Questions on Roll Cages, Welding, and Ignition

BlackFireN2O · 08-24-2002, 08:44 PM

I was thinking of getting the Competition Engineering 10pt roll cage from Summit Racing. Their 8pt roll bar is said to have 1-3/4" x .134" mild steel tubing, but when i had checked the 10pt cage its description stated having 1-5/8" x .134" mild steel tubing. Does the 10pt cage have thinner tubing than the 8pt, and why? Or is the 1-5/8" tubbing description just referring to the upper halo and the two bars from the halo to the floor of the car? And is CE as good a company in roll cages ad Maximum Motorsports, becase the MM 6pt roll bar is $350 whereas the CE 10pt roll cage is $250.

I think i might do the welding myself because labor can be pretty expensive, and from what i gather, there is a short quantity of quality shops in the New York Area. How hard is it to weld your own stuff, how long does it take to lean to weld? Are there any books that i can read that will get me started on how to select welding equipment? And do you think it is worth the time to learn how to weld and weld your own things, or should i go to a shop and have them weld things for me. Answer these welding questions with quality and "money-saving" in mind.

Some ignition boxes have something called a starting retard function and are adjustable from 0* to 20*. What are these supposed to accomplish and what is a good starting retard timing? Plenty Thanks and sorry for this being so long!!

SlowGT · 08-24-2002, 09:18 PM

Here's the skinny on the tube sizes: CE makes 'bars' with 1-3/4" tubing and they make 'cages' with 1-5/8" tubing. They told me why they do this when I was up there, but at the moment I don't recall what it was.

My cousin is a welder by trade and he's installed many bars & cages in his day. He swears by CE's kits. Says he's never had any issues with them. Said they're always an excellent fit. That's not to say that MM aren't quality also. He said he's never done one of their's. I wouldn't necessarily judge quality by $$$. A Kenny Brown 8pt cage is around $500. Mild steel is pretty much the same wherever you go. My car's at CE/Moroso right now getting an 8pt cage. They didn't have production jigs for 94-98 so I was able to get an awesome deal for donating my car for the design fit. Got a couple of pics posted here:

http://eastcoaststangs.com/fusetalk/...&threadid=2253

I'll post more when it's finished.

As for learning to weld...Do you really want a roll cage/bar that you someday may rely on to save your life to be your 1st project?? I wouldn't. If you do though, it must be MIG welded for NHRA/IHRA cert. So learn to MIG and not stick.

Good luck

HotRoddin · 08-24-2002, 11:13 PM

SlowGT is right ... a roll cage is not something you want to learn to weld on.
First to learn to weld properly takes a lot of work and even more practice, and second welding fairly thin walled tubing where the fit isn't always perfect is some of the most difficult welding there is.
Welding is a lot of fun and it can give you a great sense of accomplishment, but start off on a set of lift bars or a driveshaft loop not on a roll cage.
If that car goes dirty side up, you don't want your life depending on a bunch of your practice welds !

mikew88gt · 08-25-2002, 08:01 AM

One other thing about welding your own cage should you decide to do it. (I second what the other guys said). CE recommends a mig with at least 130 amp for proper penetration. Most home 110volt migs don't quite get that high. You probably need a 220 volt mig which would be overkill for most home mechanics. Your better off renting the mig if you do decide to go that route.

The start retard is usually used on high compression engines to let the starter turn the motor with less effort.

08-24-2002, 08:44 PM	#1
BlackFireN2O Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36	Questions on Roll Cages, Welding, and Ignition I was thinking of getting the Competition Engineering 10pt roll cage from Summit Racing. Their 8pt roll bar is said to have 1-3/4" x .134" mild steel tubing, but when i had checked the 10pt cage its description stated having 1-5/8" x .134" mild steel tubing. Does the 10pt cage have thinner tubing than the 8pt, and why? Or is the 1-5/8" tubbing description just referring to the upper halo and the two bars from the halo to the floor of the car? And is CE as good a company in roll cages ad Maximum Motorsports, becase the MM 6pt roll bar is $350 whereas the CE 10pt roll cage is $250. I think i might do the welding myself because labor can be pretty expensive, and from what i gather, there is a short quantity of quality shops in the New York Area. How hard is it to weld your own stuff, how long does it take to lean to weld? Are there any books that i can read that will get me started on how to select welding equipment? And do you think it is worth the time to learn how to weld and weld your own things, or should i go to a shop and have them weld things for me. Answer these welding questions with quality and "money-saving" in mind. Some ignition boxes have something called a starting retard function and are adjustable from 0* to 20*. What are these supposed to accomplish and what is a good starting retard timing? Plenty Thanks and sorry for this being so long!!

08-24-2002, 09:18 PM	#2
SlowGT Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Columbia Co, PA Posts: 303	Here's the skinny on the tube sizes: CE makes 'bars' with 1-3/4" tubing and they make 'cages' with 1-5/8" tubing. They told me why they do this when I was up there, but at the moment I don't recall what it was. My cousin is a welder by trade and he's installed many bars & cages in his day. He swears by CE's kits. Says he's never had any issues with them. Said they're always an excellent fit. That's not to say that MM aren't quality also. He said he's never done one of their's. I wouldn't necessarily judge quality by $$$. A Kenny Brown 8pt cage is around $500. Mild steel is pretty much the same wherever you go. My car's at CE/Moroso right now getting an 8pt cage. They didn't have production jigs for 94-98 so I was able to get an awesome deal for donating my car for the design fit. Got a couple of pics posted here: http://eastcoaststangs.com/fusetalk/...&threadid=2253 I'll post more when it's finished. As for learning to weld...Do you really want a roll cage/bar that you someday may rely on to save your life to be your 1st project?? I wouldn't. If you do though, it must be MIG welded for NHRA/IHRA cert. So learn to MIG and not stick. Good luck __________________ Old Slow GT New Slow GT--> under construction Latest Addition: 95 Cobra R, #73, bone stock, ~6100 miles.

08-25-2002, 08:01 AM	#4
mikew88gt Registered Member Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: New York State Posts: 242	One other thing about welding your own cage should you decide to do it. (I second what the other guys said). CE recommends a mig with at least 130 amp for proper penetration. Most home 110volt migs don't quite get that high. You probably need a 220 volt mig which would be overkill for most home mechanics. Your better off renting the mig if you do decide to go that route. The start retard is usually used on high compression engines to let the starter turn the motor with less effort. __________________ Your basic carbed 302 with Edelbrock Performer heads, Performer RPM intake and 650 Speed Demon. My 1988 Mustang GT

08-24-2002, 11:13 PM	#3
HotRoddin cranky old man Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Longview Texas Posts: 683	SlowGT is right ... a roll cage is not something you want to learn to weld on. First to learn to weld properly takes a lot of work and even more practice, and second welding fairly thin walled tubing where the fit isn't always perfect is some of the most difficult welding there is. Welding is a lot of fun and it can give you a great sense of accomplishment, but start off on a set of lift bars or a driveshaft loop not on a roll cage. If that car goes dirty side up, you don't want your life depending on a bunch of your practice welds !