NO2 Questions from a beginner

[xxxBlakexxx]

Guys:

I have no experience with N02. But, I am thinking I would like to give it a try. My car needs to be kept as a daily driver, but I like the fact that with N02 you can get the added power when you really want it.

If I go with it, I want it to be completely safe and do it right! I am thinking about a 75 or 100 boost max...or even 50 or 75.

1 - I hear the dry kits are the safest. Is this true? What system would you recomend?

2 - What would be my total investment?

3 - Can someone with modest mechanical abilities install a system?

4 - What other upgrades do I need to support the added power? I assume, none really based on info I have been reading as long as I keep my boost reasonable.

5 - Is my chip junk with N02 (course, it may be anyway)? Do I need a custom program with N02? Doesn't my timing have to be changed?

6 - I know I need to go with "colder" spark plugs. How are these plugs affected with normal driving?

7 - How much quicker would the car be? 1/4 mile, trap speed, and 0 - 60? Any ideas? Can N02 be used for a little boost on the highway for passing power?

I am sorry for all the dumb questions, but I have to start somewhere. I keep reading articles by experts who swear NO2 is completely safe if done correctly and you stay within the limits.

Thanks!

[04S/CStallion]

Ok with Nitrous. I had a 00 Camaro Z28 and added a 100 shot NOS kit to it. I loved it!! But the major concern on this is use it very very VERY conservatively, IE when your about to get beat in a race, no other time is a good time, if ur looking for an extra boost on the highway get another idea. And no the dry kits are more dangerous. Wet kits in my opinion are more safe for your engine because it is adding extra fuel to you mixture to ensure more that is not going to burn too lean and fry or POP ur engine. From my experience I hear a lot of people get too comfortable with Nitrous and start upping the shot size, too be safe stay 100 and smaller. Make sure you have a fuel shut off switch incase ur fuel pressure drops below and certain PSI. Yes your can install a nitrous kit with a drill a few wrenches, wire strippers and crimp tools, thats about all it takes. Never let it run too long, I.E. dont let it continuously spray for more than 16 seconds, if you haven't completed a race by then you have lost and give it up. I'll say it again use it very conservatively, dont go filling ur bottle up every other day cause you keep using it all. Get a purge valve!!!. I think this all answered ur questions. Oh usually people with a 100 shot gain about a full second in the 1/4 maybe a tenth or two less. Bigger full pump always adds to the safety of using nitrous, anything to ensure that ur fuel is going to be buring just right or a little to rich, anytime running too lean is extremely bad, any detonation is extremely bad. Im not sure about the plugs issue, I just kept using my stock ones. My ET times with my camaro all i had was exhaust on street parellis w/o the shot I ran a 12.8 with the shot I ran a 11.9, just with exhaust and a 100 shot. Damn this was long.

[04S/CStallion]

Oh yeah yes ur chip is gonna be junk if you use nitrous. Anything that advances ur timing DONT USE I.E. IAT mods or chips. I think the formula is you need to retard your timing 3 degrees everytime you add a 25 shot over 50, but if you stick with a 100 your computer can do all that as long as u don't have a chip or IAT mod.

[xxxBlakexxx]

I have a sut-off switch for my chip, but I will most likely toss it if I go with nitrous to avoid any potnial problems. Unless, I can rig the switch to automatically be turned-off whenever the notrous is on...but you have to re-start the car to reset the chip. Again, the chip will most likely be tossed (sold or whatever).

Thanks for the response, please keep the comments rolling. I want to learn as much as possible.

Just for reference, if I were to have a good, safe system and had it professionally installed, how $ am I looking at? Any ideas?

[91LX2Bfast]

In terms of bottom end damage, just as 04S/CStallion said a wet kit is safer. But considering you have a '00 GT, with a wet system you'll have to worry about fuel puddling in your intake manifold and causing a backfire that'll blow the manifold to pieces. So you'll find that a lot of racers who run wet kits eventually switch to the aluminum Bullitt intake. Another non-dry option is the NOS noszle kit. Its actually a direct port setup, but it is a pricey kit.
I know a fellow that has been running a 125 dry shot (Zex kit) on his non-pi 4.6L motor while at the track for years with no problems. He has an upgraded fuel pump, adjustable FPR, and runs a little high octane gas. Given that, I don't see a dry 75 shot being a problem on 93 octane. I would run one step colder copper plugs for up to 75 shot, and 2 step colder for 100-150.

[xxxBlakexxx]

What is the impact of running colder plugs when not pushing nitrous?

Originally posted by xxxBlakexxx
What is the impact of running colder plugs when not pushing nitrous?

Nothing that I know of. Your spark is just burning a little colder, is about all. I run plugs that are two steps colder than stock on my '90 GT. I have a 150hp dry kit and love it. I rarely use it on the street. Once in a blue moon to give someone a serious thrill ride...or back when I had my stock motor in there & I was a little younger...I used to set up races against old muscle cars with big blocks & me on the juice. But I mainly just use it at the track. The fuel cut off switch that people keep mentioning is usually included in all dry kits. I'm not that familiar with wet kits...but I'd imagine they would have something similar...that takes some of the guess work out of setting up your fuel system and provides a bit of protection for your motor. DEFINITELY get a bigger fuel pump...one or two steps colder plugs...retard your timing 2 degrees for every 50hp of nitrous...and invest in an aftermarket ignition to help burn up all that extra fuel that the nitrous allows into the combustion chamber. You could also look into an ignition system that has a timing retard function built into the box...or a seperate timing computer that is compatible. That way...when the nitrous solenoids are activated...your timing is automatically retarded to your designated setting. Good luck...and let us know what you end up doing.

[xxxBlakexxx]

Simi Stang:

Thanks for the advice. That was really the kind of specifics that I was looking for, though, ultimately I'de like to find a 4.6 guy with a good set up that can point me towards a specific system.

OK, here is what I have learned (from here and from articles):

1 - No2 is safe if done right.
2 - Dry kits are safe, simple, and less expensive as long as you take the right precautions.
3 - Don't get carried away with using it.
4 - You need to use colder plugs. These plugs do not affect performance when not using the juice.
5 - To avoid blowing up your motor, you need to be able to shut-off your fuel if pressure drops...fuel shut-off. A larger volume fuel pump might be recomended.
6 - Timing needs to be retarded. The amount depends on how much boost. Obviously, retarding the timing will affect performance when not running ther juice. Will a custom chip do this trick? Can someone help me a little more with this area?
7 - 100 hp boost is probably the max to use to be safe and allow some margin.

I should add that I do have the C&L tru-flow pipe. I bought it cheap. Mostly, I liked the look with my other mods, but it has a spot to inject dry NO2. I am leaning towards a dry kit at this time.

I really need to get a better understanding of the whole timing issue and just how to do this before I move forward.

Thanks for the help guys!

[ponyexpress289]

is NO2

Originally posted by xxxBlakexxx
Simi Stang:

Thanks for the advice. That was really the kind of specifics that I was looking for, though, ultimately I'de like to find a 4.6 guy with a good set up that can point me towards a specific system.

OK, here is what I have learned (from here and from articles):

6 - Timing needs to be retarded. The amount depends on how much boost. Obviously, retarding the timing will affect performance when not running ther juice. Will a custom chip do this trick? Can someone help me a little more with this area?

I really need to get a better understanding of the whole timing issue and just how to do this before I move forward.

Thanks for the help guys!

xBlakex - I would recommend a dry system, for sure. Hopefully some 4.6 guys will chime in on this thread...but the 'power adders' is pretty dead lately, so don't count on it. I explained the timing retard function at the end of my previous thread. I'll try to go into a little more detail for ya. I would definitely get a larger fuel pump and an aftermarket iginition from MSD or Crane Cams. You can get an ignition box with a built in timing retard...or a seperate retard box. Once the box is hooked up CORRECTLY, all you have to do is pop in a different 'pill' (like on a shift light). These pills...have the number of degrees that you want to retard your timing written right on it...2...4...6...you get the picture. Although some ignition boxes have little dials (like a rev limiter dial) that you can set with a flat head screw driver. If you are still not sure what you want...or need check out the MSD & Crane websites. You could also call up the MSD or Crane Cams techline and explain to them what you want out of an ignition box and that you are going to be using nitrous, etc. I run a seperate MSD timing computer that connects to my Crane Fireball HI-6 ignition box, and to my nitrous solenoids. Don't worry, these things come with directions and are not that difficult to install. As mentioned before...the easiest way to hook up the retard function is to connect the retard box to the nitrous solenoid wires. When the solenoids are activated for the nitrous, this automatically triggers the timing retard computer. The timing is immediately retarded as many degrees as the pill you have in states...and walla! You have a functioning...retarding nitrous system. Hope this helps some. Let me know if you have anymore questions. PM me if you want.

[xxxBlakexxx]

Simi:

That was a very retarded, I mean, intelligent response. Thank you very much for the clarity with this issue. That makes complete sense!

So I guess I am looking at an ignition system, complete dry kit, and a larger fuel pump. About how much are these ignition systems?

[PWR_RYD93]

Colder heat range spark plugs tend to load up (fuel foul) at idle and light thottle. Typically you want to run the hottest plug you can get away with (i.e. no detonation). With the amount of N2O you're talking about... one heat range colder is more than enough. You shouldn't have any driveability problems with only one range colder. I run 3 steps colder because of my high blower pressure and my plugs load up if I idle around too much. You should only need to retard your timing 3-4 degrees for that small shot. Rule of thumb is 2 degrees per 50 HP shot. And you'll probably need to reduce your plug gaps to 0.035 - 0.040" to avoid spark blow out. IMO - the dry system will be easier for you to get right.

Originally posted by PWR_RYD93
And you'll probably need to reduce your plug gaps to 0.035 - 0.040" to avoid spark blow out. IMO - the dry system will be easier for you to get right.

With a 100 shot, as long as you get the ignition xBlakex...you don't need to close up your spark plug quite that much. I spoke with the NOS techline guys and they said you can get away with running .050 as long as you have a more powerful spark from an aftermarket ignition. .050 is what I run with my Crane HI-6...and haven't had any problems what so ever.
As far as prices for the ignition systems...just check out Crane Cams or MSD's websites. http://msdignition.com/
http://cranecams.com/ I tried to copy the links to the specific part#'s description on the MSD website...but it just kept linking me back to their home page...so I'll list the part#s for you. MSD part# PN 8980 is the seperate timing computer that I use in cojunction with my HI-6. You could get a Crane HI-6 or MSD 6AL box for around $150...and then use the PN 8980 along with it for the nitrous retard. I believe the PN 8980 is around $100.
Not sure how much this box runs...but the MSD 6B TM PN 6462 has got the timing control built into the box. Less headache on the install...and it won't take up as much room in your engine compartment or the inside of your car for the install. Just do a search on the MSD website for the part#s I've listed. Good luck.

[PWR_RYD93]

Simi Stang you are probably right. But from what I've personally seen with my car on the dyno, opening the spark plug gap only gains a few horsepower. However, spark blow out costs dozens of horsepower. I guess I'd open them up right to the edge if I was a class racer, but I'm not.

I hear ya PWR_RYD. The thing is I drive my car around, just on motor...probably 95% of the time. I rarely use nitrous except at the track...or for an occasional quick thrill ride. So I wanted to open up the gap as much as I could, to get the most out of my combo when on motor.

[xxxBlakexxx]

This has been a real educaton guys! Thanks!

[explicitone]

you dont need anything to cut off the fuel if the pressure drop

what he is talking about is a fuel pressure saftey switch it shuts off the nitrous should your fuel pressure drop not the fuel


last thing GET A WINDOW SWITCH it will save your motor in case of a missed shift or a bog

never use the nitrous under 3k rpm and dont hit the limiter both cause cause you to see your rods on a dry kit and blow you intake manifold with a wet kit

[xxxBlakexxx]

I have been told by someone actually (and I don't remember) that the nitrous should only run during WOT. Is this true? I believe I heard that there is a switch that you can attach to the throttle that will activate the nitrous when the system is on.

It works something like this: You turn on the nitrous while at a stop. You accelerate, then as soon as you are at WOT, the nitrous starts by itself. Do you know anything about this?

[explicitone]

Originally posted by xxxBlakexxx
I have been told by someone actually (and I don't remember) that the nitrous should only run during WOT. Is this true? I believe I heard that there is a switch that you can attach to the throttle that will activate the nitrous when the system is on.

It works something like this: You turn on the nitrous while at a stop. You accelerate, then as soon as you are at WOT, the nitrous starts by itself. Do you know anything about this?

yes i have a wot switch
yes they good to have

[xxxBlakexxx]

I put this same question in MOD MADNESS:

What gears are recomended for a nitrous equipped car? 3.73 or 4.10's?