What do I nee to convert a Notchback 302 to a 460

LX NCH 50 · 07-19-2001, 03:34 PM

Hey, I got hold of a 460 and am building it as I type

Well I was wondering what I need to do to my pony so it can hold my engine.

1. Engine mounts? How much?
2. Any way I can connect the T-5z to the flywheel? or do I need a new trany.(if I can use my tranny, do I need a different drive shaft length?
3. Headers and Oil pan clearence... Do I need special headers, and oilpan?
4. Will Ineed to move the radiator forward or should it fit?
5. I have a 5" cowl allready so I am guessing I have enough clearence.
6. Anything else someone may have done this and ran into problems.

Thanks guys, you always have great advice.
-Kevin

NOS_Notch · 07-19-2001, 07:58 PM

I know of a guy who did it...he uses a C4 though......so on the tranny i'm unsure...but ther eis a kit to do the swap(mounts,headers??)
It's about $800
Probably available from Total Performance in Clinton Twp. MI

------------------
'88 coupe...stock as a rock.
Check out http://www.burnouts.stangnet.com

11's coming soon!!!!
Heads,intake and cam are all here

MiracleMax · 07-19-2001, 08:14 PM

They've got the FRPP Foxbody 460 motor mounts in the new Jegs along with the correct oil pan and headers.

Skyman · 07-19-2001, 10:13 PM

There are conversion kits out there. Call around, summit/jegs, Im sure you'll find it.

Good luck...

What are the plans for the motor?

Skyler

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406-
TFS TW Heads, E-303, Edelbrock intake, 70mm TB, 73mm MAF, 24lb injectors, 1 5/8 shorties, Off Road H, 3 Chamber flows, Jaz Race seats, Back seat removed, sub-frames, Roll Cage, and a 80 shot of N20.
12.54@107.4 Motor
1.69 60'

LX NCH 50 · 07-20-2001, 11:23 AM

Well I got the motor from a friend who's dad didn't want the engine in his garage anymore for $200, He gave me 2 sets of heads with it too. I dind't know what year it was and neither did the kid. When I got it I checked the casting number and it is a DOVE-A block, one of the set of heads is DOVE-C. On ebay the DOVE-C heads are going for $380 and the block is from 70. I was told the blocks after 70 are not as strong so I think I lucked out with the $200 deal

. Well I am having the hot-tanked next week so we will see how clean it comes out and what the first step is on getting this beast running again.

I will keep you guys posted on how things are going and if I run into any problems.
-Kevin

LX XLR8R · 07-20-2001, 11:41 AM

a cuople guys around here have done it..
thier are only 2 types of 460 mustangs..
the ones that sound like they go 9's and go high 13's and the ones that sound like thay go 9' and they do!!!

dont be the first one..you will feel like a dushe when a stock msuatng beets you..

ok what you need is headers, motormounts, oilpan, and running a auto like a c-6 wuold be cake

------------------
1987 black notch(ex 4 banger)
DSS 306 w/ main support...Elderbrock 6028 heads..gt-40 intake..24# injectors...70 mm tb..77 pro-m...accel 300+..mac full legnth..tremec w/ pro5oh...full MAC exhaust,off road h-pipe,long tubes, catback...ron davis radiator..subframes, control arms...CFDF II..o yea holley FPR sucks..dont buy one..
AIM=onesillynotch

429mustang · 07-20-2001, 01:24 PM

I'm doing the same swap. I'm going with a C-6 trans, I'll probably go with a FMS aluminum driveshaft and have it shortened if it need it after everything's installed. As far as headers, motor mounts, and other swap parts, I'd go to D&D Automotive Specialties website(not sure what the address is, I'll try and find out). They have motor mounts, trans parts, headers, k-members, etc. I got a pan for the swap from jeg's for somewhere around $150, make sure you get the oil pump made to go with the pan also. As far as the radiator, I'd get an a Griffen or another aftermarket radiator, I'm not sure the stock one would give you sufficient cooling. You'll probably have to go to manual brakes, the motor doesn't look like it will clear the brake booster (D&D has kits for converting to manual), You may be able to keep the power steering, but I've heard people have problems with the stock steering shaft hitting the headers, one guy said he got a shaft from Flaming River that worked good. I'll probably be doing the swap over the winter, let me know if you run into any problems fitting the motor/trans,etc.

------------------
86 Mustang GT w/pretty stock 93 5.0 (cam,pulleys,injectors, throttlebody,h-pipe)
Motor to be swapped for a 1970 429 +.030, ported heads, solid roller cam, victor intake, 10.2:1 comp, C-6 trans, 3:73 rearend W/moser axles

429mustang · 07-20-2001, 01:32 PM

D&D Auto Specialties
www.mspmall.com/ddautospec/index.html

also, try www.kaufmann products.com

------------------
86 Mustang GT w/pretty stock 93 5.0 (cam,pulleys,injectors, throttlebody,h-pipe)
Motor to be swapped for a 1970 429 +.030, ported heads, solid roller cam, victor intake, 10.2:1 comp, C-6 trans, 3:73 rearend W/moser axles

LX NCH 50 · 07-20-2001, 03:42 PM

Thanks for the links, those sites have some nice prices on their producs. But I have one question that I don't know the answer to. Is it possible to use a T-5z with the 460? Can I get a special bell-housing, and will I be able to bolt up to the flywheel? If anyone can answer this for me I would greatly appriciate it.
-Kevin

429mustang · 07-20-2001, 05:02 PM

I havn't seen any bellhousings for a T-5 to bolt up to a 460, but even if you found one the T-5 would get trashed pretty quick. T-5's can handle aroun 330 lbs/ft of torque, a stock 1970 460 puts out around 360 hp-480 lbs/ft torque. If you still want a manual, check out 4 speed toploaders. I looked into them a while ago, they can handle a lot more than a T-5, but they don't have an overdrive gear (although neither does a C-6), so if you don't care about overdrive, I'd go with one of those or the C-6 auto. I heard it's a little more complicated to fit up the Toploader as far as the headers clearing the clutch linkage, etc but it can be done. The toploaders go for around $900-1000 w/out the bell housing. Check out www.4speedtoploaders.com , they have toploaders + parts for swapping them into mustangs w/bigblocks.

------------------
86 Mustang GT w/pretty stock 93 5.0 (cam,pulleys,injectors, throttlebody,h-pipe)
Motor to be swapped for a 1970 429 +.030, ported heads, solid roller cam, victor intake, 10.2:1 comp, C-6 trans, 3:73 rearend W/moser axles

Red514LX · 07-20-2001, 10:51 PM

Hey,

I encourage you to join the bigblockfox mailing list. There are about 125 or so members now. All of us are working on our own Ford-based big block projects.

The address is:
http://www.egroups.com/group/bigblockfox

Also try:
http://www.bigblockmustangs.com/

You are correct in that the earlier blocks are much better for sustaining higher hp than the newer late-model blocks. What years are the strongest I do not know but some members on the bigblockfox mailing list will know for sure.

If you are going to use D0VE (it's actually a zero) heads -- block strength will not be much of an issue because you won't be making any big hp (700+).

I would HIGHLY advise agaist purchasing a 460-based crate motor from Ford. They come with rather weak rods (although I guess now they offer an Eagle rod option which is nice). The moderator of bigblockfox broke his natrually aspirated "stock" 514 crate motor after only 24 or so passes -- and it was a rod that failed. The 514 crate motor, for reference, makes ~600hp and he ran ~133mph on motor.

I also would very highly advice agaist using the D0VE head. At a bare miniumum you'll want to look into the Cobra Jet cylinder head (the new revised ones). The next step up is the Blue Thunder Cylinder Head. Although TFS has a head on the market now, I really think the Blue Thunder is currently the best bang for the buck out there. TFS is rumored to be designed a *great* big block ford head that might get the nod over the blue thunder soon, however.

I would advise NOT running a C4. A nicely prepped C6 is one choice. Another, often overlooked choice, however, is the TH400 -- yes, a Brand X tranny. The TH400 has the advantages of being lighter and having less rotating mass than the bulky C6. Thus, the TH400 consumes less hp. It's a 3 speed.

Finally, as I hinted at earlier, I HIGHLY reccomend upgrading to at least an eagle rod.

I think that for a novice mechanic, going the 460 route is NOT a piece of cake. Thus, unless you have plans to run 10s or quicker OR you have a strong desire to "be different" you should look at a built 302 or 351. However, if you want to run 10s (or heck, even 9s) on motor and 8s or 7s or whatever with a power adder, then the big block route is for you!

A 5" cowl hood *should* net you enough hood clearance. How you set the motor in the engine bay will be key in determining how much hood clearance you have.

I encourage you to use a motor plate to mount the engine. You can use engine mounts -- but I think the motor plate is a much better way to go. Total Performance, who has extensive experience with 460-based swaps, offers a motor plate package and can assist you with any questions you may have about the swap. Yes, you will need custom headers as well.

I don't know about the T5 or the oil pan. A T5 would live w/ a 460 as long as you didn't attach slicks and drive the snot out of it. Cooling is a BIG issue with doing a 460 swap. I think electric fans (yes, more than one) is a must.

Best of luck to you and I hope to see you post on the mailing list.

------------------
Jeff Kane
1990 LX Mustang Coupe

07-19-2001, 03:34 PM	#1
LX NCH 50 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Schaumburg, IL, USA Posts: 31	What do I nee to convert a Notchback 302 to a 460 Hey, I got hold of a 460 and am building it as I type Well I was wondering what I need to do to my pony so it can hold my engine. 1. Engine mounts? How much? 2. Any way I can connect the T-5z to the flywheel? or do I need a new trany.(if I can use my tranny, do I need a different drive shaft length? 3. Headers and Oil pan clearence... Do I need special headers, and oilpan? 4. Will Ineed to move the radiator forward or should it fit? 5. I have a 5" cowl allready so I am guessing I have enough clearence. 6. Anything else someone may have done this and ran into problems. Thanks guys, you always have great advice. -Kevin

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Redo Block & Convert to EFI? Prices?	wildneg	Windsor Power	3	04-25-2002 12:00 AM
Found a Notchback, but need advice	2FastLX	Windsor Power	7	11-06-2001 02:21 PM
Ran a 93 cobra and a notchback	FivepointOH	Stang Stories	10	08-14-2001 12:52 AM
'89 convert. top frame	Muddstangin	Blue Oval Lounge	1	08-11-2001 10:56 PM
will sn95 convert rear seats fit in a sn93 convert???	LX XLR8R	Windsor Power	4	06-05-2001 10:22 PM

07-19-2001, 07:58 PM	#2
NOS_Notch Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Fresno,CA. USA Posts: 384	I know of a guy who did it...he uses a C4 though......so on the tranny i'm unsure...but ther eis a kit to do the swap(mounts,headers??) It's about $800 Probably available from Total Performance in Clinton Twp. MI ------------------ '88 coupe...stock as a rock. Check out http://www.burnouts.stangnet.com 11's coming soon!!!! Heads,intake and cam are all here

07-19-2001, 08:14 PM	#3
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	They've got the FRPP Foxbody 460 motor mounts in the new Jegs along with the correct oil pan and headers.

07-19-2001, 10:13 PM	#4
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	There are conversion kits out there. Call around, summit/jegs, Im sure you'll find it. Good luck... What are the plans for the motor? Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS TW Heads, E-303, Edelbrock intake, 70mm TB, 73mm MAF, 24lb injectors, 1 5/8 shorties, Off Road H, 3 Chamber flows, Jaz Race seats, Back seat removed, sub-frames, Roll Cage, and a 80 shot of N20. 12.54@107.4 Motor 1.69 60'

07-20-2001, 11:23 AM	#5
LX NCH 50 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Schaumburg, IL, USA Posts: 31	Well I got the motor from a friend who's dad didn't want the engine in his garage anymore for $200, He gave me 2 sets of heads with it too. I dind't know what year it was and neither did the kid. When I got it I checked the casting number and it is a DOVE-A block, one of the set of heads is DOVE-C. On ebay the DOVE-C heads are going for $380 and the block is from 70. I was told the blocks after 70 are not as strong so I think I lucked out with the $200 deal . Well I am having the hot-tanked next week so we will see how clean it comes out and what the first step is on getting this beast running again. I will keep you guys posted on how things are going and if I run into any problems. -Kevin

07-20-2001, 11:41 AM	#6
LX XLR8R Dirk Diggler Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: SLOATSBURG, NY Posts: 1,931	a cuople guys around here have done it.. thier are only 2 types of 460 mustangs.. the ones that sound like they go 9's and go high 13's and the ones that sound like thay go 9' and they do!!! dont be the first one..you will feel like a dushe when a stock msuatng beets you.. ok what you need is headers, motormounts, oilpan, and running a auto like a c-6 wuold be cake ------------------ 1987 black notch(ex 4 banger) DSS 306 w/ main support...Elderbrock 6028 heads..gt-40 intake..24# injectors...70 mm tb..77 pro-m...accel 300+..mac full legnth..tremec w/ pro5oh...full MAC exhaust,off road h-pipe,long tubes, catback...ron davis radiator..subframes, control arms...CFDF II..o yea holley FPR sucks..dont buy one.. AIM=onesillynotch

07-20-2001, 01:24 PM	#7
429mustang Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: westerville, OH USA Posts: 618	I'm doing the same swap. I'm going with a C-6 trans, I'll probably go with a FMS aluminum driveshaft and have it shortened if it need it after everything's installed. As far as headers, motor mounts, and other swap parts, I'd go to D&D Automotive Specialties website(not sure what the address is, I'll try and find out). They have motor mounts, trans parts, headers, k-members, etc. I got a pan for the swap from jeg's for somewhere around $150, make sure you get the oil pump made to go with the pan also. As far as the radiator, I'd get an a Griffen or another aftermarket radiator, I'm not sure the stock one would give you sufficient cooling. You'll probably have to go to manual brakes, the motor doesn't look like it will clear the brake booster (D&D has kits for converting to manual), You may be able to keep the power steering, but I've heard people have problems with the stock steering shaft hitting the headers, one guy said he got a shaft from Flaming River that worked good. I'll probably be doing the swap over the winter, let me know if you run into any problems fitting the motor/trans,etc. ------------------ 86 Mustang GT w/pretty stock 93 5.0 (cam,pulleys,injectors, throttlebody,h-pipe) Motor to be swapped for a 1970 429 +.030, ported heads, solid roller cam, victor intake, 10.2:1 comp, C-6 trans, 3:73 rearend W/moser axles

07-20-2001, 01:32 PM	#8
429mustang Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: westerville, OH USA Posts: 618	D&D Auto Specialties www.mspmall.com/ddautospec/index.html also, try www.kaufmann products.com ------------------ 86 Mustang GT w/pretty stock 93 5.0 (cam,pulleys,injectors, throttlebody,h-pipe) Motor to be swapped for a 1970 429 +.030, ported heads, solid roller cam, victor intake, 10.2:1 comp, C-6 trans, 3:73 rearend W/moser axles

07-20-2001, 03:42 PM	#9
LX NCH 50 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Schaumburg, IL, USA Posts: 31	Thanks for the links, those sites have some nice prices on their producs. But I have one question that I don't know the answer to. Is it possible to use a T-5z with the 460? Can I get a special bell-housing, and will I be able to bolt up to the flywheel? If anyone can answer this for me I would greatly appriciate it. -Kevin

07-20-2001, 05:02 PM	#10
429mustang Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: westerville, OH USA Posts: 618	I havn't seen any bellhousings for a T-5 to bolt up to a 460, but even if you found one the T-5 would get trashed pretty quick. T-5's can handle aroun 330 lbs/ft of torque, a stock 1970 460 puts out around 360 hp-480 lbs/ft torque. If you still want a manual, check out 4 speed toploaders. I looked into them a while ago, they can handle a lot more than a T-5, but they don't have an overdrive gear (although neither does a C-6), so if you don't care about overdrive, I'd go with one of those or the C-6 auto. I heard it's a little more complicated to fit up the Toploader as far as the headers clearing the clutch linkage, etc but it can be done. The toploaders go for around $900-1000 w/out the bell housing. Check out www.4speedtoploaders.com , they have toploaders + parts for swapping them into mustangs w/bigblocks. ------------------ 86 Mustang GT w/pretty stock 93 5.0 (cam,pulleys,injectors, throttlebody,h-pipe) Motor to be swapped for a 1970 429 +.030, ported heads, solid roller cam, victor intake, 10.2:1 comp, C-6 trans, 3:73 rearend W/moser axles

07-20-2001, 10:51 PM	#11
Red514LX Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 119	Hey, I encourage you to join the bigblockfox mailing list. There are about 125 or so members now. All of us are working on our own Ford-based big block projects. The address is: http://www.egroups.com/group/bigblockfox Also try: http://www.bigblockmustangs.com/ You are correct in that the earlier blocks are much better for sustaining higher hp than the newer late-model blocks. What years are the strongest I do not know but some members on the bigblockfox mailing list will know for sure. If you are going to use D0VE (it's actually a zero) heads -- block strength will not be much of an issue because you won't be making any big hp (700+). I would HIGHLY advise agaist purchasing a 460-based crate motor from Ford. They come with rather weak rods (although I guess now they offer an Eagle rod option which is nice). The moderator of bigblockfox broke his natrually aspirated "stock" 514 crate motor after only 24 or so passes -- and it was a rod that failed. The 514 crate motor, for reference, makes ~600hp and he ran ~133mph on motor. I also would very highly advice agaist using the D0VE head. At a bare miniumum you'll want to look into the Cobra Jet cylinder head (the new revised ones). The next step up is the Blue Thunder Cylinder Head. Although TFS has a head on the market now, I really think the Blue Thunder is currently the best bang for the buck out there. TFS is rumored to be designed a great big block ford head that might get the nod over the blue thunder soon, however. I would advise NOT running a C4. A nicely prepped C6 is one choice. Another, often overlooked choice, however, is the TH400 -- yes, a Brand X tranny. The TH400 has the advantages of being lighter and having less rotating mass than the bulky C6. Thus, the TH400 consumes less hp. It's a 3 speed. Finally, as I hinted at earlier, I HIGHLY reccomend upgrading to at least an eagle rod. I think that for a novice mechanic, going the 460 route is NOT a piece of cake. Thus, unless you have plans to run 10s or quicker OR you have a strong desire to "be different" you should look at a built 302 or 351. However, if you want to run 10s (or heck, even 9s) on motor and 8s or 7s or whatever with a power adder, then the big block route is for you! A 5" cowl hood should net you enough hood clearance. How you set the motor in the engine bay will be key in determining how much hood clearance you have. I encourage you to use a motor plate to mount the engine. You can use engine mounts -- but I think the motor plate is a much better way to go. Total Performance, who has extensive experience with 460-based swaps, offers a motor plate package and can assist you with any questions you may have about the swap. Yes, you will need custom headers as well. I don't know about the T5 or the oil pan. A T5 would live w/ a 460 as long as you didn't attach slicks and drive the snot out of it. Cooling is a BIG issue with doing a 460 swap. I think electric fans (yes, more than one) is a must. Best of luck to you and I hope to see you post on the mailing list. ------------------ Jeff Kane 1990 LX Mustang Coupe