Going CAM CRAZY!!!

Capri306 · 02-06-2001, 05:03 PM

Okee, I'm at the point where cam selection is driving me up a wall. Here's what I want: something with a nice & flat, but HIGH torque curve, and that will take best advantage of my setup that it will run. I wish some cam makers would at least give some torque curves and flow data on their sites...but I guess I'm dreaming again, aren't I?

Here's what I'm going with: Pro-M 75mm MAF & 24 lb/hr injectors, Windsor Jr. heads, FRPP roller rockers (1.6's), Cobra intake, 65mm TB, 2500 stall converter, BBK full length headers & H-pipe, BBK fuel pressure regulator & gauge & 190lph pump, and I'm fiddling with the idea of the FRPP wide-ratio AOD gear kit since I have 3.73's already. That's why I'd like a flat torque curve.

So far, the best cam I've looked at is the Crane 2030, with .533/.544 lift and 216/220 duration @ 0.050.

What Crane confuses me about is their interpretation of the 2040 (aka the E303). They're claiming it's this huge radical cam and you have to run a 5-speed and 3.55's or higher. Um, it's the emissions-legal FRPP cam, guys! Anyhoo, on the 2030 I like, the 'basic RPM' is 2000-5500, whereas on the 2040/E303, it's 2400-6000. Gee, from only 4 degrees more duration on the intake side??? And less lift??? That's the biggest complaint I've heard about the FRPP cams: too much duration, not enough lift. I'm *trying* for a 12-second car (read: almost 400 horse) that I can still drive on the street without burning phenomenal amounts of gas. Any thoughts, guys? I'm still confooosed. Oh, btw, I'd like to stay away from a custom-grind if I could, please.

A slight lope at idle would be nice, too.

------------------
Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online
1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73
1987 Mustang LX Notch

<--- New Timeslips

[This message has been edited by Capri306 (edited 02-06-2001).]

elmir50 · 02-07-2001, 02:01 AM

Heres the reasoning for the way lobe angles affect engine performance:

A numerically smaller angle delays the exhaust valve opening and closeing, trapping more cylinder pressure and increasing overlap, or time both valves are open. This amke use of the engines escaping exhaust gases to pull in freash charge. The negative is that as rpm increases, it takes work for the piston to push the exhaust out and some of the charge starts to fly out the exhaust port during overlap.

A numerically bigger angle will open the exhaust valve sooner, this help to blow down the cylinder quiker, and saves the piston from pushing all the exhaust(this is useful for aiding a engine that is not naturally aspirated like nitrous)Also with artificial aspiration you do not want alot of overlap, because their is more pressure in the cylinder then when naturally aspirtaed. There is a tendancy for the charge to fly back up the intake tract if the intake valve is opened to soon.

For that lumpy idle sound a cam with more overlap will give you that at the expense of street manners. I hope the info help you decide! Your best bet is to phone crane or comp cams with all the veichle info. Good luck.

02-07-2001, 03:04 AM

Get ahold of ED Curtis,he knows what he's doing in working with custom ground camshafts.Don't just settle for a "off-the-shelf-everyone-else is-using-this-cam-syndrome"

------------------
Paxton Blown 87GT

Mach 1 · 02-07-2001, 04:28 AM

I have the cam for you. Its a comp. cam, and it is exactly what your looking for, well, close anyway. Im running this cam in my AOD car, and Im happy with it. I had the e-303, and it has a narrow LSA (lobe separation angle) of 110, which you do not want with the automatic, even with a stall converter. Narrow LSA means narrow powerband (and higher up in the range) hence the e-303, and you will not get out of the hole with an AOD and this cam. You need a cam that has a wide powerband, and u cant have the best of both worlds(high powerband and wide powerband, u get one or the other, with some compromise somewhere).

I actually like the numbers on that crane 2030, and I think your on the right track. It has a 112 LSA, which is ok, but I still like a 114 LSA with an automatic. The comp cam im running is close to the crane, I think it is 215/220, with lift of .533 and .545, 114 LSA, with the powerband in the 1500-5000 rpm range. 1500 is good with the automatic, you need to start low for good driveability and street manners and u cant rev it up into the powerband and dump the clutch. E-mail me if u want the part number for this cam. I ordered it from JEgs for around $240.00. It has a sweet lope at idle also, everybody loves the sound of my cam.

also, dont cheap out on the torque converter, get a PI stallion

------------------
1993 GT/AOD
'93 Mustang GT

[This message has been edited by Mach 1 (edited 02-07-2001).]

Josh91 · 02-07-2001, 09:34 AM

I have heard good things about the 2030. I really like my 2031 in my AOD ride. It is 214/220, 513/529 (1.7's) with a 112 LSA. It has good power down low and pulls like gangbusters clear to 6K. It has a nice lope at idle too!

------------------
1991 Mustang GT - Cobra Intake, FMS 65mm TB, C&L 73mm MAF, GT-40P heads, Crane 2031 cam, Crane 1.7rr, Built AOD, Art Carr 2400 non-lockup converter, Transgo shift kit, BBK chrome cold air, FMS 'P' headers, Pacesetter off-road H, BBK aluminum pulleys, 2-C Flows w/ dumps, 4.10's, Steeda STB, for now...

The Original GT-40P Tech Page

FoxBuilder · 02-07-2001, 12:46 PM

Try www.lazercams.com or call Lunati. CompCams has an online tech also

------------------
1984 Mustang Top Fueler with Flowmaster's

79Stang · 02-07-2001, 12:54 PM

I have a Comp. Cam Magnum series in my non-roller motor, but if I where you I would look into the Crane Power Max series..With that stall you have I would go alittle higher in the power band...Do you have a roller motor???

02-07-2001, 12:57 PM

I've got the 2030 and am very happy with it. It has a great sound at idle and produces nice torque throughtout the range. I would recommend it. Not too bad on gas, passes emissions.

------------------
306ci, TFS stage 3 heads. port/pol edlebrock performer intake.
77mm mass air, 70mm TB, crane 2030 cam, Mac full length headers, flowmasters
3.73 gears and more.

Capri306 · 02-09-2001, 06:04 PM

Thanks for all of your recommendations, guys. I'm leaning towards the CompCams XE266HR. Their description is "mild mods, 3.27-3.73 gears, mass air, larger throttle body." It has 266*/274* ad. duration and 216*/224* @ 0.050", with .544/.555 lift! Wow, gonna have to check my piston-to-valve clearance, aren't I? If it doesn't fit, I'll go with the XE258HR. I think that's the one you're talking about, Mach1. I know what you mean, it's a toss-up between the Crane 2030 and the XE258HR right now. Ugh, decisions, decisions...

Those Xtreme energy cams look like my bag so far: designed to be computer compatible, plenty of lift, and just enough duration to make horse but not so much as to kill driveability. Oh, the LSA is 112 degrees, btw. I'm might call a few of these companies up and ask just 'cause I want everybody's input before deciding. You guys are reading me perfectly on what I want to do, though. Thanks!

------------------
Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online
1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73
1987 Mustang LX Notch

<--- New Timeslips

Mach 1 · 02-10-2001, 07:42 AM

No, Im not talking about the XE266HR. When I called comps tech line, that is what the guy recommended for me, but I wasnt impressed with the tech line (he didnt seem very interested, and really didnt listen to what I had to say when I was telling him my combo, he just rattled off that cam), but it has a 112 LSA, and I wanted to stick with a 114 LSA for an automatic, which I recommend. Stay away from the XE258HR, it doesnt have enough duration. The one im running isnt in the extreme energy line, but the specs. are real close to the XE266HR.

My cam is listed in their catalog under "computer compatible camshafts" as the 270HR, and its specs. are 215/220 @ .050, 270/276 advertised duration, and .533, .540 lift, and a 114 LSA.

------------------
1993 GT/AOD
'93 Mustang GT

02-06-2001, 05:03 PM	#1
Capri306 Moderator Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA Posts: 1,001	Going CAM CRAZY!!! Okee, I'm at the point where cam selection is driving me up a wall. Here's what I want: something with a nice & flat, but HIGH torque curve, and that will take best advantage of my setup that it will run. I wish some cam makers would at least give some torque curves and flow data on their sites...but I guess I'm dreaming again, aren't I? Here's what I'm going with: Pro-M 75mm MAF & 24 lb/hr injectors, Windsor Jr. heads, FRPP roller rockers (1.6's), Cobra intake, 65mm TB, 2500 stall converter, BBK full length headers & H-pipe, BBK fuel pressure regulator & gauge & 190lph pump, and I'm fiddling with the idea of the FRPP wide-ratio AOD gear kit since I have 3.73's already. That's why I'd like a flat torque curve. So far, the best cam I've looked at is the Crane 2030, with .533/.544 lift and 216/220 duration @ 0.050. What Crane confuses me about is their interpretation of the 2040 (aka the E303). They're claiming it's this huge radical cam and you have to run a 5-speed and 3.55's or higher. Um, it's the emissions-legal FRPP cam, guys! Anyhoo, on the 2030 I like, the 'basic RPM' is 2000-5500, whereas on the 2040/E303, it's 2400-6000. Gee, from only 4 degrees more duration on the intake side??? And less lift??? That's the biggest complaint I've heard about the FRPP cams: too much duration, not enough lift. I'm trying for a 12-second car (read: almost 400 horse) that I can still drive on the street without burning phenomenal amounts of gas. Any thoughts, guys? I'm still confooosed. Oh, btw, I'd like to stay away from a custom-grind if I could, please. A slight lope at idle would be nice, too. ------------------ Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online 1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73 1987 Mustang LX Notch <--- New Timeslips [This message has been edited by Capri306 (edited 02-06-2001).]

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02-07-2001, 02:01 AM	#2
elmir50 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Tsawwassen BC Canada Posts: 413	Heres the reasoning for the way lobe angles affect engine performance: A numerically smaller angle delays the exhaust valve opening and closeing, trapping more cylinder pressure and increasing overlap, or time both valves are open. This amke use of the engines escaping exhaust gases to pull in freash charge. The negative is that as rpm increases, it takes work for the piston to push the exhaust out and some of the charge starts to fly out the exhaust port during overlap. A numerically bigger angle will open the exhaust valve sooner, this help to blow down the cylinder quiker, and saves the piston from pushing all the exhaust(this is useful for aiding a engine that is not naturally aspirated like nitrous)Also with artificial aspiration you do not want alot of overlap, because their is more pressure in the cylinder then when naturally aspirtaed. There is a tendancy for the charge to fly back up the intake tract if the intake valve is opened to soon. For that lumpy idle sound a cam with more overlap will give you that at the expense of street manners. I hope the info help you decide! Your best bet is to phone crane or comp cams with all the veichle info. Good luck.

02-07-2001, 03:04 AM	#3
Mustanguy Guest Posts: n/a	Get ahold of ED Curtis,he knows what he's doing in working with custom ground camshafts.Don't just settle for a "off-the-shelf-everyone-else is-using-this-cam-syndrome" ------------------ Paxton Blown 87GT

02-07-2001, 04:28 AM	#4
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	I have the cam for you. Its a comp. cam, and it is exactly what your looking for, well, close anyway. Im running this cam in my AOD car, and Im happy with it. I had the e-303, and it has a narrow LSA (lobe separation angle) of 110, which you do not want with the automatic, even with a stall converter. Narrow LSA means narrow powerband (and higher up in the range) hence the e-303, and you will not get out of the hole with an AOD and this cam. You need a cam that has a wide powerband, and u cant have the best of both worlds(high powerband and wide powerband, u get one or the other, with some compromise somewhere). I actually like the numbers on that crane 2030, and I think your on the right track. It has a 112 LSA, which is ok, but I still like a 114 LSA with an automatic. The comp cam im running is close to the crane, I think it is 215/220, with lift of .533 and .545, 114 LSA, with the powerband in the 1500-5000 rpm range. 1500 is good with the automatic, you need to start low for good driveability and street manners and u cant rev it up into the powerband and dump the clutch. E-mail me if u want the part number for this cam. I ordered it from JEgs for around $240.00. It has a sweet lope at idle also, everybody loves the sound of my cam. also, dont cheap out on the torque converter, get a PI stallion ------------------ 1993 GT/AOD '93 Mustang GT [This message has been edited by Mach 1 (edited 02-07-2001).]

02-07-2001, 09:34 AM	#5
Josh91 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Salina, KS Posts: 83	I have heard good things about the 2030. I really like my 2031 in my AOD ride. It is 214/220, 513/529 (1.7's) with a 112 LSA. It has good power down low and pulls like gangbusters clear to 6K. It has a nice lope at idle too! ------------------ 1991 Mustang GT - Cobra Intake, FMS 65mm TB, C&L 73mm MAF, GT-40P heads, Crane 2031 cam, Crane 1.7rr, Built AOD, Art Carr 2400 non-lockup converter, Transgo shift kit, BBK chrome cold air, FMS 'P' headers, Pacesetter off-road H, BBK aluminum pulleys, 2-C Flows w/ dumps, 4.10's, Steeda STB, for now... The Original GT-40P Tech Page

02-07-2001, 12:46 PM	#6
FoxBuilder Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 233	Try www.lazercams.com or call Lunati. CompCams has an online tech also ------------------ 1984 Mustang Top Fueler with Flowmaster's

02-07-2001, 12:54 PM	#7
79Stang The Stang Gang Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: St. Petersburg Posts: 63	I have a Comp. Cam Magnum series in my non-roller motor, but if I where you I would look into the Crane Power Max series..With that stall you have I would go alittle higher in the power band...Do you have a roller motor???

02-07-2001, 12:57 PM	#8
mmike Guest Posts: n/a	I've got the 2030 and am very happy with it. It has a great sound at idle and produces nice torque throughtout the range. I would recommend it. Not too bad on gas, passes emissions. ------------------ 306ci, TFS stage 3 heads. port/pol edlebrock performer intake. 77mm mass air, 70mm TB, crane 2030 cam, Mac full length headers, flowmasters 3.73 gears and more.

02-09-2001, 06:04 PM	#9
Capri306 Moderator Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA Posts: 1,001	Thanks for all of your recommendations, guys. I'm leaning towards the CompCams XE266HR. Their description is "mild mods, 3.27-3.73 gears, mass air, larger throttle body." It has 266/274 ad. duration and 216/224 @ 0.050", with .544/.555 lift! Wow, gonna have to check my piston-to-valve clearance, aren't I? If it doesn't fit, I'll go with the XE258HR. I think that's the one you're talking about, Mach1. I know what you mean, it's a toss-up between the Crane 2030 and the XE258HR right now. Ugh, decisions, decisions... Those Xtreme energy cams look like my bag so far: designed to be computer compatible, plenty of lift, and just enough duration to make horse but not so much as to kill driveability. Oh, the LSA is 112 degrees, btw. I'm might call a few of these companies up and ask just 'cause I want everybody's input before deciding. You guys are reading me perfectly on what I want to do, though. Thanks! ------------------ Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online 1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73 1987 Mustang LX Notch <--- New Timeslips

02-10-2001, 07:42 AM	#10
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	No, Im not talking about the XE266HR. When I called comps tech line, that is what the guy recommended for me, but I wasnt impressed with the tech line (he didnt seem very interested, and really didnt listen to what I had to say when I was telling him my combo, he just rattled off that cam), but it has a 112 LSA, and I wanted to stick with a 114 LSA for an automatic, which I recommend. Stay away from the XE258HR, it doesnt have enough duration. The one im running isnt in the extreme energy line, but the specs. are real close to the XE266HR. My cam is listed in their catalog under "computer compatible camshafts" as the 270HR, and its specs. are 215/220 @ .050, 270/276 advertised duration, and .533, .540 lift, and a 114 LSA. ------------------ 1993 GT/AOD '93 Mustang GT