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VERY dissapointed with these 2....
Ok about 2 weeks ago I installed my Black Magic Electric fan. Today I put on my Stewart water pump to help with the cooling. I took it for a ride through the city with the A/C on and it still ran hot, even got up to about 230* on the autometer gauge. It's only about 90* outside today and will get much warmer thoughout the summer. Why is this thing still running so hot? I have a 180* thermostat in it. Anybody have any ideas as to what I can do to help with teh cooling besides an aluminum radiator? Any help is appreciated. Ohh also, I thought about going back to my stock waterpump pulley. Is that even going to help any?
Chris ------------------ 1987 LX, rebuilt 306, Mac shorty headers 1 5/8, 2 1/2" Mac off road h-pipe, 2 1/2" 2 Chamber Flowmasters cat-back, Mac underdrive pullies, 3.55, K&N, Tremec 3550, King Cobra Clutch, Steeda Tri-Ax, Autometer gauges, White face gauges, blue silicone radiator hoses, Steeda Clutch Adjuster Kit. Best times: 2.331 60ft, 9.966 @ 71.069 1/8 mile, 15.491 @ 91.846 1/4 mile at 4000 ft. elevation on street tires |
My 347stroker has been running upwards around 240 in 75 degree weather. That is with a perma-cool fan and 3core radiator. My uncle runs stock cars and he told me to cut the center out of my thermostat. So I did and now it runs 160-190. I love it!
------------------ 347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, A9P Computer, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley Fuel Regulator, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 79mm Mass Air Unit, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors |
Smokedawg, wouldn't that almost be the same as running without a thermostat in the car? I've heard good and bad things about doing that.
Chris |
As an alternative, you could use a high flow 160 degree thermostat. Also, Redline Water Wetter and a 75%/25% water/antifreeze mix helps. An aluminum radiator helps, although a high efficiency brass/copper does have better thermal transfer properties. Get rid of the underdrive pulleys, if you are using them.
My 2cents. ------------------ Russ L '91 LX Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles. |
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As FOROTA said. I did leave the outside so that there is restriction there. But I am S.O.L if I want heat in the winter. But this car wont get driven in the winter anyways
------------------ 347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, A9P Computer, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley Fuel Regulator, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 79mm Mass Air Unit, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors |
I'D FOLLOW NO SLP POK'S ADVICE,I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM WITH MY MUSTANG,SO I WENT AHEAD AND ISTALLED A 160 DEGREE THERMO AND FLUSHED THE RADIATOR,PRBOLEM SOLVED
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Sounds like everybody is pretty much saying drop down on the thermostat. Will the 160* stat help keep the temp down, but at the same time not keep the car in open loop thinking its too cold? I've seen pictures of what running without a t-stat does with the oil sludge. Just don't want to be doing more harm one way than the other. Still kind of new at this game. Thanx for all the replies, anymore will be greatly appreciated.
Chris |
I think that aluminum radiator is calling your name, dude. Did you wire the fan to run all the time the engine is on, or is it thermostatically controlled? Is it kicking on? I'm still wondering what condition your radiator is in. Sounds like a freakin' mess really. Even after driving at 130mph and then going straight into city traffic, I've never had a problem since replacing the radiator & fan clutch. You'd be really surprised what a new radiator can do. Good luck. Oh, and get a high-flow thermostat (Robert Shaw makes good ones). http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif
------------------ Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online 1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73 1987 Mustang LX Notch |
Capri, I am thinking the same thing with the radiator. Think you can convince the wife better than I can cause I sure need help with this one!! The radiator is less than 2 yrs old. It was replaced just before the motor was rebuilt. Had I known anything about the car at the time I probably would have gotten an aluminum one. Also, where can I pick up one of those Robert Shaw t-stats? Thanx for the reply.
Chris |
I agree on the High flow thermostat. Pretty sure there wax filled. Work good. The stock wp pulley will help at low rpm.(they made the ud wp pulley to work the factory belt).
You didn't get the wrong direction wp by accident? Or a bad wp. The only time I get to 230 is at the drags in the staging lanes. I have 190 stat, UD pulleys, electric fan(No shroud),stock rad and wp. ------------------ 82 Mercury Capri 302. Comp. Cams Tremec 3550 3.73's 12.8@106 N/AKevin's Capri |
I just redid my cooling system with a heavy duty radiator from Pep Boys ($120) and a Stewart high flow pump and a cheap @$$ Auto Zone electric fan. My car runs so cool now the needle barely moves.
You probably have a plugged radiator since everything else should be running up to par. ------------------ ICQ# 42269241 Indiana Stangers Association Buy your parts here |
Sounds like a radiator issue to me, I was running a Stewart pump, 180 thermo and a Flex fan and ran about 210 degrees, then I switched to the Ron Davis Racing radiator. After the install I needed to run a 195 thermo just to get the motor to run 180 degrees, which the stock EEC needs or it add fuel and retards timing. I just switched to a Perma Cool fan. I paid $269.00 for my Ron Davis through Tommie Vaughun or Downs FOrd also sells them.
------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! |
I had cooling issues in the past. I would switch to a 180 high flow stat, not a 160. I did this, along with the stewart water pump, fluidyne radiator, and the black magic (by the way, the black magic cools no better or worse than the stock fan),
You can get the high flow 180 from Sumitt or Auto Zone carries them also. I would go to auto zone because sumitt sent me the wrong one. I had to go to an aluminum rad. I had a three core heavy duty copper/brass, and it just didnt do the job. I recommend the Fluidyne rad. Its bad a$$. ------------------ 1993 GT/AOD '93 Mustang GT |
One thing you guys forgot to mention, is if you have A/C or not. The original post was about the A/C being on and it heating up.
I have a 3 core Griffin alum rad, a black magic fan, brand new stock water pump, underdrive pulleys, 180 degree hi-flow t-stat, and A/C. Car runs 180-185 even in the hottest conditions. But when you turn the A/C on my car slowly overheats. This would indicate either inadequate (sp?) fan cfm, or not enough flow, assuming the cooling system is in good shape. I am going to try to take out the restrictor in the heater core lines, and see if that helps. I am also going to try the stock water pump pulley and possibly a high-flow water pump. I currently run water wetter and 50/50 mix antifreeze. I will try these things soon as the weather gets hot. Temp just dropped into the 30's and its snowing right now. I posted about this before, and got all kinds of helpful info, but not one person who posted had A/C and used it. Jason |
Well I have to admit that I did use some stop-leak in the radiator this past winter to try and fix the heater-core. Should I try to have the radiator flushed out real good? I do have the flow restrictor in the heater hose, but I didn't think that would make much of a difference. My thinking now is to flush this radiator and see if that helps. If not, time for a new radiator? I appreciate all the posts everybody has given me.
Chris |
Stop Leak? I think it may have plugged your radiator. I've had bad luck with that stuff, perfonally.
About the T-stat, if you can get away with a 180 then it would be better than a 160. I have to use a 160 because by the time a 180 opens, it's too late, the engine gets hot and detonates. You can order a hi-flow thermostat from Summit. They cost $8.95. ------------------ Russ L '91 LX Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles. [This message has been edited by NO SLO PK (edited 04-17-2001).] |
If the AC is what is making U overheat U need a better fan more than a new Rad!!!. My car ran 210-240 with AC in the summer. 210-220 without AC. When i went with the Summit 4 core rad, my temps went down to 190-210 without AC and 190-220 with AC. Not being happy still, I had my stock fan come on at a lower temp and viola, it now runs b/n 170-195 with or without the AC.
------------------ TFS heads, Holley intake, AFM B-2 cam, 77mm MAF, 65mmTB, Bassani X-pipe with cats and Autologic custom chip. NOS dry kit, 80hp shot just installed. Black SN95 13.8 @105mph NA 13.2 @112mph 80hp NOS Wet track, running on NOS setting on NA runs (pig rich and 8 deg timing) |
Wel I just replaced that stock fan and clutch with the Black Magic. Is that one not going to be enough to cool this thing off? 110* outside is too hot to not have a/c. Went the past 2 yrs without it. I almost bought the heavy duty fan and clutch, but opted for the black magic. Was that a mistake?
Chris |
IS your radiator in good condition? Try draining it and pouring water back in. It should go down without backing up. If it backs up and overflows then chugs to go down, it's probably plugged. Your radiator might just need to be reamed out. Mine did that and when I got it fixed it ran cool as winter.
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I take it that any radiator shop can ream out my radiator right? I am taking the car in to my mechanic on friday to leave it with him for a week while I am out of town to have him track down this oil leak. I guess at the same time i can have the radiator cleaned out. If this doesn't solve the problem, should I just go back to the stock fan setup or upgrade to the heavy duty fan and clutch? Once again thanks for all the replies on this.
Chris |
I doubt that changing back to your other pulley will help much. You can always try though. I'd go to a 160 stat and drain the system , flush it good, and fill it back with straight water and add some 40 below. Just my $.02. later, Violent ------------------ 84 GT-350, 2.5" Ram air hood, Centerline Pintails, 5-lug conversion, Recaro's, 140 speedo, 8.8 conversion, 3.73's, Motorsport A/C eliminator, Hurst shifter, ASP pulleys, Eibach pro kit, KYB's, Flowmaster exhaust, Long tubes, Custom X-pipe, Extreme Energy 268 Ported stock heads, Pete Jackson Gear drive, Weiand Xcelerator intake, and more to come! |
Ok, Ive had cooling problems, and I'm sure I can help you out there.
First things to check is to make sure your fan is working and coming on. It cant hurt to goto the stock water pump pulley, and its going to cost you maybe 2-4hp at the most. If you have the stock radiator I'm sure that is the problem. Get a good 3core brass unit. I run one and it works great. I think it was about $150? Maybe less, I dont remember it was a while ago. I run that 3 core with 80/20 water/coolant and redline water wetter with a permacool 16" electric fan and the stock water pump, with a 180 thermo and the car stays dead cool under ANY conditions. 105+ degrees or more. Changing the thermo if your car isnt cooling already will do NOTHING for you. Get the radiator and your problems will be solved. Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows. 12.55@107mph Going for 11's on 87 octane with A/C and 20+MPG!!! |
Skyman:
When you say under any conditions, do you mean with the A/C on in traffic? Where did you get the permacool fan from? How many cfm's does that pull? Thanks for any help you could give. Jason |
Well I got my perma-cool from jegs. I think it pulls 2800cfm. Does that sound right?? I think its was like 20 something dollars and 9 for a spacer. Warning: If you go with a three core radiator and get the permacool fan. Dont go with the 2 1/4 spacer they will try to sell you. Its to big and will hit the radiator. Go with the 1 or 1 1/2 inch.
------------------ 347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, A9P Computer, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley Fuel Regulator, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 79mm Mass Air Unit, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors |
gotta tell you I have the black magic 150 and I don't think it cools as well as the stock fan and shroud..the electric shroud does not cover the entire radiator like the stock one. This means the fan cools a smaller portion of the radiator. I'd go with mach 1 and install the fluidyne unit first though. You can never have enough radiator, thermostats and everything else are pretty much bandaids. (I run waterwetter and a 160 robert shaw.
------------------ 88LX notch, Speedpro EFI Procharged! |
thats right, cant have to much rad! I forgot to mention, i also swapped back to stock water pump pully when i was running hot. it helped some, but not much. After getting the new rad. i went back to the underdrive pully for good. I used to run the underdrive water pump pully in the winter, and put the stock pully on in the summer. I had like 4 different length fan belts..lol.
------------------ 1993 GT/AOD '93 Mustang GT |
Ya, disconnect the rad, and rinse it out (run the water backwards). Maybe even try using a solvent... just rince it out well so it doesn't get into the heater core!
THe exhaust isn't getting clogged is it? THat can really cause some heating. THe stock 4 cat H-pipe sucks... and it could be pretty much shot. The Black tragic fan is only rated for the 225HP. Anymore (or A/C), and it won't cut it. An SN95 or Mark VIII fan is really the way to go. You'll need the 130 amp alt as well. I wouldn't use the 160 thermostat, but I do highly recommend a hi-flow 180... it really does make a difference. Stock pulleys overdrive the waterpump by 29%. March underdrives the waterpump by 10%. March underdrive crank & going back to the stock WP pulley will overdrive it by 6% (some help). Since you've got the electric fan, you could even go to the 93 cobra over-drive WP pulley, which brings it back up to 29% (with the underdrive crank). Since the fan & clutch are gone, the waterpump should still last a long time. If that doesn't work, at least get a 3 core rad! |
I want to thank everyone for their help on this. When I get back from my trip to DC I will head to the radiator shop and see if they can give it a real good flushing. I really don't have the facilities to do it here at the house. If that doesn't seem to help, then I will talk the wife into letting me get an aluminum radiator. It's just sad when I thought this fan and this new pump would actually help me and it hasn't. Ohh well, lesson learned I guess. Thanks again for all the help.
Chris |
its all in the fan..i had a 12 sec aluminum headed stang with a 4cly radiator in it and it cooled like a mofo..you know why..i had a v-6 tourus station wagon electric fan in it..in my new car i have a 94-99 stang fan in it..the fit is better but it still has the same motor and fan blades as the tourus fan..
------------------ 1987 black notch(ex 4 banger) DSS 306 w/ main support...Elderbrock 6028 heads..gt-40 intake..24# injectors...70 mm tb..77 pro-m...accel 300+..mac full legnth..tremec w/ pro5oh...full MAC exhaust,off road h-pipe,long tubes, catback...ron davis radiator..subframes, control arms...CFDF II..o yea holley FPR sucks..dont buy one.. AIM=onesillynotch |
I have a black magic fan and it works
fine ... ... when blades turn... The kind of black box we must install in the circuit act as a resistor and in my case the fan works 5-10 min then stop because that resistor become to hot. The black box when hot became an open circuit. If it did that one time it will always do. I have not solved the problem yet and maybe that s your problem too. just chek that dawn box. |
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I don't know about the black box you are talking about, but I hope the fan is on a relay. My buddy had his wired with 18 ga. and a switch. We put a relay and 12 ga. and the fan ran twice as fast. Of course the 12 ga. helped alot. Relays are plentiful in the wreckers. My choice has been late 80 to 90's chevy v6 cars. They are small and easy to wire. I know, I know Chevy part, but they work. I also admit the delco batteries work good too. |
Chris, my car has been doing the same. Stop by Yearwood and pick up a Mr. Gasket balanced stat. It helped me out last year. I recenly picked one up again...hopefully it works again. Give me a call if you want me to pick up the stat, I can save it for you until you get back into town. I'll e-mail you the #.
My car will hit 230 with the air on in Mesa St. traffic. Tonight it hit 210 w/o the air! If my car continues this sh*t I'll step up the radiator. My stock rad is only 2 years old, but not efficient enough IMHO. Ford should have made a HD cooling system mandatory for us poor suckers stuck out here... ------------------ Robert 91GT; 88 ASC McLaren #709 |
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