? on stock heads

vande97 · 06-19-2001, 05:15 PM

Can i use the stock heads (e7te) heads off a 1990 engine on my car i have an 88 5.0? another question is can i have these heads hook up so they perfore alot better then my stock heads?? or should i just save money and buy some alum: heads???

thanks fellas

Capri306 · 06-19-2001, 08:34 PM

Your heads will work fine, but you're much better off getting some aftermarket heads. I'd suggest looking at AFRs if you need street legal heads. Fully CNC machined ports and combustion chamber, higher flow numbers than anybody else (street legal versions that is), customization from AFR available, all aluminum....mmm, aluminuminuminum....yummy.

------------------
Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online
1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73
1987 Mustang LX Notch

juiceman · 06-19-2001, 10:56 PM

save some money and do some basic porting to a set of stock heads. stock heads work well if you know what youre doing. spending 1300 on heads wount make you that much faster. why waste the money. you can do the port work yourself. it simple. and youll go faster. plenty of people go in the 11's with stock heads. and ive been doing this before all these heads were made and i had no problem with stock. oh, and any head is interchangeable from the 60's to 95. 289 to 351.

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 06-19-2001, 11:07 PM

Juiceman, what is the best stock head i can put on my 88 5.0 that i can get from a wrecker? can i use all the stock stuff if i do swap heads??????

------------------
1988 Mustang GT, T-5
3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed Air SilencerMy Stang
My Site (Not Done Yet)

2FastLX · 06-20-2001, 02:31 AM

I'm using the stock E7TE heads on my car right now. My car is surely a low 13 second car if not high 12's since the insatllation of the 3.73 gears, King Cobra clutch and traction lock rebuild.

I ported the heads myself and shaved them .030 at work. Then I took them to a shop to have the valves done and a pressure test to check for cracks. After all that I have $150 wrapped up in these heads. You just can't get a much better bang for the buck if you can do most of the work yourself.

But you could also spend $400 for a set of CNC ported stockers with valves and springs from a place in Michigan. They're supposed to flow pretty good too. I just wish I could remember the name of the company. Anyone have any Ideas? I think the name began with a G. Not sure though.

------------------
Too much to list. Best ET on the car so far with stock 2.73 gears - 13.73@102mph

Indiana Stangers Association
Buy your parts here
ICQ# 42269241

vande97 · 06-20-2001, 02:36 PM

thanks alot guys i think i will get these heads i live in michigan. i will try to find out what this place is that has the heads for 400$. I have never ported any heads before.Can you really do something wrong to hurt the heads if you dont port them right??

jimberg · 06-20-2001, 03:49 PM

You have to have a clue to port heads. Juiceman pretty much said it "stock heads work well if you know what you're doing".

TFS TW heads are about $1000, you don't have to do anything to them and they will outflow ported stock heads. You can have them ported later and get even more power. Same with Edelbrock or Holley.

$1000 dollar heads that work are a much better value than butchered $400 heads. Oh, and aluminum heads are about 60-80 lbs lighter than stock heads.

If value is the most important thing to you, are your current heads so bad that you can't just have them rebuilt and ported?

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

vande97 · 06-20-2001, 06:58 PM

ONE more question if i have all this work done to the heads will i have to go bigger headers or diffren't intake to make everthing match correctly because while i am at it i will proble have the intake done also!

BlackFly · 06-20-2001, 10:21 PM

what headers do you have now? any aftermarket performance header should be fine, being way better than stock, if you dare call those things headers. aftermarket heads are deffinitely a no concern way to go , aluminums remove weight, give great performance, go well with upgrades. stockers can flow real decently "if" ported properly, and especially if bigger valves are installed. however , yes you can make a real mess of them if you do not know what you are doing and actually hurt flow, or worse, make a hole in them by going to far.cnc ported heads are a reliable way to go for economy power, they will flow pretty good and the power will be very noticeable. if you want the best junkyard stockers for your money, try to get your hands on a pair of heads off one of those explorers with a 302 from (i think)1996. fords best stock work yet.as for porting the intakes, if you dont understand porting to do it yourself, just buy an aftermarket, youll be so much better off.the stock upper has to be cut in half to be really ported properly, do you weld aluminum? all in all , if you dont read alot about porting or someone show you , or understand the ins and outs of it, and have a bunch of tools for it your are better off with aftermarket. for you other guys who say port them yourself, i too do that, but we understand how, think of the consequences of not doing it right.

juiceman · 06-20-2001, 11:56 PM

ok heres a long one. ill try to cover it all.
first, as for porting stock heads, if you try to get brave and redesign the ports or bowls or chambers you will hurt flow a little if youre not experienced. however, there isnt much you can do to hurt stock heads as any porting will help them. you dont need experience to grind off the smog bumps in the exhaust or gasket match the ports. and these are important areas on these heads. now, like i said ive been in this before all this head hype started and we've been going fast with no problem. tfs, afr,edelb. all work but not like they should. nor are they used properly. these companies just took advantage of the market and make money. simple proof.... who here has a nice set of heads that cost them 1000+ $ and is going 12's or 11's? just about everyone. now, back in 90 we were going 12's with basic bolt ons and stock heads. no mass air stuff, heads injectors etc. they werent even out yet. so stock stuff is just as good to a point. now, the aluminum heads craze. what are the benifits of aluminum heads? more prone to damage, run hotter, sealing problems, some have bad valve geometry, and of course we pay alot for that good stuff. but hey, they sure do look cool. and they save weight. so you save 50 lbs. what does that mean to the street driver? nothing. how about the bracket racer? well in theory it will add about .05 in the qtr. and help weight transfer. about the same as a battery relocation. yes, aluminum heads are good. when used properly.
i can go into so much with this but thats another topic.
as for the best heads (stock) for anyones 302, well, there all the same. it depends on what your plans are and how much you want to do to them. my 2 favorite heads are 69 351w heads and 289 hi-po heads. both bolt on and both make power. if you want to stay in the newer years then any 87 and up head will work. get a set of cheap heads, youll be happy with them. oh and the best kick, iron make more power than aluminum anyway.

Rick 91GT · 06-21-2001, 07:26 AM

juiceman I agree and I disagree.... You will never get a set of E7's to flow like a TFS,EDELBROCK, HOLLEY or AFR no matter how much porting is done. The 289 heads although will bump compression but the ports are small as hell, smaller then a E7. True their are guys deep in the 11's with stock componets, and I commend all of those people because that is a hell of a accomplishment.

Aluminum heads do loose more heat then a cast iron head but you can run more timing, and 50psi of the front of the car if it see's track duty is a lot, combined with the battery it's 100psi, thats a lot of weight off the right place. You are correct to the street guy it really probably won't matter. But a set of Aluminum heads will make you quicker as they will add 50-75HP with the proper combo.

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! FIRST TIME OUT 12.16@111 WHEELS-UP

vande97 · 06-21-2001, 10:52 AM

thanks for all the info, I am going with you juice! i know i can save money doing it this way! i know a guy that works in a machine shop for 31 years and he is a friend of my dad, he said he will do everthing for $100 heads intake etc.. I just have to supply the guts for the heads. I cant wait to get these done i am bidding on the heads right now on ebay i might be able to get them for under $100 they come complete but i think i should fill the heads with the good stuff!

thanks alot to everyone who replyed

juiceman · 06-21-2001, 11:35 PM

hey vande97, put the best you can afford in those heads. with some basic porting and a good set of back cut valves you will get good flow. remember, heads are as good as the parts in them.
rick, i understand your points, and in theory they sound good. but in the real world it never works out. first off, iron will make more power than aluminum. as for more timing, not really. and more timing doesnt make you faster. it can make you slower. as for 50 lbs being alot at the track, well thats a matter of opinion. if .03 is alot to you then ok. and flow #'s, well ill give you this. yes it takes alot to make stock heads flow as good as most aluminums out of the box but it can and has been done. ive had stock heads flow 200 cfm. just like tfs and those others. but what makes you believe you need that much flow? do you know how much air a 302 cylinder needs? heres some theory, a 347 requires 267 cfm's of air to make 550 hp. so how much do you think a 300 hp 302 needs?
i dont guess at this. i do it. i see you have thousands of dollars in your motor already and you only go 12's. im not knocking you, 12's is fast but you didnt need to spend that much.

06-19-2001, 05:15 PM	#1
vande97 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: okemos Posts: 205	? on stock heads Can i use the stock heads (e7te) heads off a 1990 engine on my car i have an 88 5.0? another question is can i have these heads hook up so they perfore alot better then my stock heads?? or should i just save money and buy some alum: heads??? thanks fellas

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06-19-2001, 08:34 PM	#2
Capri306 Moderator Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA Posts: 1,001	Your heads will work fine, but you're much better off getting some aftermarket heads. I'd suggest looking at AFRs if you need street legal heads. Fully CNC machined ports and combustion chamber, higher flow numbers than anybody else (street legal versions that is), customization from AFR available, all aluminum....mmm, aluminuminuminum....yummy. ------------------ Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online 1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73 1987 Mustang LX Notch

06-19-2001, 10:56 PM	#3
juiceman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ny Posts: 197	save some money and do some basic porting to a set of stock heads. stock heads work well if you know what youre doing. spending 1300 on heads wount make you that much faster. why waste the money. you can do the port work yourself. it simple. and youll go faster. plenty of people go in the 11's with stock heads. and ive been doing this before all these heads were made and i had no problem with stock. oh, and any head is interchangeable from the 60's to 95. 289 to 351.

06-19-2001, 11:07 PM	#4
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	Juiceman, what is the best stock head i can put on my 88 5.0 that i can get from a wrecker? can i use all the stock stuff if i do swap heads?????? ------------------ 1988 Mustang GT, T-5 3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed Air SilencerMy Stang My Site (Not Done Yet)

06-20-2001, 02:31 AM	#5
2FastLX The Photoshop Guru Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Mecca, Indiana Posts: 1,419	I'm using the stock E7TE heads on my car right now. My car is surely a low 13 second car if not high 12's since the insatllation of the 3.73 gears, King Cobra clutch and traction lock rebuild. I ported the heads myself and shaved them .030 at work. Then I took them to a shop to have the valves done and a pressure test to check for cracks. After all that I have $150 wrapped up in these heads. You just can't get a much better bang for the buck if you can do most of the work yourself. But you could also spend $400 for a set of CNC ported stockers with valves and springs from a place in Michigan. They're supposed to flow pretty good too. I just wish I could remember the name of the company. Anyone have any Ideas? I think the name began with a G. Not sure though. ------------------ Too much to list. Best ET on the car so far with stock 2.73 gears - 13.73@102mph Indiana Stangers Association Buy your parts here ICQ# 42269241

06-20-2001, 02:36 PM	#6
vande97 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: okemos Posts: 205	thanks alot guys i think i will get these heads i live in michigan. i will try to find out what this place is that has the heads for 400$. I have never ported any heads before.Can you really do something wrong to hurt the heads if you dont port them right??

06-20-2001, 03:49 PM	#7
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	You have to have a clue to port heads. Juiceman pretty much said it "stock heads work well if you know what you're doing". TFS TW heads are about $1000, you don't have to do anything to them and they will outflow ported stock heads. You can have them ported later and get even more power. Same with Edelbrock or Holley. $1000 dollar heads that work are a much better value than butchered $400 heads. Oh, and aluminum heads are about 60-80 lbs lighter than stock heads. If value is the most important thing to you, are your current heads so bad that you can't just have them rebuilt and ported? ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

06-20-2001, 06:58 PM	#8
vande97 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: okemos Posts: 205	ONE more question if i have all this work done to the heads will i have to go bigger headers or diffren't intake to make everthing match correctly because while i am at it i will proble have the intake done also!

06-20-2001, 10:21 PM	#9
BlackFly Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: winnipeg , manitoba , canada Posts: 83	what headers do you have now? any aftermarket performance header should be fine, being way better than stock, if you dare call those things headers. aftermarket heads are deffinitely a no concern way to go , aluminums remove weight, give great performance, go well with upgrades. stockers can flow real decently "if" ported properly, and especially if bigger valves are installed. however , yes you can make a real mess of them if you do not know what you are doing and actually hurt flow, or worse, make a hole in them by going to far.cnc ported heads are a reliable way to go for economy power, they will flow pretty good and the power will be very noticeable. if you want the best junkyard stockers for your money, try to get your hands on a pair of heads off one of those explorers with a 302 from (i think)1996. fords best stock work yet.as for porting the intakes, if you dont understand porting to do it yourself, just buy an aftermarket, youll be so much better off.the stock upper has to be cut in half to be really ported properly, do you weld aluminum? all in all , if you dont read alot about porting or someone show you , or understand the ins and outs of it, and have a bunch of tools for it your are better off with aftermarket. for you other guys who say port them yourself, i too do that, but we understand how, think of the consequences of not doing it right.

06-20-2001, 11:56 PM	#10
juiceman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ny Posts: 197	ok heres a long one. ill try to cover it all. first, as for porting stock heads, if you try to get brave and redesign the ports or bowls or chambers you will hurt flow a little if youre not experienced. however, there isnt much you can do to hurt stock heads as any porting will help them. you dont need experience to grind off the smog bumps in the exhaust or gasket match the ports. and these are important areas on these heads. now, like i said ive been in this before all this head hype started and we've been going fast with no problem. tfs, afr,edelb. all work but not like they should. nor are they used properly. these companies just took advantage of the market and make money. simple proof.... who here has a nice set of heads that cost them 1000+ $ and is going 12's or 11's? just about everyone. now, back in 90 we were going 12's with basic bolt ons and stock heads. no mass air stuff, heads injectors etc. they werent even out yet. so stock stuff is just as good to a point. now, the aluminum heads craze. what are the benifits of aluminum heads? more prone to damage, run hotter, sealing problems, some have bad valve geometry, and of course we pay alot for that good stuff. but hey, they sure do look cool. and they save weight. so you save 50 lbs. what does that mean to the street driver? nothing. how about the bracket racer? well in theory it will add about .05 in the qtr. and help weight transfer. about the same as a battery relocation. yes, aluminum heads are good. when used properly. i can go into so much with this but thats another topic. as for the best heads (stock) for anyones 302, well, there all the same. it depends on what your plans are and how much you want to do to them. my 2 favorite heads are 69 351w heads and 289 hi-po heads. both bolt on and both make power. if you want to stay in the newer years then any 87 and up head will work. get a set of cheap heads, youll be happy with them. oh and the best kick, iron make more power than aluminum anyway.

06-21-2001, 07:26 AM	#11
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	juiceman I agree and I disagree.... You will never get a set of E7's to flow like a TFS,EDELBROCK, HOLLEY or AFR no matter how much porting is done. The 289 heads although will bump compression but the ports are small as hell, smaller then a E7. True their are guys deep in the 11's with stock componets, and I commend all of those people because that is a hell of a accomplishment. Aluminum heads do loose more heat then a cast iron head but you can run more timing, and 50psi of the front of the car if it see's track duty is a lot, combined with the battery it's 100psi, thats a lot of weight off the right place. You are correct to the street guy it really probably won't matter. But a set of Aluminum heads will make you quicker as they will add 50-75HP with the proper combo. ------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! FIRST TIME OUT 12.16@111 WHEELS-UP

06-21-2001, 10:52 AM	#12
vande97 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: okemos Posts: 205	thanks for all the info, I am going with you juice! i know i can save money doing it this way! i know a guy that works in a machine shop for 31 years and he is a friend of my dad, he said he will do everthing for $100 heads intake etc.. I just have to supply the guts for the heads. I cant wait to get these done i am bidding on the heads right now on ebay i might be able to get them for under $100 they come complete but i think i should fill the heads with the good stuff! thanks alot to everyone who replyed

06-21-2001, 11:35 PM	#13
juiceman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ny Posts: 197	hey vande97, put the best you can afford in those heads. with some basic porting and a good set of back cut valves you will get good flow. remember, heads are as good as the parts in them. rick, i understand your points, and in theory they sound good. but in the real world it never works out. first off, iron will make more power than aluminum. as for more timing, not really. and more timing doesnt make you faster. it can make you slower. as for 50 lbs being alot at the track, well thats a matter of opinion. if .03 is alot to you then ok. and flow #'s, well ill give you this. yes it takes alot to make stock heads flow as good as most aluminums out of the box but it can and has been done. ive had stock heads flow 200 cfm. just like tfs and those others. but what makes you believe you need that much flow? do you know how much air a 302 cylinder needs? heres some theory, a 347 requires 267 cfm's of air to make 550 hp. so how much do you think a 300 hp 302 needs? i dont guess at this. i do it. i see you have thousands of dollars in your motor already and you only go 12's. im not knocking you, 12's is fast but you didnt need to spend that much.