superchargers... which one to get?
 

Hey, I've been looking through a Summit Racing catalog, expecially at the superchargers. I was thinking this would be my first mod. Which one is the best for the 5.0? As far as price, power increase, and reliability. I see the Vortech is $3k, but for $2k you can buy a Paxton, which claims 340hp and 450 torque... which sounds like enough for me. I believe there's also a PowerDyne, right? Any opinions are appreciated. Also, is it ok to run a blower (at 9psi) on a stock car (as far as bolt-ons, and engine internals)? Thanks.

Angelo

Angelo

Don't bother getting a blower unless you're gonna be using an intercooler or aftercooler. Heat, obviously will rob your engine of power - pulling down the s/c output tremendously. I've been doing alot of research myself....ATI Procharger looks good, so do the Paxton/Vortech.....except once you add the inter/after-coolers to either of these....the price is over $4k. So far, the ATI looks the best. Also, 9 psi on a stocker might be too much, unless you're not worried about killing your motor (6 psi would be best if you're stock and don't want to harm your engine). Good luck.

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'90 LX 5.0; 12K original miles (no sh*&); 3.55 gears; pulleys;Edelbrock Performer Heads; BBK shorties; MSD 6AL box w/ blaster 2 coil; Motorsport E303 cam; Pro-M 75mm MAF; BBK 70mm TB; Eibach spring kit; Southside welded subs; K&N cone filter charger; Hurst shifter; fiberglass turbo hood; A/C-less; rear seat-less; cat-less; 2 chamber Flos; Corbeau racing seats (fronts);
30# injectors; JMS Chip; 190 lb fp; TFS track heat Intake (12.299 @ 113)

You should go with a Kenne Bell. Just bolt it on and have fun. You should start with 6lbs of boost. You will love it.

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Kenne Bell supercharged stang 93LX (the perfect sleeper) Named Wheezer 11.901@117.40 on BFGs/w 1.71 60's

Reliability Vortech Hands down. 8-9psi will be fine on your stock motor. Have it tuned by someone that knows what your doing and you'll be fine.

Skyler

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-1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows.
12.55@107mph
Mustang owners get a 15% discount!
www.OJAIPCPROS.com

Go with powerdyne... at 6 or maybe 9psi. You won't be disapponted.

I am very happy and pleased with mine. No complaints, perfect sleeper...except for the lope in the idle.

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Dustin
89 GT(Saleen Clone) 392 rwhp UNTUNED(TFS Intake, spacer,Heads and #2 cam, BD-11A 9#(only boosting 6???WTF),1.6 rr's,BBK 70mm TB,FMS 70mm MAF,MSD 6BTM,FMS 9mm wires,BBK longtubes and H-Pipe,American Thunder cat back,3.55 lots more...

12.564@118.49 on street tires is my best so far. Still untuned

You will be confused after reading all of these suggestions.

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Kenne Bell supercharged stang 93LX (the perfect sleeper) Named Wheezer 11.901@117.40 on BFGs/w 1.70 60's

Dont be confused. Lets make this simple.

Vortech- Moderately priced. Basically the standard in blowers, extreamly reliable.

Paxton- Cheaper blower, known for slightly less reliability in the past.

ATI- High priced. Intercooled supercharger setup. Will make more hp w/ less boost as it cools the intake charge. Very reliable.

Powerdyne- Lower priced. Belt driver blower, silent. Yet belts have been known to break under heavy track use. More so in the past then recetly. Moderate-good reliability.

Kennebell- Roots supercharger. Makes boost very low and quick. Will not lead to as much hp in the future if you go with more mods. Good for automatics and heavy cars. I have heard reliability issues and bad customer support on these.

My opinion. Ive been looking at this stuff for some years now and have yet to hear a single complaint w/ the vortech and many with all the other brands except ATI. Ive only heard 2-3 about ati, and that is because they are hard to install. So I say go vortech and be happy and safe.

Skyler

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-1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows.
12.55@107mph
Mustang owners get a 15% discount!
www.OJAIPCPROS.com

What is going to be your main purpose of your car street or street/strip?
You gotta first ask yourself what you want the car for,then decide on the particular blower that will suite You, not what john doe says is the best one to buy.

For example:
A kenne Bell equipped car would be killer on the street as they make peak boost @2000 rpm and a ton of torque.You could walk right away from a centrifical blower(Vortech,Paxton,etc) driving on the street because it takes them much longer in the rpm range to get the boost built up.

Just a note about Procharger set-ups.
alot of people have had problems with brackets,resulting in stripped,broken belts.There is a new version of this bracket(P600b bracket-new version)that will eliminate this.

It's a 2 piece billet made bracket which is very much like the one used on the 86-93 D1 blowers.Make sure you are aware of this if you decide to go with this blower.

Me, I went with a Paxton GSS blower.It's a upgraded ball-drive blower basically.Why did I choose this? Because I wanted to be different and show people that you can make these old style blowers run hard.

Take your time in what you decide to buy,it's your money.


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http://home.dencity.com/Mustanguy/avatar.gif
Paxton Blown 87GT
ICQ#91504337

Sky couldn't have said it any better.

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Dustin
89 GT(Saleen Clone) 392 rwhp UNTUNED(TFS Intake, spacer,Heads and #2 cam, BD-11A 9#(only boosting 6???WTF),1.6 rr's,BBK 70mm TB,FMS 70mm MAF,MSD 6BTM,FMS 9mm wires,BBK longtubes and H-Pipe,American Thunder cat back,3.55 lots more...

12.564@118.49 on street tires is my best so far. Still untuned

Well yes, I am pretty confused now lol. Every one of you recommend a different supercharger! But that's how it works, you ask 20 people for suggestions, you get 20 different answers. Vortech sounds like a good one, I know they deal with imports too. There are two different S-Series blowers from them. The standard output and the high output. Does that mean the SO is 6psi, and the HO is set at 9? Cause the SO is also $2k, which is a good price. Does anyone have dyno's or ET's to back up any blowers? In the future, I would upgrade the whole exhaust system... btw, what is the stock exhaust diameter? Also, to run 9psi, what needs to be upgraded in the engine? Someone mentioned it was rough on a stock engine. Thanks guys, you are all really helpful.

Angelo

go with the new procharger that doesnt require oil return line into your oil pan. Its priced fairly, and you can add a intercooler later. 9 psi is no problem on stock motor, just watch fuel and timing.

there, that was easy...lol.

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1993 GT/AOD
'93 Mustang GT

I actually just found a web-site that had the Procharger for sale. They cost about $3100 with an i/c though, and it claimed a 85% gain. That's approx. 346hp at the flywheel. Where does the i/c sit? Is it front or side mount, or somewhere else?

Angelo

My bad, I was WAAAAY off... that calculates to 416hp to the flywheel, that's crazy! Can anyone back this up that's not affiliated with Procharger? Cause if that's true, then it's well worth the money.

Angelo

I've never heard of reliability issues with the Kenne Belle unit.

Making max boost right off idle, it's the ultimate street blower. It's not technically a "roots" blower. It's a twin screw positive displacement unit. Works pretty much the same way. Some people do not know how badass the Kenne Belle blowers can get. They have one that puts out 20psi and has a 2.2L displacement, rated for up to 2600HP.

BBK/Eaton makes/made a roots style blower for the 5.0. It was 5.0 specific, called the instacharger. It was either 5.0 or Muscle Mustang's and Fast Fords that said the BBK unit was the best quality unit they had ever tested. Ford also offers an SVO supercharger.

I've never heard of any problems with the Vortech either, but on a stock engine, you'll probably never see max boost. It will occur too high in the rpm range to be useful.

Installation: Kenne Belle, ATI, others

Quality: Vortech, ATI, Kenne Belle, Paxton, Powerdyne

Street Power: Kenne Belle, ATI, others

Strip Power: ATI, Vortech, Paxton, Kenne Belle, Powerdyne.

Sleeper: Kenne Belle, Powerdyne

Coolness Factor: ATI, Kenne Belle, Vortech, Paxton, Powerdyne

I've left out the BBK/Eaton Instacharger because I don't think they make it for the 5.0's anymore, and the Ford SVO blower, because quite frankly, I don't know enough about it. I'd be willing to bet it IS the Instacharger, though. Eaton is the OEM supplier of the Thunderbird S/C's charger.

Well Unit5302, from what you listed, it sounds like the ATI and Kenne Bell are your favorites... how does the Bell compare in price? I can't find prices on-line for them. And ATI is the Procharger kit, correct? Know anything about the claimed 85% power gain?

Angelo

The SVO is the powerdyne, which is garbage. Stick with ATI (procharger), paxton/vortech.

The power gain will depend on how many pounds of boost you run.

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1993 GT/AOD
'93 Mustang GT

Kenne Bell is my favorite. For a few reasons.

#1 No waiting for boost.
#2 Easy install, no tapping into your oil.
#3 Silent killer.
#4 Being Different.
#5 Replaces intake plenum.

The ATI has an intercooler, which is a big part of why it makes so much power. The Kenne Belle blowers are pretty competitive in price. Around 2k for a 6psi kit, 3k for an 8psi kit. I've heard you need to buy some extra's to go with it to make the kit work the best.

I've only done modest research on the blower market though, so I can't really help you much more than the basics.

Hey take a look at my ride in my sig. Certainly you don't have the heads and intake BUT with the same combo and GT 40 heads & intake it made 412 rwhp with dead cylinder and no intercooler.

I talked to Procharger rep at Gateway last week and they told me this blower wouldn't support over 550 Flywheel HP. I am already exceeding that => their equipment is engineered a little better than they are letting on.

Mike

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Live near St.Louis?
Check out Mustang Muscle and Dyno in High Ridge, MO
Check out my ride.

[This message has been edited by moosejaw (edited 05-28-2001).]

Ok, a couple of things... the ATI procharger is also self-lubricating. You are saying that the Kenne Bell is silent, but I have no idea what a supercharger sounds like. Since I have a Nissan 240sx, I've really researched turbo's, and love the sound of those. But they don't make a s/c for my car, so I never looked into them. Is there a way to explain the sound? Also, anyone know how much power the Kenne Bell makes? The 6psi kit and 8psi kit? And imports don't have this, what is the intake plenum? Thanks.

Angelo

Guess I need to get rid of the garbage in my engine bay. Just can't make any power with those little, cheap superchargers; see sig. :{
Anyway, for good reliable power, I would recommend Vortech. Seems like everyone in my car club has one. I hear nothing but good things about them. I was on a budget and got a very good deal on my SVO Powerdyne, brand new. So if money is a consideration, you may want to try it but you won't out power any of the other big three names.
By the way, I have almost 3000 miles on my PD, 19 dyno runs, and a dozen quarter mile passes without a hiccup.

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FMS/Powerdyne 6psi SC, 73mm maf, 65mm TB, Cobra u/l intake, 24lb inj, 1.7" rockers, GT-40Y aluminum heads, Steeda #19 cam, MAC 1 5/8" long-tubes, MAC 2 1/2" pro-chamber, Dynomax Super Turbo mufflers, MAC 2 1/2" chromed exhaust, BBK 255lph fuel pump, FMS aluminum drive shaft, FMS 3.55 gears, and custom chip dyno-tuned by Swanson Performance. 391.0rwhp/377.5 rwtq SAE corrected

Hey Moosejaw, do you have that ATI procharger P-1SC? That is the gear-driven, self-lubricating one. That is the s/c of interest for me. If so, then I guess you can back up their 85% power gain. How much did it cost you? And how was the install?

My blower is the older model P600 that uses engine oil. I have installed 2 P1SC units neither customer was to interested in dyno numbers though (spend all that money and no dyno?). The new P1sc is quieter than the P600 and the P600 is quieter than the old Vortech V-1.

I paid $2500 used for my blower with a 3-core intercooler.

All of ATI Hp claims are based on a stock motor. I did not have a stock configuration when I purchased my blower but I did have a common GT40 head/intake/E303 cam package. I think FRPP puts flywheel power at 340 for the GT40 longblock package w/E303. Correcting my GT-40 dyno for flywheel would net ~ 470 HP.

This would only be 38% gain but there are some factors to consider for this comparison. I did not have the intercooler hooked up, which requires air flow to work well anyway. The motor had a dead cylinder.[Number 8 cylinder lost its compression ring and part of the piston from an earlier incident and detonated itself] The ensuing detonation caused the head gasket to lift at 5000 RPM essentially ending power production at this point.

So in a worse than worse case scenario ~40% would be had. I think my numbers are very inconclusive except to show that I gained (theoretically) 130 HP with a lame horse.

I am about to do new dynos on the "new" motor in naturally aspirated and with the blower. There is really no good way to test the intercooler except with the marine cooler (like ATI did for their tests) so any blower dyno numbers are going to be conservative compared to real world road #'s.

The faster you go the more air flow to the intercooler the more effecient it is. So keep this in mind. Also the kits are not that hard to install and their belt tensioners are top notch. No slipping drive belts.


Mike

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Live near St.Louis?
Check out Mustang Muscle and Dyno in High Ridge, MO
Check out my ride.

I am thinking of getting the Kenne Bell at the end of this summer because I dont spend much time at the track and my engine is mostly stock. I heard to get it to work properly you should be running a stock crank pulley. My car has BBK underdrive pullies right now, will this be a problem?

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1992 GT 5.0L Convertible
BBK Shorties, Flowmasters, Super Chip, Mass Air, Under Drive Pullies, Hurst Shifter, Duck Tape
AIM: SmokeyDP

I have the new S-trim quite version and it's great, dyno numbers next week. My decision was based on effieciency and reliability. Paxton Novi was 2nd choice. Powerdyne is coming out with gear driven unit pretty soon and Kruger has an ultra effiecient blower(there new so I was sceptical). I would'nt be worried about an intercooler unless your sitting in traffic for a while then decide to street race, or road racing. Around here (and probably everywhere else) Vortech is mainstream, distributers, tuners, & other racers. Plus availibilty of add-on parts: braces, pulleys, power pipes, etc. All made my decision clear. Kenne bell was never a thought, who wants all that power right off the bat, keeping the tires planted at all times is hard to do even with no blower plus you run out of steam on top end. If you want to be sitting their spinning tires (and buying them faster) while the other guy is gone, buy the bell. You would think you would want boost to come on linearly like a turbo putting you on the brink of traction the whole race. Oh yeh, gas mileage & engine wear, cruising aroung at 2000-2500 rpm's, gee full boost with bell & hardly any with centrifical. It's sounds like i'm putting them down, but it's whatever your situation or combination calls for. Good luck

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90LX, T-5, Vortech V2-SQ, Holley, Twisted Wedge Stage1, X-303

Mike_W, no offence dude but you have no idea what you are talking about with the Kenne Bell... None of what is about to follow is an attack on you I just wanted to straightn out a few mis-conceptions that you and others seem to have. I have the Blowzilla with a few other mods and I personally think it is the best street blower bar none... Now I will give you the fact that it isn't the most serious race blower but that isn't to say that the average mustang can't be competive at the lower classes of racing with it...First off,when you say "who wants all that power right off the bat" well why do you think so many people like big blocks? They are all about torque and low end grunt just like the KB. Yes traction is a problem but that is a given whenever you raise the power level and it can and SHOULD be addressed... Besides it is a blast to be able to lite them up at will, and you just have to get over the idea of reving it and dumping the clutch... And I have no idea what you are talking about when you mention running out of steam at the top end... My boost gauge shows the same amount of boost from 2000-6250 rpm... And the when you state that you are always in boost at anything above 2000rpm is wrong also, you can cruise and 3000 or 4000 rpm without being in boost if you want to but as soon as you step on the gas you have full boost!!! Now obviously the final decision should be made with your intended use as the number one consideration and the KB certainly isn't for everyone, but for those that want a killer SLEEPER for the street the KB has to be a very strong consideration... Again, no flame intended but wanted to clear up a few things from someone that has one and has lived with and driven one daily for the last couple of years so really does know what they are talking about and not just passing on hearsay... GreeceLightning, whatever blower (or turbo, and I do like turbos!) you decide to go with will be a blast so do your research and then dive in and have a blast!!! http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/cool.gif

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92GT all the free stuff and a few bolt-ons, lowered with Ebiach's and Koni's, Kenny Brown subframe connectors, lower G-brace and jacking rails. BBK upper and lower control arms, polyurethane bushings all around and Ken Bell blower, ram-air, 80mm mass air, etc.

I BOUGHT A USED POWERDYNE FOR A GRAND. IT HAD TEN GRAND ON IT AND I PUT ANOTHER FIFTEEN SO FAR. IT WAS EASY TO INSTALL, ABOUT FOUR HOURS. NO OIL LINES OR OTHER STUFF. I PUT IN THE 11PSI PULLEY AND SEVEN IN CRANK WITH NO BYPASS. THIS WAS A STOCK MOTOR, AND I DONT MEAN LOOKING. THE ONLY THING CHANGED UNDER THE HOOD WAS A MSD-BTM AND REGULATOR. IT CUT 2 SECONDS OFF THE QUARTER MILE, BUT THE REAL FUN IS THE EVERYDAY DRIVING. BEST OF ALL WAS THE SMALL AMOUNT INVESTED. MONEY DICTATES ALL POWER.

To add to stangsrule statement (great post BTW). With the KB you don't have to hose clamp your vacuum lines! All vacuum accessories work as stock. Definitely the easiest of all the blowers to maintain.

Mike

------------------
Live near St.Louis?
Check out Mustang Muscle and Dyno in High Ridge, MO
Check out my ride.

Ok, so Kenne Bell sounds like a great one... does anyone know any web sites where I can either learn about these, or find pricing? Thanks.

Angelo

I'm planning on buying a s/c soon and have been researching them for a while. The Kenne Bell looks great for a street car. If you want to get more info on the web about them check out www.kenne-bell.com. Its not Kenne Bell's official website but it has some good info and some forums. One of the things I like about the Kenne Bell is that the boost is not controlled by the engine rpm, its controlled by the throttle position. So you can have full boost at ~2000 rpm, but that's only if you floor it. If you give it part throttle, you'll get part boost.
Hope this helps. No matter what you get, you're going to have fun!

Mike

The best thing to do is call them at 909-941-6646 and ask for an info packet. The packet is very complete and extremely informative. There is tons of info in it most of which would apply to any SC application, and all his info is based on hundreds and hundreds of dyno pulls... http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/cool.gif If you have any questions feel free to email me, I am not a KB expert but do have a couple of years experience with it and if I can't answer your questions you can call their tech line at 909-941-0985. Again, whatever you decide to go with I wish you the best with it. http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/wink.gif

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92GT all the free stuff and a few bolt-ons, lowered with Ebiach's and Koni's, Kenny Brown subframe connectors, lower G-brace and jacking rails. BBK upper and lower control arms, polyurethane bushings all around and Ken Bell blower, ram-air, 80mm mass air, etc.

I have been looking at getting a Kenne Bell also when I have the money. I also want a 331 stroker to go with it, hoping it will be a mean open road car. I found this page which has some good info on it for the Kenne Bell. Hope it helps. http://www.pandjspeedshop.com/public_html/belle.html

Chris

Wow, the Kenne Bell sounds like a cool unit. I think that it's awesome that boost relies on throttle position rather than rpm's. Are any of the other superchargers like that? Thanks.

If you want it for the street the Kenne Bell is the only way to go. I have taken mine off because I am going a 393 YS-trim Vortech. I love it so much that I have it sitting on the self and will not sell it. I will probably buy another mustang to put it on.

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Kenne Bell supercharged stang 93LX (the perfect sleeper) Named Wheezer 11.901@117.40 on BFGs/w 1.70 60's

By the way, nothing beats a Kenne Bell when it comes to off-idle torque. On the street you can beat cars that would kill you at the track. But, we are talking street, right?

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Kenne Bell supercharged stang 93LX (the perfect sleeper) Named Wheezer Building 393 stroker with YS-trim Vortech :-)
11.901@117.40 on BFGs/w 1.70 60's

Dam! I just read one of those KB pages and I'm sold. What does the 5 psi kit cost? 8 psi kit? Anyone know?

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Driving: 1998 F-150
Far way in Edmonton==> :(
1995 Mustang GT

Ive yet to see a KB car run better than 11's w/ heads/cam/intake and high boost. I just don't see impressive MPH #'s from them. And how long are you at low rpms? W/ my car I nail it and w/ in 1.5seconds Im at 5500rpm, so I would have full boost. And from a roll jut pick a gear and your in your boost. Sure the KB has low RPM boost, but you never use low RPM's when racing, unless you have a puny motor that can get the car upto its power band quickly.

Skyler

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-1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows.
12.55@107mph
50-175 Nitrous Works WET Kit just added.