Synthetic Oil = Rebuild Motor!!! OHH NO

88COBRA · 10-24-2001, 09:40 PM

Hey Guys, just some info and a story for you.

My car is a 1988 5.0 with 145,000KM. No oil leaks.

Everyone tells me to switch to Synthetic Fluid, so I try it. I get some Mobile 1 Synthetic 10W 30. I put it in and noticed an improvement right away. I drove it for a week, and I noticed leaks. I thought, nothing serious. BUT it was starting to go bad, Oil Pan, front seal, rear main seal, valve covers, ect.... It seems like every gasket went bad at the same time.

Now I am screwed! I have to pull the motor to get all the damn seals out. This is not a bad thing, but now I have to save every $$$ to do this. If I am going to pull it, I am going to do it right, 306 (maybe) valve job, cam, ect...

I have searched all over the net, and everywhere I go I read that Synthetic is the best, and will actually help stop oil leaks. Well it did the opposite for me. Luckily it is almost time for storage, which I will be doing this weekend.

Anyone have any comments? Suggestions? Tips?

Ian

------------------
Ian Sim
ian@stangpower.com
1988 Mustang GT "Canadian Cobra", stock, AOD, loaded
Tons of Products! Low prices! Message Board!Visit my site:
http://www.stangpower.com

MiracleMax · 10-24-2001, 10:05 PM

Try putting in a seal conditioner. It might slow things down a bit. I've never heard of synthetic oils helping to stop leaks? It seemed to me just the opposite since synthetic oil is a bit more slippery

1BAD89 · 10-24-2001, 11:00 PM

Synthetic oil is alot thinner than conventional oil, if you burn oil, or have an oil leak, it's just going to be 5 times worse with synthetic.

------------------
-1989 GT, not stock.

-2000 Camaro SS-A4,
13.4's bone stock.

-1989 Chevy S-10, EX. Cab-383(500+hp on motor), tubbed, trick flow heads, trick flow pistons, etc... autometer phantom gauges, "built" 700R4, roll cage, lexan back window, corbeau seats, R.H.S. 5 harnesses, Fuel cell, convo pro wheels, 15x14's with 29x18.5 M/T'S on back, 15x4's on front, nitrous, and so much more!

PKRWUD · 10-25-2001, 02:16 AM

I guess the posts you read weren't very thorough, then, because it's pretty much a well known fact that after an engine has reached 25k on regular oil, it's not wise to switch. And you switched at 145k??? That's just plain nuts. Unless it has had synthetic oil since it was a baby (post break-in), NO engine should run synthetic at 145k. Unless the oil is religiously changed every 3000k, conventional motor oil will create more wear than synthetic oil will. Switching to a slicker oil that doesn't adhear to worn surfaces the way conventional oil does is just asking for trouble. Recheck all those sites you saw that advised you to switch, and if they don't also explain that it's for new engines only (as opposed to switching with a high mileage engine), tell them pitch in for your bottom end kit.

Take care,
-Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop

My teams site: Jim Porter Racing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

2FastLX · 10-25-2001, 11:18 AM

I switched to synthetic at around 100,000 miles and so far have had no leaks or oil burning and I've put over 30,000 miles on since the switch. Maybe I just got lucky.

------------------
Gunning for 12's!

Buy your parts here
ICQ# 42269241

PKRWUD · 10-25-2001, 11:37 AM

More like your engine was well taken care of. I know you!

Take care,
-Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop

My teams site: Jim Porter Racing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

Mach 1 · 10-25-2001, 02:47 PM

Peckerhead....I mean wood (

, sorry , couldnt resist, just joking)

I thinking that maybe you didnt notice that 88cobra is from canada and switched to synthetic at 145,000 kilometers, which is around 87K, or 87,000 miles, not an unreasonable mileage to swith to synthetics on a 5.0 in my opinion. I switched mine around this mileage and have no leaks that werent there before.

88cobra - its not the oils fault your seals and or motor were neglected and they need replaced, and you dont have to pull the motor to change any of the seals you mentioned. Front and rear mains are easy, as well as the rocker covers. You might have to riase the motor to change the oil pan gasket, but shouldnt have to remove it. Those cold a$$ canadien winters arent easy on gaskets.

------------------
1993 GT/AOD
'93 Mustang GT

exgmguy · 10-25-2001, 03:38 PM

Sounds like a co-inki-dink to me!!!!

I bought my car with 140,000 miles and ran for almost 2 years after that with synthetic.

I could see problems with a gummed up, un-maintained motor that now gets a thin slippery oil that gets through the cracks easier.

88COBRA · 10-25-2001, 06:10 PM

MACH: thanks for pointing out the miles to everyone, as you said that many km is not a crazy number.

You point is also very good about the winters. My car was driven in a winter (before me) and I have read that that can really hurt the gaskets.

I completely cleaned my motor top and bottom with foaming engine cleaner, works great, and I drove it today. So far so good, no leaks. I am hoping that the leaking was just a little of the synthetic left in my motor.

Ian

93CobraR · 10-25-2001, 09:38 PM

Ok, I'm going to go ahead and explain why running synthetic leaks like it does. Synthetic oil is man made and all the molucules are made the same meaning that they are all the same size, verse a regular conventional oil where all the molucules are different sizes. So if you are running conventional and it leaks just a little, only a few of the same type of molucules are leaking out and the rest won't, but if you switch to sythetic, and one fits threw and leaks then they all will due to the fact that they are all the same. I change oil for a living and picked this up along the way. So if you switch back like you did then you should be back to normal. However one thing that I would recommend is a type of engine sealer. How this works is, it's added in with the oil and it heats up and when it contacts cork gasket,ect... of any kind and hits the air where it's leaking it expands, and undrys the gasket to some measures which helps out to some extent.

------------------
87 GT, Cobra R's,GT-40 heads,Crane 2031,1.7's, Edelbrock intake, long tubes,BBK cold air, Mass air,pulleys,Pro 5.0, King Cobra,Lakewood Lift Bars,50/50's,subframes, 4.10's.
Best time 12.759
Best MPH 106.79
Best 60' 1.695

Visit my site at:
http://www.geocities.com/cobrar93_2000/MyPage.html

joe4speed · 10-26-2001, 12:49 AM

Switched at 89,000 miles no abnormal leaks here either...
I switched at 87,000 miles on the olds and the small leak it had on the rear valve cover gasket got a little worse.
I think synthetic is great!

------------------
Joe! 1988 GT, 167,000 miles!!! 13.58@105mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website:www.joe4speed.com
99 Ninja ZX-6R:10.32@135mph!
1993 Olds Eighty Eight LSS 16.40@88.8mph

egiap's 5.0 · 10-27-2001, 06:10 AM

When you switched over did you use an engine flush. The engine flush will clean most of the varnish and sludge out of motor. When using a higher priced synthetic you are getting up to 2-4 times the detergents then in regular motor oils. These detergents will work at sludge and varnish build up at seals and in rings and cause leaks untill they are clean. Amsoil oil uses an ester base stock as an seal swelling agent. I have sold Amsoil to a ranger owner with 245k on the motor and they have had no leaks. That says a lot about Amsoil and their 29 years of making synthetic oils. They where the first API approved synthetic oil and are still the best period. E-mail me and will send you a factory direct catalog. egiap@earthlink.net

------------------
Edward VanCura, Amsoil dealer. For information about amsoil synthetic oil and lubes leave me a message. Ask about preffered customer program and buy at dealer cost.

PKRWUD · 10-31-2001, 01:41 AM

My bad, I misread the mileage. I'm happy everyone is having success changing with higher mileage engines, but it's not advised. Just be careful.

Take care,
-Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop

My teams site: Jim Porter Racing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

302 LX Eric · 10-31-2001, 10:40 AM

I've been running Amsoil synthetic since I purchased my Stang over 5 years ago. Put it in at 21,500 and have had very little "residue" oil that appears to be coming from the valve cover gaskets. Again though, it is very minor - I just clean off the covers and polish them a couple times a year. Amsoil = Good stuff.

E

------------------
1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 38,000 miles

13.17 @ 106.14 mph w/ 2.138 60'

jimberg · 10-31-2001, 11:16 AM

Another possibility is that some sludge build up was helping to seal the leaks and then the synthetic started to disolve that sludge opening up those leaks. ;D

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

88COBRA · 10-31-2001, 11:50 AM

The leaks have really slowed down.

I am planning on a 331 next summer anyhow

Ian

------------------
Ian Sim
ian@stangpower.com
1988 Mustang GT "Canadian Cobra", stock, AOD, loaded
Tons of Products! Low prices! Message Board!Visit my site:
http://www.stangpower.com

429mustang · 11-01-2001, 03:10 PM

I got a motor (93 h.o.)off some guy that had around 100k miles on it, I used his short block and replaced all the gaskets. After I put it back together I've been using synthetic oil. I have a small leak somewhere on the front of the motor which seems to be getting blown on other parts by the radiator fan and the alternator + the motor burns a little. Would it hurt or help anything to switch back to regular oil, do I have to flush out the synthetic first?

------------------
86 Mustang GT w/pretty stock 93 5.0 (e-cam,pulleys,injectors, throttlebody,h-pipe,headers) Swapping out the 302 for a 514 stroker(was a 429)-cobrajet heads, solid roller cam, victor intake, TKO II trans, 3.73's w/axles&c-clip eliminaters.

topless tire fryer · 11-01-2001, 03:42 PM

I switched over at about 80,000 miles with no problems. 88Cobra, if your losing the engine next year I'd throw in some stop leak and call it good (took a 4 cyld. Cherokee I had from a quart a day habit to nothing in 1,000 miles). Course, if your switching the engine why bother to use the synthetic?

------------------
'95 Chrome Yellow GT ragtop, KN filter charger, Dynomax cat back, Accel plugs and wires, Chromed '95 Cobra R's (bought for $19.95, now 2 are warped!

).
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?1883

egiap's 5.0 · 11-01-2001, 06:12 PM

Synthetic oil will never form varnish or sludge in a motor since it doesn't come from crud. Will get to top of motor quicker and cool all moving parts more efficently. Bottom line, reduse your demand on foreign crud oil and by an American made product. Longer drain intervals means less used oil. Better for mother earth. 10 dollars lets you buy amsoil at dealer cost.

------------------
Edward VanCura, Amsoil dealer, T-1 certified. For information about amsoil synthetic oil and lubes leave me a message. Ask about preffered customer program and buy at dealer cost.

TJR · 11-01-2001, 07:46 PM

Chris (PKRWUD)- What oil Do you recommend for my engine? For the last couple of years I've been running Mobile 1 synthetic without any problems (over 89,000 miles on the clock). I just recently put in regular Castrol 10W-30 to use as a break in oil for after my head and cam swap. Should I go back to the Mobile 1 after I change my oil again or stay with a conventional 10W-30?

BTW, thanks for your help with the harmonic balancer questions. The new balancer fixed the wobbling problem.

TJ

------------------
1989 lx notch
89,000 miles
5-speed, bolt-ons, 3.73, TFS TWs, TFS Track Heat, TFS Stage 1 cam

10-24-2001, 09:40 PM	#1
88COBRA STANGPOWER.COM Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,045	Synthetic Oil = Rebuild Motor!!! OHH NO Hey Guys, just some info and a story for you. My car is a 1988 5.0 with 145,000KM. No oil leaks. Everyone tells me to switch to Synthetic Fluid, so I try it. I get some Mobile 1 Synthetic 10W 30. I put it in and noticed an improvement right away. I drove it for a week, and I noticed leaks. I thought, nothing serious. BUT it was starting to go bad, Oil Pan, front seal, rear main seal, valve covers, ect.... It seems like every gasket went bad at the same time. Now I am screwed! I have to pull the motor to get all the damn seals out. This is not a bad thing, but now I have to save every $$$ to do this. If I am going to pull it, I am going to do it right, 306 (maybe) valve job, cam, ect... I have searched all over the net, and everywhere I go I read that Synthetic is the best, and will actually help stop oil leaks. Well it did the opposite for me. Luckily it is almost time for storage, which I will be doing this weekend. Anyone have any comments? Suggestions? Tips? Ian ------------------ Ian Sim ian@stangpower.com 1988 Mustang GT "Canadian Cobra", stock, AOD, loaded Tons of Products! Low prices! Message Board!Visit my site: http://www.stangpower.com

11-01-2001, 03:42 PM	#18
topless tire fryer All show, some go 4 now! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Franklin, NH Posts: 175	I switched over at about 80,000 miles with no problems. 88Cobra, if your losing the engine next year I'd throw in some stop leak and call it good (took a 4 cyld. Cherokee I had from a quart a day habit to nothing in 1,000 miles). Course, if your switching the engine why bother to use the synthetic? ------------------ '95 Chrome Yellow GT ragtop, KN filter charger, Dynomax cat back, Accel plugs and wires, Chromed '95 Cobra R's (bought for $19.95, now 2 are warped!). http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?1883

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10-24-2001, 10:05 PM	#2
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	Try putting in a seal conditioner. It might slow things down a bit. I've never heard of synthetic oils helping to stop leaks? It seemed to me just the opposite since synthetic oil is a bit more slippery

10-24-2001, 11:00 PM	#3
1BAD89 Tubbed and Juiced Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Posts: 1,861	Synthetic oil is alot thinner than conventional oil, if you burn oil, or have an oil leak, it's just going to be 5 times worse with synthetic. ------------------ -1989 GT, not stock. -2000 Camaro SS-A4, 13.4's bone stock. -1989 Chevy S-10, EX. Cab-383(500+hp on motor), tubbed, trick flow heads, trick flow pistons, etc... autometer phantom gauges, "built" 700R4, roll cage, lexan back window, corbeau seats, R.H.S. 5 harnesses, Fuel cell, convo pro wheels, 15x14's with 29x18.5 M/T'S on back, 15x4's on front, nitrous, and so much more!

10-25-2001, 02:16 AM	#4
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	I guess the posts you read weren't very thorough, then, because it's pretty much a well known fact that after an engine has reached 25k on regular oil, it's not wise to switch. And you switched at 145k??? That's just plain nuts. Unless it has had synthetic oil since it was a baby (post break-in), NO engine should run synthetic at 145k. Unless the oil is religiously changed every 3000k, conventional motor oil will create more wear than synthetic oil will. Switching to a slicker oil that doesn't adhear to worn surfaces the way conventional oil does is just asking for trouble. Recheck all those sites you saw that advised you to switch, and if they don't also explain that it's for new engines only (as opposed to switching with a high mileage engine), tell them pitch in for your bottom end kit. Take care, -Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop My teams site: Jim Porter Racing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

10-25-2001, 11:18 AM	#5
2FastLX The Photoshop Guru Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Mecca, Indiana Posts: 1,419	I switched to synthetic at around 100,000 miles and so far have had no leaks or oil burning and I've put over 30,000 miles on since the switch. Maybe I just got lucky. ------------------ Gunning for 12's! Buy your parts here ICQ# 42269241

10-25-2001, 11:37 AM	#6
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	More like your engine was well taken care of. I know you! Take care, -Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop My teams site: Jim Porter Racing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

10-25-2001, 02:47 PM	#7
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	Peckerhead....I mean wood ( , sorry , couldnt resist, just joking) I thinking that maybe you didnt notice that 88cobra is from canada and switched to synthetic at 145,000 kilometers, which is around 87K, or 87,000 miles, not an unreasonable mileage to swith to synthetics on a 5.0 in my opinion. I switched mine around this mileage and have no leaks that werent there before. 88cobra - its not the oils fault your seals and or motor were neglected and they need replaced, and you dont have to pull the motor to change any of the seals you mentioned. Front and rear mains are easy, as well as the rocker covers. You might have to riase the motor to change the oil pan gasket, but shouldnt have to remove it. Those cold a$$ canadien winters arent easy on gaskets. ------------------ 1993 GT/AOD '93 Mustang GT

10-25-2001, 03:38 PM	#8
exgmguy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Utica, Michigan Posts: 2,631	Sounds like a co-inki-dink to me!!!! I bought my car with 140,000 miles and ran for almost 2 years after that with synthetic. I could see problems with a gummed up, un-maintained motor that now gets a thin slippery oil that gets through the cracks easier.

10-25-2001, 06:10 PM	#9
88COBRA STANGPOWER.COM Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,045	MACH: thanks for pointing out the miles to everyone, as you said that many km is not a crazy number. You point is also very good about the winters. My car was driven in a winter (before me) and I have read that that can really hurt the gaskets. I completely cleaned my motor top and bottom with foaming engine cleaner, works great, and I drove it today. So far so good, no leaks. I am hoping that the leaking was just a little of the synthetic left in my motor. Ian

10-25-2001, 09:38 PM	#10
93CobraR Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 1,575	Ok, I'm going to go ahead and explain why running synthetic leaks like it does. Synthetic oil is man made and all the molucules are made the same meaning that they are all the same size, verse a regular conventional oil where all the molucules are different sizes. So if you are running conventional and it leaks just a little, only a few of the same type of molucules are leaking out and the rest won't, but if you switch to sythetic, and one fits threw and leaks then they all will due to the fact that they are all the same. I change oil for a living and picked this up along the way. So if you switch back like you did then you should be back to normal. However one thing that I would recommend is a type of engine sealer. How this works is, it's added in with the oil and it heats up and when it contacts cork gasket,ect... of any kind and hits the air where it's leaking it expands, and undrys the gasket to some measures which helps out to some extent. ------------------ 87 GT, Cobra R's,GT-40 heads,Crane 2031,1.7's, Edelbrock intake, long tubes,BBK cold air, Mass air,pulleys,Pro 5.0, King Cobra,Lakewood Lift Bars,50/50's,subframes, 4.10's. Best time 12.759 Best MPH 106.79 Best 60' 1.695 Visit my site at: http://www.geocities.com/cobrar93_2000/MyPage.html

10-26-2001, 12:49 AM	#11
joe4speed He said Member...heh, heh Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Jupiter, Florida U.S.A. Posts: 3,718	Switched at 89,000 miles no abnormal leaks here either... I switched at 87,000 miles on the olds and the small leak it had on the rear valve cover gasket got a little worse. I think synthetic is great! ------------------ Joe! 1988 GT, 167,000 miles!!! 13.58@105mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website:www.joe4speed.com 99 Ninja ZX-6R:10.32@135mph! 1993 Olds Eighty Eight LSS 16.40@88.8mph

10-27-2001, 06:10 AM	#12
egiap's 5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Mansfield, OH. Posts: 113	When you switched over did you use an engine flush. The engine flush will clean most of the varnish and sludge out of motor. When using a higher priced synthetic you are getting up to 2-4 times the detergents then in regular motor oils. These detergents will work at sludge and varnish build up at seals and in rings and cause leaks untill they are clean. Amsoil oil uses an ester base stock as an seal swelling agent. I have sold Amsoil to a ranger owner with 245k on the motor and they have had no leaks. That says a lot about Amsoil and their 29 years of making synthetic oils. They where the first API approved synthetic oil and are still the best period. E-mail me and will send you a factory direct catalog. egiap@earthlink.net ------------------ Edward VanCura, Amsoil dealer. For information about amsoil synthetic oil and lubes leave me a message. Ask about preffered customer program and buy at dealer cost.

10-31-2001, 01:41 AM	#13
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	My bad, I misread the mileage. I'm happy everyone is having success changing with higher mileage engines, but it's not advised. Just be careful. Take care, -Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop My teams site: Jim Porter Racing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

10-31-2001, 10:40 AM	#14
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	I've been running Amsoil synthetic since I purchased my Stang over 5 years ago. Put it in at 21,500 and have had very little "residue" oil that appears to be coming from the valve cover gaskets. Again though, it is very minor - I just clean off the covers and polish them a couple times a year. Amsoil = Good stuff. E ------------------ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 38,000 miles 13.17 @ 106.14 mph w/ 2.138 60'

10-31-2001, 11:16 AM	#15
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Another possibility is that some sludge build up was helping to seal the leaks and then the synthetic started to disolve that sludge opening up those leaks. ;D ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

10-31-2001, 11:50 AM	#16
88COBRA STANGPOWER.COM Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,045	The leaks have really slowed down. I am planning on a 331 next summer anyhow Ian ------------------ Ian Sim ian@stangpower.com 1988 Mustang GT "Canadian Cobra", stock, AOD, loaded Tons of Products! Low prices! Message Board!Visit my site: http://www.stangpower.com

11-01-2001, 03:10 PM	#17
429mustang Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: westerville, OH USA Posts: 618	I got a motor (93 h.o.)off some guy that had around 100k miles on it, I used his short block and replaced all the gaskets. After I put it back together I've been using synthetic oil. I have a small leak somewhere on the front of the motor which seems to be getting blown on other parts by the radiator fan and the alternator + the motor burns a little. Would it hurt or help anything to switch back to regular oil, do I have to flush out the synthetic first? ------------------ 86 Mustang GT w/pretty stock 93 5.0 (e-cam,pulleys,injectors, throttlebody,h-pipe,headers) Swapping out the 302 for a 514 stroker(was a 429)-cobrajet heads, solid roller cam, victor intake, TKO II trans, 3.73's w/axles&c-clip eliminaters.

11-01-2001, 06:12 PM	#19
egiap's 5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Mansfield, OH. Posts: 113	Synthetic oil will never form varnish or sludge in a motor since it doesn't come from crud. Will get to top of motor quicker and cool all moving parts more efficently. Bottom line, reduse your demand on foreign crud oil and by an American made product. Longer drain intervals means less used oil. Better for mother earth. 10 dollars lets you buy amsoil at dealer cost. ------------------ Edward VanCura, Amsoil dealer, T-1 certified. For information about amsoil synthetic oil and lubes leave me a message. Ask about preffered customer program and buy at dealer cost.

11-01-2001, 07:46 PM	#20
TJR Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Bowling Green, OH Posts: 270	Chris (PKRWUD)- What oil Do you recommend for my engine? For the last couple of years I've been running Mobile 1 synthetic without any problems (over 89,000 miles on the clock). I just recently put in regular Castrol 10W-30 to use as a break in oil for after my head and cam swap. Should I go back to the Mobile 1 after I change my oil again or stay with a conventional 10W-30? BTW, thanks for your help with the harmonic balancer questions. The new balancer fixed the wobbling problem. TJ ------------------ 1989 lx notch 89,000 miles 5-speed, bolt-ons, 3.73, TFS TWs, TFS Track Heat, TFS Stage 1 cam