24lb injectors, 1 5/8 shorties, Off Road H, 3 Chamber flows, Jaz Race seats, Back seat removed, sub-frames, Roll Cage, and a 80 shot of N20.
12.54@107.4 Motor
1.69 60'

[LX XLR8R]

my buddy is running 13.1@105 with just exhaust, elderbrock heads, b-303 w/ 1.7RR, and 3.73's..it dont take much just the right parts

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1987 black notch(ex 4 banger)
DSS 306 w/ main support...Elderbrock 6028 heads..gt-40 intake..24# injectors...70 mm tb..77 pro-m...accel 300+..mac full legnth..tremec w/ pro5oh...full MAC exhaust,off road h-pipe,long tubes, catback...ron davis radiator..subframes, control arms...CFDF II..o yea holley FPR sucks..dont buy one..
AIM=onesillynotch