At my wits end...HELP!!!

Falcons Talon · 05-15-2002, 05:27 PM

O.k. You all know of my heating probs by now. I have a three row radiator, 180* thermo, black magic fan, 20/80 mix w/water wetter, new 16 lb rad cap. Not only did my car still heat up in lowest tip of texas weather, the battery also drained. I will be getting a 130v. alt to deal with the battery drain. I was warned about the drain on the battery from the elec fan. When I popped the pressure relief valve on the rad cap, I noticed the water was very slightly murky. As it topped off, I could see some debris. Does this mean what I think it means? Blown head gasket/possible warped heads??? Could this possibly be the cause of my heating probs? If not this, then what??? I need some real help here guys. What am I looking at in terms of repair? If I ever needed you guys, it's now.

Falcons Talon · 05-15-2002, 06:27 PM

Anyone???

Jeff Chambers · 05-15-2002, 06:39 PM

It definitely could be. Keep an eye on your oil to see if the dreaded milkshake appears. Also check your radiator with the car running to see if you've got any bubbles. Are you sure the thermostat is good? Could be that its not opening all the way or not at all. Good luck.

Mr 5 0 · 05-16-2002, 01:12 PM

Unfortunately, it sounds like you have a leaking (blown) head gasket.

You can get a good idea just by hooking up a simple vacuum gauge to a hose that goes directly into the intake manifold. A quick and dirty method is to use the MAP sensor connection (T-fitting required) or use the PCV hose (but it may affect your idle).

Any big fluctuation in pressure (10" hg) probably indicates a blown head gasket (or a dead cylinder) which would explain your overheating problems despite all the fixes you've already tried.

fiveohpatrol · 05-16-2002, 02:36 PM

Head gaskets can certainly make you pull your hair out before finding the problem

I had a similar problem a little over a year ago, maybe its in the archives "cooling problem from hell" and "cooling problem from hell, part deux"
The problem would come and go as it wished, so it was very hard to diagnose. I kept telling myself it was just an airpocket in the system, but i just couldnt get it out.
But then when I drained my oil, and ALOT of coolant came out before any oil, then I knew it was the head gasket.
Its really not that hard of a job to do, and it gave me the opportunity to port them out, which has helped alot with power.

Good luck with it,
-Drew

fiveohpatrol · 05-16-2002, 02:40 PM

oh yah, theres another way of testing the system too.
Go to autozone and rent a cooling system pressure tester. It hooks up to your radiator, then you pump it up to the pressure of the system when its running (16psi) and then you can look and listen for leaks without the car running. Its a very helpful tool. If its the head gasket, then you will be able to hear it coming from that area.

Falcons Talon · 05-17-2002, 11:11 AM

I'm kind of happy, and ditressed at the same time. Happy because I may finally know the heart of the problem. Distressed because I'll have to dish out some bucks and drive around the minivan for a few days. One more thing. I've noticed that I don't have any overflow or dripping leaks, yet I have to add water at least once a week. More indication of a blown head gasket?

fiveohpatrol · 05-17-2002, 11:15 AM

Yup, same thing as what happened to me.

Stop driving it NOW and get it fixed, you probably have a bunch of water in your oiling system (not good) and it will do tremendous damage if you drive it much longer as is.

Falcons Talon · 05-17-2002, 11:32 AM

ARRRGGHHHH!!! Gotta drive the mini...

Any idea (ballpark) what this is gonna cost me? I know that its going to differ due to regional area, but still...
Which head gaskets should I get? What else will I have to buy? What else can I do while I have the heads off, keeping in mind I want to keep her a daily driver.

ARRRGHHH...not the mini...

fiveohpatrol · 05-17-2002, 11:46 AM

well if you have the heads flattened by a machine shop and since they're off, you might as well go for a valve job, then I'd suspect you to spend about $200-250 for everything. Go to autozone and get Fel-pro replacement head gaskets, they're under $20 apiece and are good gaskets (unless you plan on a big blower in the future.
They will have the rest of the gaskets you need too.

Having the heads off is a great time to port them, if you can do it yourself then its really worth it. Have the machine shop inspect the valve guides as well.

dont feel bad about having to drive a mini van. I'm away at college with only my stang, and I just snapped my clutch cable last night. I have hardly any tools here either. I guess I shouldnt be comparing the repair of a clutch cable to a head gasket, but atleast you have a backup vehicle

Coupe5oh · 05-17-2002, 12:32 PM

my friend blew a head gasket also, on his 347, it made it run a bit hot, but he fixed it, and he is not the best of mechanic, just prepare for the job, and get a torque wrench, we didnt know his gasket was blown, he went from 12.2@ 113, to 13.0 106....so we checked the oil for milky stuff, sure enough......

I have to add coolant to my rad also, every now and then, not to often, i think im gonna have to pull the heads one day myself, while yours are off, if they are high mileage get new springs, and guides.....good luck, let us know how it goes.

Falcons Talon · 05-17-2002, 05:59 PM

O.k. assuming I decide to tackle this myself...I'll be needing

-Head/intake/valve cover/exhaust mani gaskets-Fel Pro(Don't they have all the needed gaskets in a kit?

-Take heads to machine shop to to clean and plane if warped
-Torque wrench

What else?

MustangGT · 05-17-2002, 06:41 PM

There is a chemical test kit you can purchase to test for carbon monoxcide getting into the cooling sytem. Another way is to probe the cooling system with a gas analyser. ( Dont put the probe into the liquid tho

)

Dave

Falcons Talon · 05-23-2002, 09:20 AM

Well, the car's been sitting in my driveway while I wait for payday, but I missed driving her so I took her for a calm drive to see if she heated up. She went to normal and built up pressure, and when I popped the hood, I could hear a small hiss coming from the passenger side of the block. Is there supposed to be any hissing when the car is turned off? It was barely noticeable, and if I wasn't listening for it, I would have missed it. More confirmation of a leaking head gasket? I haven't had the time or money to get it checked or buy anything to check it myself.

05-15-2002, 05:27 PM	#1
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	At my wits end...HELP!!! O.k. You all know of my heating probs by now. I have a three row radiator, 180* thermo, black magic fan, 20/80 mix w/water wetter, new 16 lb rad cap. Not only did my car still heat up in lowest tip of texas weather, the battery also drained. I will be getting a 130v. alt to deal with the battery drain. I was warned about the drain on the battery from the elec fan. When I popped the pressure relief valve on the rad cap, I noticed the water was very slightly murky. As it topped off, I could see some debris. Does this mean what I think it means? Blown head gasket/possible warped heads??? Could this possibly be the cause of my heating probs? If not this, then what??? I need some real help here guys. What am I looking at in terms of repair? If I ever needed you guys, it's now.

05-15-2002, 06:39 PM	#3
Jeff Chambers Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milan, OH Posts: 2,699	It definitely could be. Keep an eye on your oil to see if the dreaded milkshake appears. Also check your radiator with the car running to see if you've got any bubbles. Are you sure the thermostat is good? Could be that its not opening all the way or not at all. Good luck. __________________ Jeff Chambers 1990 Mustang GT 10.032 Seconds / 137.5 MPH 14-time Street Warrior World Record Setter CRT Performance 2001 Tropic Green Mustang GT - 12.181 / 113.2 MPH 2002 Ford F-250 Crew Cab 7.3l Power Stroke - 17.41@77.2 "There's nothing boring about a small block automatic shifting gears at 9400 rpm!"

05-16-2002, 01:12 PM	#4
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Leaky head gasket Unfortunately, it sounds like you have a leaking (blown) head gasket. You can get a good idea just by hooking up a simple vacuum gauge to a hose that goes directly into the intake manifold. A quick and dirty method is to use the MAP sensor connection (T-fitting required) or use the PCV hose (but it may affect your idle). Any big fluctuation in pressure (10" hg) probably indicates a blown head gasket (or a dead cylinder) which would explain your overheating problems despite all the fixes you've already tried.

05-16-2002, 02:36 PM	#5
fiveohpatrol I'd rather be basketweaving Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,551	Head gaskets can certainly make you pull your hair out before finding the problem I had a similar problem a little over a year ago, maybe its in the archives "cooling problem from hell" and "cooling problem from hell, part deux" The problem would come and go as it wished, so it was very hard to diagnose. I kept telling myself it was just an airpocket in the system, but i just couldnt get it out. But then when I drained my oil, and ALOT of coolant came out before any oil, then I knew it was the head gasket. Its really not that hard of a job to do, and it gave me the opportunity to port them out, which has helped alot with power. Good luck with it, -Drew __________________ NMRA O/C 9516 NA pumpgas stickshift 347 10.65@125.6, 6.73@100, 1.41 60ft

05-16-2002, 02:40 PM	#6
fiveohpatrol I'd rather be basketweaving Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,551	oh yah, theres another way of testing the system too. Go to autozone and rent a cooling system pressure tester. It hooks up to your radiator, then you pump it up to the pressure of the system when its running (16psi) and then you can look and listen for leaks without the car running. Its a very helpful tool. If its the head gasket, then you will be able to hear it coming from that area. __________________ NMRA O/C 9516 NA pumpgas stickshift 347 10.65@125.6, 6.73@100, 1.41 60ft

05-15-2002, 06:27 PM	#2
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	Anyone???

05-17-2002, 11:11 AM	#7
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	I'm kind of happy, and ditressed at the same time. Happy because I may finally know the heart of the problem. Distressed because I'll have to dish out some bucks and drive around the minivan for a few days. One more thing. I've noticed that I don't have any overflow or dripping leaks, yet I have to add water at least once a week. More indication of a blown head gasket?

05-17-2002, 11:15 AM	#8
fiveohpatrol I'd rather be basketweaving Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,551	Yup, same thing as what happened to me. Stop driving it NOW and get it fixed, you probably have a bunch of water in your oiling system (not good) and it will do tremendous damage if you drive it much longer as is. __________________ NMRA O/C 9516 NA pumpgas stickshift 347 10.65@125.6, 6.73@100, 1.41 60ft

05-17-2002, 11:32 AM	#9
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	ARRRGGHHHH!!! Gotta drive the mini... Any idea (ballpark) what this is gonna cost me? I know that its going to differ due to regional area, but still... Which head gaskets should I get? What else will I have to buy? What else can I do while I have the heads off, keeping in mind I want to keep her a daily driver. ARRRGHHH...not the mini...

05-17-2002, 11:46 AM	#10
fiveohpatrol I'd rather be basketweaving Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,551	well if you have the heads flattened by a machine shop and since they're off, you might as well go for a valve job, then I'd suspect you to spend about $200-250 for everything. Go to autozone and get Fel-pro replacement head gaskets, they're under $20 apiece and are good gaskets (unless you plan on a big blower in the future. They will have the rest of the gaskets you need too. Having the heads off is a great time to port them, if you can do it yourself then its really worth it. Have the machine shop inspect the valve guides as well. dont feel bad about having to drive a mini van. I'm away at college with only my stang, and I just snapped my clutch cable last night. I have hardly any tools here either. I guess I shouldnt be comparing the repair of a clutch cable to a head gasket, but atleast you have a backup vehicle __________________ NMRA O/C 9516 NA pumpgas stickshift 347 10.65@125.6, 6.73@100, 1.41 60ft

05-17-2002, 12:32 PM	#11
Coupe5oh Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: SanAntonio, Tx Posts: 734	my friend blew a head gasket also, on his 347, it made it run a bit hot, but he fixed it, and he is not the best of mechanic, just prepare for the job, and get a torque wrench, we didnt know his gasket was blown, he went from 12.2@ 113, to 13.0 106....so we checked the oil for milky stuff, sure enough...... I have to add coolant to my rad also, every now and then, not to often, i think im gonna have to pull the heads one day myself, while yours are off, if they are high mileage get new springs, and guides.....good luck, let us know how it goes. __________________ Police package 5spd 90 Lx, Stock original motor, 3.27grs, BM fan, fms 10.5 clutch, D&D quadrant, and adjuster, ADS chip, 180 stat, mac cai, mac h-pipe, mac subframe connectors, ASP crank pulley, ripper shifter, 26x10.5 M/T sport pros welds. 246 hp according to analyzer Race weight: 3,120 E.t-13.57 with 26x10.50's e.t. streets. 1.88 60' mph- 99.92 mph

05-17-2002, 05:59 PM	#12
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	O.k. assuming I decide to tackle this myself...I'll be needing -Head/intake/valve cover/exhaust mani gaskets-Fel Pro(Don't they have all the needed gaskets in a kit? -Take heads to machine shop to to clean and plane if warped -Torque wrench What else?

05-17-2002, 06:41 PM	#13
MustangGT Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Northern California Posts: 9	There is a chemical test kit you can purchase to test for carbon monoxcide getting into the cooling sytem. Another way is to probe the cooling system with a gas analyser. ( Dont put the probe into the liquid tho ) Dave

05-23-2002, 09:20 AM	#14
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	Well, the car's been sitting in my driveway while I wait for payday, but I missed driving her so I took her for a calm drive to see if she heated up. She went to normal and built up pressure, and when I popped the hood, I could hear a small hiss coming from the passenger side of the block. Is there supposed to be any hissing when the car is turned off? It was barely noticeable, and if I wasn't listening for it, I would have missed it. More confirmation of a leaking head gasket? I haven't had the time or money to get it checked or buy anything to check it myself.