Track conditions

[Eric4Nitrous]

I know i'm being a post ***** but..too bad.lol I talked about overcorrecting a car in my previous post. Now i wanna talk about track conditions. Whenever you go to the track i'm sure you see people out there walking around with their heat guns and such. What are they doing you ask? their seeing what the temp of the track surface is to get the right suspenion tune on their car. If you go out to the track starting line and it's 90+ degrees outside and the sun is beating down on the track it's probably pretty hot. When i look at the track surface i look to see if it's peeling up when it's hot. If that's the case, then you know that the track isn't very good. If it's cool and it isn't peeling up, then the track should be pretty good. But track conditions for the most part have to do with how hot it is and so forth. Some of them are rough and some are smooth but a rough track is a whole lot rougher when it's hot and converesly, it's smoother when it's cool. Why you might ask? Here's why.

On a rough racetrack, when you hit a bump on a hot day it magnifies the problem. If the track is hot and crappy, then the rough part of it is even going to be rougher. Which will in turn make the tire break loose quicker. Then your either spinning or shaking the tires, and by the time you hit the next bump, your car will get compeletly out of groove. This is why when you go to an older racetrack you'll see cars make a violent move towards the middle of the track.

So you have to go out and take a look before every run to know what to expect and to make changes to the car that will suit you. And it also tells you how aggressive you need to be. At times you need to be more aggressive with a tricky track, what i mean by that is you have to get it up on the tires really fast so you can sort of drive through the deal. I hope this helps some of you. I know that it has helped me.

[PKRWUD]

That's excellent advice, too, but it's also something that you should do with someone more experienced who can show you the ropes. I take my Fluke 65 with me to every race, although I use it to find which cylinder is leaning out more than the others, or to check the tire temp when he comes off the track (really hot tire = too much spinning = too low a gear). We do check the track before every race, and make our final adjustments then. Track condition, which is always changing, is critical to understand in all types of racing.


Good post, Eric. You're 2 for 2!



Take care,
~Chris

[ultraflo]

Originally posted by PKRWUD
I take my Fluke 65 with me to every race, although I use it to find which cylinder is leaning out more than the others...

What kind of temps do you record monitoring the cylinders on the sprint car? ...and where exactly are you pointing the gun? At idle, I'm usually around 700+ degrees.

I've been using a digital EGT on the #7 cylinder and have seen as high as 1500+ degrees, normally in the 1400's though... I've been wanting to buy a heat gun, and the more uses that can be uncovered for it, the more I feel I need one Not that using one for tuning the motor would seem all that effective, but I'd like to hear more about it.

I'd like to keep a log of the track and tire temps on each run in my notes next year.... the more info I have to look back on at the end of the year the better.

This is the first year I've ever kept a log book, though I only kept track of shock, strut, and clutch settings, tire psi, fuel and timing maps, fuel psi, bottle psi, how many passes are on the tires, tranny, and motor, and, of course, the timeslip info...

I'd like to log the weather and track conditions next year. Which reminds me... do either of you guys (or anyone else for that matter) use weather stations at all?

-Ryan

[Eric4Nitrous]

Oh yes the weather station is my best friend. I use it all the time. Especially when it's hot outside and i need to know the humidity. Because hot air and a nitrous car don't mix.lol So when i know the temps and such i can tune accordingly. Their very helpful.

[ultraflo]

Two questions for ya bro...

what weather station do you use?

what general guidelines, according to weather conditions, do you follow for tuning with nitrous? (add/sub. fuel, add/sub. timing, for example)

[PKRWUD]

Originally posted by ultraflo
Which reminds me... do either of you guys (or anyone else for that matter) use weather stations at all?

-Ryan

LOL. We monitor the tide chart. Really. The track we race at the most is 150 yards from the surf, and at high tide, the track stays tackier, and at low tide, it's more apt to go dry-slick. So, we do our basic set-up after checking the tide charts to see where they're going to be while we're racing.

Take care,
~Chris

[PKRWUD]

Originally posted by ultraflo
What kind of temps do you record monitoring the cylinders on the sprint car? ...and where exactly are you pointing the gun? At idle, I'm usually around 700+ degrees.

I've been using a digital EGT on the #7 cylinder and have seen as high as 1500+ degrees, normally in the 1400's though... I've been wanting to buy a heat gun, and the more uses that can be uncovered for it, the more I feel I need one Not that using one for tuning the motor would seem all that effective, but I'd like to hear more about it.

I'd like to keep a log of the track and tire temps on each run in my notes next year.... the more info I have to look back on at the end of the year the better.

This is the first year I've ever kept a log book, though I only kept track of shock, strut, and clutch settings, tire psi, fuel and timing maps, fuel psi, bottle psi, how many passes are on the tires, tranny, and motor, and, of course, the timeslip info...

I actually use it more for adjusting the throttle plates at idle and off idle. I aim the laser at the header pipe about 1-2 inches from the head, for each cylinder, several times during the first 5 to 6 minutes after we fire it in the pits. Cylinders 1 & 2 (small block Chevy) rarely get hotter than 200 degrees, while the middle two on each side get to 550 degrees in 3 minutes. Cylinders 7 & 8 run around 450 degrees. Again, this is at no more than 2200 rpms, and we run straight methanol.

Since we use a hilborn injection, we have 8 throttle blades which have to be synchronized, and you can tell when they're off because the temps will be different.

We also use the gun to read tire temps. If they're more than 150 degrees when he comes off the track, we're running too low a gear (usually 6.86's), and I will swap in a set of 6.76's (Winters quick change).

As far as keeping a log, you really have to. We record our shocks, stagger, where we blocked the frame, how many turns we put into the torsion bars, how much fuel we went out with, and how much we came back with. How far out the right rear tire was from the body, air pressures, gears, etc. Then we note the track condition, the tide, and how we did. In theory, this will make future races easier to set up for. But, the one factor that never gets charted is how many people came by and convinced the driver something needed to be changed.

other advantages of having the Fluke 65 is the ability to know exactly what temp a t-stat opens at, or how accurate a temp gauge is.

Best of all, you can always claim the coldest beer from 6 feet away!

Take care,
~Chris

[PKRWUD]

One more thing, as far as temps go. Keep in mind that our cooling system isn't stock. The water pump is driven straight off the crank, and pumps water into each side of the block. There are then 4 hoses that come off the four corners of the intake, and are each return lines to the radiator:



In this picture, you can see the water pump, the inlet fitting on the right side of the block, and two of the four return hose nipples (at the front corners of the intake).



Take care,
~Chris

[Eric4Nitrous]

Ryan I use a computech Drag race weather station. You can get it through jegs. I paid $79.99 for it. Now for my tuning strategies..i walk out onto the track to see how sticky it is. If i feel that it's gonna take alot of hp then i'll usually add more fuel/timing. But if it's not real sticky/poor traction then i'm gonna take fuel/timing out. Usually i can about tell how much hp the track will handle by watching other cars and see what their doing. My tune-up on my motor changes constantly. I just go by the weather/humidity and check the track and make adjustments accordingly.

[Dark_5.0]

I have an altitude density meter......Talk about depressing it usually reads over 4000ft.

Most people here dont bother with the weather station cause its always the same 100 degrees and 10-20% humidity.

Excellent tips Eric.

[Conman]

Originally posted by PKRWUD

Best of all, you can always claim the coldest beer from 6 feet away!

Damn, I gotta get me one of those

[ultraflo]

Thanks guys... and thanks for sharing the pics Chris My dad had a Hillborn mech. FI setup he sold a while back that looked like it was from the 60's compared to the FI setup you guys run on the sprint car, lol.

[Agent_4573]

I think e-town is somewhere between 200-500 feet above sealevel. so its cool.

The only problem is the last time i went we were doing some bracket eliminations and were supposed to get 3 runs before the dial in. Time got cut short and i got 1 run before eliminations started. Of course i got to do this run at 1030 in the morning, 36 degrees outside and the 7-10 second cars hadn't run yet so there was less than no rubber on the track. My time trial 60 foot was 2.8 seconds. So i dial in and of course break out cuz this time i got traction and actually launched.... ok so this didn't really have to do with a post but i had to rant for a while....