Supercharging stock 5.0

[srv1]

roughly how much RWHP am i looking at with a 9lb ATI with ported E7's or GTp heads, 1.7's, stock cam, 65mm TB, stock intake, 24lbs, 190lph, adjustable FPR and a MSD 6AL and with the rest in my sig below. oh yeah, non-intercooled.

[93GTDIN]

without a properly tuned FMU, you'd probably be looking at a promptly blown motor. My FMU flipped and my 11 lbs ATI (intercooled) managed to put a quarter sized hole in the side of one of my pistons.

[DaveR_GT]

My guess is around 350 rwhp.

[srv1]

93, i am talking about a properly tuned system.

[RdRunnr]

You are looking at somewhere around 350-375. My buddy ran a similar setup but with a vortech s-trim and was able to run high 11's with a totally stock motor.

[srv1]

Originally posted by RdRunnr
You are looking at somewhere around 350-375. My buddy ran a similar setup but with a vortech s-trim and was able to run high 11's with a totally stock motor.

??!! holy shiat! oh yeah, i will have a girdle at the bottom too.

[RdRunnr]

I just looked up the exact combo for you. It was a 93GT, 5spd,
stock motor from throttle body to pan, blower, slicks, suspension, exhaust and a "streetable" built rear. He ran a best of 11.68 at 116 and had a 60' of 1.59 when we rented out Cecil a couple of months ago. I guess the key is in the suspension and getting the most hp you can to the ground.

[srv1]

hopefully i am going to make it out to the mod motor shootout. you gunna make it? is the mod motor shootout strictly mods only? will pushrods be there? if so, i hope this guy you mention will be there so i can see his car!

[RdRunnr]

Yep, I will definitely have to be there. Michael Johson from 5.0 magazine is doing a photoshoot on my car that weekend. I probably won't race that weekend though. I just want to hang out. A lot of us from Superstallions of the Net will be there. I am sure Christine will introduce us. If the guys car is there I will point it out to you. This year there are several classes for 5.0 cars in both the races and the car show. The 5.0 race classes are all bracket classes, so anyone really has a chance to win. Plus there are payouts both days.

[srv1]

kewl, i will see you there

[93GTDIN]

I saw 320 meet the street on the combo i have in my profile. STOCK everything. including exhaust. The reason for the shitty time is mostly that its a full weight convertible automatic. Oh and it blew up going down the track. That hurts your ET too.

[LTDHO]

I'm currently in the middle of supercharging my LTD. It has a 220fwkw 5.0. It's new power output is unknown. I hope it'll be about 320 to 350 kw at the flywheel.
As soon as it's done I'll get some pics.

[srv1]

93, how much boost are you running? all this on 93 Ford parts?

[Unit 5302]

With the stock intake, no intercooler, and if you stick with ported E7's, and the stock cam with 1.7's, I'm betting you might see 290rwhp at most.

If you dropped out the 1.7's, and the porting, you'd be looking at about 255-265rwhp.

On a stock engine, 1psi is worth about 10hp. I'm not trying to burst your bubble, but that stock intake is like running a choke on the combo. Skip the GT-40p's, port the crap out of the E7's, get a Cobra intake and you'll probably see close to 300rwhp. Either that, or you could go intercooled, and raise the boost up a little more and really make some gains.

I'm not a forced induction expert, but 350rwhp? No way in hell without an intercooler.

[1995MGTS]

First time I had my car dynoed, the guy before me had an early 90's LX with nothing but an S-trim and o/r h-pipe, the rest of the car he said was bone stock and it looked it. He showed me his dyno sheet. 320rwhp/330+rwtq (not sure on the torque but it was in the 330's). Not sure what pulley he was using on the S-trim either but it does show what a good tune can do.

So I think its possible you could hit 350rwhp with your mods and a good dyno-tune. Intercooler isn't necessary to do so. Might be safer but not mandatory. Good luck.

[Unit 5302]

Originally posted by 1995MGTS
First time I had my car dynoed, the guy before me had an early 90's LX with nothing but an S-trim and o/r h-pipe, the rest of the car he said was bone stock and it looked it. He showed me his dyno sheet. 320rwhp/330+rwtq (not sure on the torque but it was in the 330's). Not sure what pulley he was using on the S-trim either but it does show what a good tune can do.

So I think its possible you could hit 350rwhp with your mods and a good dyno-tune. Intercooler isn't necessary to do so. Might be safer but not mandatory. Good luck.

I think either he had an intercooler, other mods, or the dyno was screwed. You are talking about adding at LEAST 200hp with ~9psi on the stock cam with 1.7s, stock intake, and ported heads.

If that was the case, nobody would go N/A. You could add 130hp with a 6psi blower for $1800. When's the last time you saw a stock engined 5.0HO with a non-intercooled blower running at 6psi trap 110+? You've just said a 9psi blower is significantly more powerful than a well built EFI 347 stroker engine. A blower just isn't that efficient on a stock engine without an intercooler. Even the manufacturers don't even hint at that kind of power increase from a non-intercooled blower. You're talking power increases that an intercooled turbo would produce.

Vortech claims up to 126hp increase at 10psi on an SQ=S trim supercharger. That's 350hp on a stock 5.0. Converted to rwhp, you're looking at 290. The ATI Procharger and Vortech, both being non-intercooled are going to deliver very similar numbers. and Manufacturers like to give the best realistic numbers possible. Making 350rwhp would say that a tuner can squeeze an additional 75hp over the max claims of the manufacturer. That's about 60% more performance increase than what the manufacturer says is possible. With an intercooler, now you're talking maybe.

[1995MGTS]

Unit 5302,

I don't remember saying anyting about a 9psi supercharged stock car being more powerful than a well built 347. A guy I know from the Corral, goes by CurtC, ran a 12.9@110 with 6psi from his Powerdyne. Dynoed 361rwhp/362rwtq with 75mm pro-m, shorty header, x-pipe w/cats, cat-back, gears, and custom chip. Granted, the car is a 5.0 Cobra but he added about 110-120rwhp with 6lbs of boost. A guy in my car club in California had same mods but ran an S-trim (8lb pulley) with a power pipe (saw 10psi). 405rwhp on his set-up. He too as I recall ran in the 12's. That means he added about 150rwhp, give or take. Oh, both of these were without non-ic boost.

Anyway, I really don't think he had an aftercooler at Swanson. I also don't know what pulley he was running with the S-trim. All I know is a stock 5.0 can put down 190+rwhp and he had an o/r h-pipe. So he may have added 120-130rwhp and that's possible with the right blower and tune. Don't need an intercooler for that.

The dyno was at Swanson Performance, IMO one of the best in the business. He gets numbers out of cars that seem impossible sometimes. I have 400rwhp (different dyno but with his tune) with a 6lb Powerdyne, 7" crank pulley, powerpipe, and the mods in my sig. From ~3500rpm-5700rpm I have over 350rwtq, nice and flat. Even at my cut off at 6200 rpm, I have 310rwtq. I didn't just get that from bolting it on, it took some tuning from Danny Swanson to get it there. My blower is 850cfm capable, very small and entry level at best. It's in the tune. Unfortunetly, I dont have any track numbers to back up my latest dyno. It' coming eventually.

Maybe I'm confused but please tell me how an intercooler on a stationary dyno will make more power? If you think an S-trim can't make power without an intercooler, then you haven't seen many Vortech powered cars. I'm speaking more from the 5.0 side of house and not the modular side. The intercooled Procharger seems to be the sc of choice on that side. Check out the Corral, go to the Power Adder section and ask to see some stock S-trim dyno numbers and times.

[Unit 5302]

I've got one concept for you. They were playing dyno games with you, which is why the numbers are so high. Apparently Swanson is one of the best in the industry because he can get huge numbers (one's that don't exist) by playing with the parameters on the dyno. Stock 5.0's put down between 170rwhp and 190rwhp. Sometimes a tick more for the SD cars. Most are between 175rwhp and 185rwhp. 190rwhp is 230hp at the crank. A Cobra puts down 220rwhp. 405rwhp???? So he's making 490hp at the crank. That's a 10sec capable car dude. He shoud be trapping 125mph.

360rwhp, LOL. Dude, that's 435hp at the crank. A 6psi blower will NOT support that much power. It doesn't have the capability of flowing that much volume, regardless of state of tune. Look at his trap speed for cryin out loud. 110mph? He should be closer to 115-118mph with that kind of hp. Not only that, but his intake, and his heads are superior under boosted conditions than an HO intake and ported E7's.

The claims that an S trim can't make power? I did't make any such claims? Vortech, you know, the manufacturer of the unit. The people who did all the R&D on the unit. The people that spent millions to bring the product to market. The one's that want their product to perform as best as possible. Those are the guys who said up to 126hp from 10psi is what you should expect. I would certainly think they know how to setup their products, and how their product should perform.

A 347 stroker, say with TFS heads, a Holley intake, and a TFS #2 cam or so is going to make about 400-425hp. That's about 330-345rwhp. So, 350rwhp is more than a well built EFI 347 stroker. Where do you think all this mega HP is coming from?

An intercooler adds a lot of power, even on a stationary dyno because it cools the intake charge. Even if the car isn't moving, you've still got air being cooled by heat dissapation. Any dyno tuner worth his salt is going to have fans blowing on the front of the car anyway. Should have a pretty decent breeze, enough to evacuate hot underhood air.

[Unit 5302]

It's not like I run around this place trying to tell people their cars won't make the kind of hp people want them to. I just need some real world performance numbers to back up the claims, and a 110mph trap with 366rwhp is BS. Totally. No way of getting around it.

Sorry.

[1995MGTS]

Unit 5302,

It seems that no matter what I say, you think you know it all. A car may make 360rwhp on a dyno in perfect conditions. Once at the track, perahaps making pass after pass, he is no longer making 360rwhp, maybe less with a heat soked engine. Running 12.9@110 in a car that weighs 3500-3600lbs with driver, on street tires, is plausible with 360rwhp. There was a guy on another site posting a run of 121mph with 370rwhp. Different tracks show different results. Remember, temp, density, condition of the track, and driver all play a part in the et and mph. The only time I have run my car at the track on street tires(before pp, crank pulley--best dyno of 380rwhp/367rwtq), I started ofd running a 13.7@108 and finished with a 13.4@112 on a hot miserable day. I definitely didn't gain power that day, especially with back to back runs. I was learning how to drive my car (still have lots of learning). Could it have gone faster than 112, I think so. Good weather would have really helped. On my last pass, it was hot, my engine was hot, so was I making 380rwhp? Probably not. I know my little Powerdyne was burning to the touch so it must have been blowing nothing but hot air. Just because you plug numbers into a computer or magazine race doesn't mean you will run it. Try it sometime. Not as easy as it seems.

Sorry brother, a 6lb supercharger on a Cobra with GT-40 heads, exhaust, and maf, can and does have the ability to flow enough to make 360rwhp. Ask around. Go to dyno shops, ask them. Do real research instead of arguing on the internet. Have some facts to back up your information. Matter of fact, call Swansons or Powertrain or LaRocca's, or True Blue performance. Ask the pro's. Then again, I doubt they have your expert knowledge.

By the way, I'm just curious as to what supercharger you run? You have all this knowledge on supercharging so you must have some sort of power adder to back it up. Experience is knowledge, know what I mean.

Swanson Performance is known as one of the best not just because of the power he is able to pull from cars but how they drive after the tune. My car ran horribel before, came out running perfect and still does to this day. Ask about him on a site like the Corral. Get some real responses. It's okay if you don't take my word for it, there are others. I gaurantee Danny doesn't play games. To many tracks in So. Cal where cars can back up the dyno numbers. He races his car and other racers go to him and depend on his ability to tune their cars for max performance.

When Vortch advertises hp gains from a sc, as far as I know, they advertise what gains would be made on a stock car. A good tuner can do better than that. As the mods are added, heads, intake, cam, etc., that power will just go up.

I have read about guys with 347's making 400+rwhp. Some guys at the Corral have 306's making 340+rwhp. It's all in the combination. It's not always peak numbers that matter anyway. My friend's combo may peak at 361/362 but a guy with a good running 347 may peak less but have more power/torque under the curve and thus a faster car.

Those fans on the dyno's may make a difference with an intercooler but they don't seem to be that stong in my opinion. In tuning my combo, I have 39 dyno runs. Two different dyno's but both were a dynojet. Guess what? Both put out very similar curves and numbers. No big deviations. Dyno numbers are just numbers though. That's all I have right now. I will eventually get track numbers to back up my dyno runs. Learning to drive will definitely help me out a bit.