Tfs Stage 1 To X-303 Back To Tfs Stage 1

[Skyman]

Completely un-tuned, on BALD 225 street tires, on a 104 degree day, in a full weight car my 302 went 13.5@105.8.


Skyler

[Stroked408]

I am pretty sure if your car is a Saleen it is not s--ck I mean come on next to a 96 ragtop Mustang a Saleen has the scales screaming "one car at a time" I am not doubting your performance but 13.5's on stock tires is asking a lot of either gatorbacks or Yokohoma's or whatever Saleens came with, 13.5's is a pretty healthy launch for stock tires,especially bald ones,last I checked only bald tires that grip at the drag strip are slicks,once more not doubting you but 13.5's on bald tires is asking a lot

[Skyman]

My car was not stock, It had heads/cam/intake, but it certainly didnt have this guys setup.

Somethings majorly wrong.


Do you really have a 408?

Skyler

[Stroked408]

351W 4.030 with a 4 in ch stroke equals 408 correct,LOL seriously it is a Panhandle Performance stroked 351W(408) Victor Jr heads,Super Victor intake with a 850 AED carb,solid roller cam with .621/.627 lift with 254/260 at 050 getting rearend replaced right now and some other parts trying to get it certified for the 10's,but can't find the proper bellhousing that does not cost a fortune,what is wrong with his combo is compression is entirely too low for AFR heads,I think he might need to mill them a little to raise the compression maybe,or change that head gasket like he said could be a number of things

[Skyman]

Im sorry, you guys are ******* ignorant if you think thats half decent. Did either one of you even graduate 8th grade english?

If you say you dont know what your talking about that'd be one thing, but you come off all knowing, and you think 103mph on a 185 headed 331 is ok? C'mon. Im sorry.

Btw, Coherant complete sentences would be nice.

Skyler

[Sideways LX]

Hate to burst your bubble, 13.5@103 is nothing to sneeze at. I suggest you run a few tests on your motor, try to determine WTF is wrong with it. First off, do a compression test. With your cam/compression combo, you should be getting 180 across the board. Second, did you pull any plugs after your runs? That will help determine if you need to raise/lower the fuel pressure.

Did you assemble the motor yourself? Oil pump failure on such a fresh motor is not a common occurance. possible you wiped out a bearing already? I'm not tryin to rain on your parade here, just tryin to steer a brotha in the right direction.

On a side note: When were you at carlsbad? My buddy has his bone stock LX there, 13.9@97mph. Beat up Red LX with a blue hood.

[302 LX Eric]

I'm not bashing anyone here, but I would think that a 331 (even with 9:1 comp) with a set of 185 AFRs, good cam, etc. should be better than 13.5-13.7 @ 103. The zero oil pressure thing isn't good either. Hopefully you'll get her diagnosed and be able to get running strong.

Not to add salt to the wound, but my stock suspension, stock bottom end 302 LX has gone 106 a few times on drag radials, with very mild cam (put in wrong at 4 degrees retard), engine bearings about shot, fuel washing down two of the cylinders and some other stuff. This is meant comparison purposes, i.e. your 331 should be faster.

Good luck,
E

[Stroked408]

Sideways,I am sorry to say but no bone "stock" LX ever turned a 13 anything,you know it always makes me laugh looking at and reading these boards,because it is easy to criticize and knock someone's combo. How many of you here have ever been to a FFW or NMRA event? I have been to numerous events,I have been to FFW Houston,Ennis,NMRA at Bowling Green,and Mid Michigan talking to the guys that go fast. T hey do not share everything with you,but they will tell you what is and what is not fast,the 2 classes I really admire are Factory Stock and Trophy Stock now called Street Warrior because they do run fast with limited parts,NMRA Factory Stock car run 11's but it is with aftermarket heads and intake,they have to run stock cams,and that is "bone stock" cams and their compression is not that much over stock,but they have a heckuva lot more into the complete package than just engine parts. So what is my point use the word "stock" very carefully and get off from behind a computer and get to the track and talk to the fast guys,because we all know there are no NMRA or FFW events in California.

[Stroked408]

Ballistic raise the compression ratio when you get your car up and running so everyone can have a nice day,because this is getting to the point of being pointless,I remember reading in your post that you did want to keep it streetable and reliability. I thought the hole point of message boards like this was to help,instead of taking pot-shots and questioning about screen names,or trying to show how smart you are. I guess i am just from a different school called the "School Of Hard-Knocks". I just wonder how many LS1 owners and LT1 owners with all that compression they come from the factory with have not had any problems with those pigs? I know quite a few LS1 and LT1 owners who have had spark and knock problems with those pigs.

[HORSEMEN RACING]

Good day,
just registered this morning and read some of the post,some are quite right,some are quite wrong,and some are close,I will not comment on which one is what,like I said I just got here (LOL) but since I know Ballistic 331 personally as I do ByrneCH they are using and doing 2 entirely different approaches,could his compression be too low possibly as we all know compression equals power,could something else be bogging him down very possible,what we have not or even tried to figure it out since he will be out on float starting Saturday,Chris you forgot to mention the wacky air fuel ratio you were getting at Carlsbad,I was at Carlsbad with him this past Saturday,along with ByrneCH,so you know before you all hammer him to bad,get all the facts correct first Stroked408 you bring up good points,but some are wrong also,and last but not least remember gents the AFR is a huge head,if you do not have enough air going through them you will slow down big time,sometimes bigger is not better,especially when it comes to heads,and I think Chris has said he wishes he had gotten AFR 165,but lesson learned time to move on at least now he has a set of heads that he can build around,anyway Chris B we going to the strip or do you have to work this weekend? Chris F we will keep you posted while you are out there fighting the good fight

[91GTturbo]

Originally posted by Stroked408
it always makes me laugh looking at and reading these boards,because it is easy to criticize and knock someone's combo.

Here is a quote from 331 himself - "Well, sounds like alot of you guys on here got a lil butt hurt......I would apoligize...but no, I DO NOT THINK SO!!!" - end quote.

Has he ask for any help, NO. If he did, I'm sure we can and will help him out if he wants it. But with comments like that and coming on here and saying we should all go out and get 331's because 302's are basicly junk, he want get and sympathy from me, just criticism. I really hoped he would run better than the times he original suggested, I even said so. But we all know something is seriously wrong with his car, some have said so, why keep defending him, you know it too, or at least you should.

If he wants help from us, just ask.

[ballistic_331LX]

kiss my slow stang FivepointOH..........yeah as you all put it i have a slow stang.......as a matter of fact.....screw all you negative azzwholez........i know what i need to do to improve....my compression is probably under 9 with the ROL's its all good...........actually..we'll see. Some of you thanks for the points and concerns...the rest of you that critisize...you know where to stick the broom stick!!!!!

[Dark_5.0]

Absolutely no flames intended, but there is something wrong with your car. Look at my signature and I run a 13.7 @100mph @3000ft.

I think either your cam was installed wrong or your timing is way off. Either way I hope that you fix it.

IMO, I dont think raising your compression will solve your problem

Maybe your cam is in wrong or your car wont stay in time or something. I have been drag racing for a while so take my word for it...Somethinfg is wrong.

Accept it and PM PKRWUD, He will hook you up with the answers...He's a smart man

Good luck,
Later,

[Stroked408]

Okay this has gotten out of hand,and we all need to take a deep breath here,we all are Mustangers so let's just chill out here,okay first of all remember this is the internet,to some people might appear sarcastic or as a smart-a-- I do not think that is the intent here,I have just heard that AFR 185 heads like compression,and most engine builders I talk to suggest that you mill the heads about down to 54cc to raise the compression on a stock bottom end 302 to 10.1 or 10.5,now when you do that you change a lot of operating characteristics of the engine,so be prepared to tackle the whole thing when this comes up,I am not here to knock no ones combo,because I would not want anyone to knock mine,offer advice if I ask it which I am known to do,but please do not knock it,because I would show you the same respect come on guys we are all on the same side here and that is to blow Chevy's into the weeds and be honest gents we do not worry about SS' and Z28's we are always sizing up Vettes for the kill

[Skyman]

I agree, were all local we should all hook up and goto carlsbad sometime soon.

I was just saying somethings wrong, because something definatly is wrong and I wanted to help you get it sorted out.

You got defensive ballistic. I wasnt attacking you, I was trying to point something out to help you out.

Can't we all just get along and get our cars running good

Skyler

[Unit 5302]

Mr 5 0 has personally witnessed a "stock" 1987 Mustang 5.0 LX driven to a 13.8, basically off the showroom that day.

Anyway, there is something totally screwed in the combo. That's plain as day. I don't see any traction issues worth noting on a 13.5@103. Not the best in the world, but even with an awesome launch on a drag setup you're talking low 13's to ultra ultra high 12's. You know, the same performance a stock engined 5.0 can turn in.

I see nothing wrong with the AFR heads. The 185's don't hurt low end as much as it's being made out to be, you should really learn about them instead of using old school head design thoughts. On a 331, the effect should be even less. I'd like to know the specifications on those pistons. How much dish, how much valve relief? I can calculate your compression ratio accurately.


I see nothing wrong with the cam. It's more than enough for a standard compression 331 street motor.

[Unit 5302]

BTW, I didn't note a fuel pump type in there. I hope you're not running the stock fuel pump???

[Stroked408]

Unit5302,
I am not knocking the AFR head,I am just quoting one of the most respected engine builders in the country,and that is Ron Robart from Fox Lake Power Products,he is not a big fan of the AFR head because he says he has found problems with their flow numbers,but at the same time another reputable engine builder Ed Curtis loves the AFR head especially the 165 on stock or near stock street driven 302's,it is all a matter of personal taste and the equipment you decide to run,like Ron and both Ed told me no junk parts,they are all good,but it is some junk combos out there under people hoods,that is all I am saying, oops I just knocked someone combo LOL

[Unit 5302]

Originally posted by Stroked408
Unit5302,
I am not knocking the AFR head,I am just quoting one of the most respected engine builders in the country,and that is Ron Robart from Fox Lake Power Products,he is not a big fan of the AFR head because he says he has found problems with their flow numbers,but at the same time another reputable engine builder Ed Curtis loves the AFR head especially the 165 on stock or near stock street driven 302's,it is all a matter of personal taste and the equipment you decide to run,like Ron and both Ed told me no junk parts,they are all good,but it is some junk combos out there under people hoods,that is all I am saying, oops I just knocked someone combo LOL

The most interesting thing about respected engine builders is a lot of the time they are trying to sell you their products, or the product line they carry. If they stock a competing brand that's quality, and they make more money off it, they are going to push it.

The dyno's show the AFR 165 and 185 are good heads. So do the dozens of flowbench tests on them. They may not flow as good as the best numbers ever recorded, but I've yet to see a test where they flowed poorly.

Really all I'm trying to find out is why his intake/cam/head/stroker is making 270hp when it should be making 370hp.

[HORSEMEN RACING]

this seems to be a good thread worth talking about here. I follow the NMRA Pure Street class pretty close,and what I find so great about the class is these guys are running high 10's with a max 310 cubes,.500 max lift cams,either a long runner fuelie intake,or a dual plane carb intake and are busting off 380-400rwhp,,granted they are also running a cage,dedicated suspension,aftermarket electronics,and what not(what is a "what not?")
Let me see a engine trying to sell or push a particular product? Would that be like a Marine saying we are better than the Army? Bad comparison there sorry Army guys,but it is all a matter of taste.
I will say this and I heard it from one of the engine builders mentioned that a certain head porter well 2 certain head porters in the southeast are selling bogus equipment with flow numbers that are no where near what they advertise,and the part that really burns my *** about it,I have no way to take a head to a flow-bench to see if it is legit if I buy a set of heads from either of those 2 which I won't,and I am sure some of us here do not have that access,notice I said some,some of you all may have access to everything but a lot of us don't,so I have to take their word for it.
Moral of the story is and I have been racking my brain for a year and half with this is try to match your combo up as best you can,do not set your goals too high,that way less disappointment,and test,test,test I know everyone has heard this one"you do not race dynos and flow benches" you race cars