Overweight passengers having to purchase 2 seats, fair or not fair

[Dark_5.0]

Alot of discussion is going on about wether or not is fair that overweight passengers will now be forced to purchase 2 airline tickets.

I say hell yes its fair why should an overweight person make the other people suffer that have to sit next to them.

The company I work for has season tickets for the local semi-pro hockey team. There is a really obese guy that has season tickets right next to our seats. We have seats 1-4 and he has seats 5-6.
We can only seat three cause this guy sits in seat 5 and hangs over into seat 4 and 6. This guy should have to buy three seats cause noone can possibly sit on either side of him.

To my surprise the office where I work is split in half on wether or not its fair to make them purchase two tickets.

What do yall think?

[WADS56]

I'm going with yes and no. Everyone has to pay the same price for tickets so everyone should deserve the same comfort. I am not fat but I am 6'8 and it is almost impossible for me to fit my legs between my seat and the row infront of me. I have to sit spread eagle to fit and it bothers the people next to me. People should not have to suffer for my height, but I should be entitled to the same comfort as other people. What it boils down to is... I think that they should give people more room, and less seating. Even normal people feel crowded.

[lysacat]

I have to agree with this one. The seats are made for people that are about 5'6" and about 100 pounds. You can't even move without bumping the person next to you. All the stadiums think about it how many people they can squeeze in and how much money they can make off it.

[PKRWUD]

I'm 6', 220lbs., with a 50" chest, and I have been (+/- 20 pounds) for the past 20 years. I fly an average of twice a year, cross country. I can tell you without any doubt at all that the seats, and the legroom, are shrinking. It's a much more snug fit than it used to be. My shoulders are always against the person next to me. Forget about trying to eat a "meal"! There is, for me, no elbow room at all. If they are going to reduce the seating area, then no, I don't think they should charge for 2 seats, but, if they were to restore the seating area to the way it was 15 years ago, then yes, I do. The way it was, a 300 pound person could fit in one seat. Now, it's snug for me.

Take care,
-Chris

[PKRWUD]

BTW, I have been flying Delta for the better part of the past 10 years, except for my last trip to Florida in December. For that trip, I flew on United, and I must say, there was a very noticable difference in the size of the seating area! United was MUCH more comfortable! The seats were probably an inch or more wider, and there was several more inches between the rows. It reminded me of the way it used to be.

Take care,
-Chris

[Mr 5 0]

I think that first, airline seats are too small but since that factor probably won't change anytime soon I would say that forcing extra-heavy plane passengers to pay for two seats is probably a form of discrimination and not legally enforcable. They're singling out passengers with a weight problem and that sure smells of blatant discrimination although it also seems somewhat sensible from a business standpoint.

I've read that most airline customer service complaints are either about baggage handling (duh) and overcrowding due to overweight people slopping over the seats. This may be a reaction to those complaints but expect ACLU lawsuits in a minute or two.

One of the problems is equal treatment. The airlines don't charge tiny people less for a seat nor do they charge extra-tall people more for taking up more leg room so how can the airlines justify charging overweight people for an extra seat?

In any case, as airline seats aren't going to get much bigger and America has a bounty of obese people - who need to fly - I'll make a few suggestions to help cope with the problem for those who do much commercial flying.

1. Fly during off-peak times when flights are less full.

The odds of getting stuck next to an obese person or charged for an extra seat if you're obese are much less on off-peak flights.

2. Travel with someone.

If you're big, being seated next to a friend or family member means you can lift that armrest without being embarrassed or getting into a fight.

3. Move.

Remember, as soon as the cabin door closes, you can claim any available seat - or cluster of seats - within your class of service.

4. Fly first class. The seats are a lot bigger.

5. Ask for help.

In the past, gate agents used to upgrade tall or overweight passengers who needed more space. It still happens, but not as often.

Bottom line: Deal with it as best you can.

[Hammer]

I'm also split on this issue...

If the seating area was a reasonable amount, and you're STILL too big, then you should have to pay for 2 seats. Let's face it, there's A LOT of really obese people in this country, and when it comes down to it, the cost of the flight comes down to weight and space. That's how airlines\transport companies price shipping for everything else.... how much weight you carry determines to some extent how much fuel you need and the package sizes may determine what kind of aircraft you can use, etc... etc...
Have you ever seen those boxes in which your carry-on has to fit before you can put it on the plane?
There's a reason for that....

The other side of the coin is this:
I'm a small guy, and sitting in coach is just about the most uncomfortable 2 hours I can think of. If I feel confined, I couldn't imagine how a regular to large (but not obese) person might feel.

If the seats were a bit bigger, I wouldn't have any opposition to the "mandatory purchase" rule...

[PKRWUD]

You can also request a seat in an emergency exit row. They are wider to allow for passengers to walk through, should they have to use the emergency exit. The result is all kinds of leg room.

Take care,
-Chris

[1BAD89]

I flew to Hawaii last year: 8 1/2 hour straight flight. I was not seated next to an overly "fat" person, but I was extremely uncomfortable. 10+ seats to a row in coach just doesn't cut it; too cramped. Now the 2 per row, yes I said 2, lazy boy leather seats in first class sure did look nice. Too bad I'm not filthy rich, because that is all I would fly if I had the cash.

Now answer me this, for those of you agreeing that an overly "fat" person should buy 2 seats. What if the person is seriously "obese", I'm talking 3-4 chairs, are you then going to tell him/her that he needs to purchase 3-4 seats on the plane? No way... they'll never fly, too expensive, & embarassing.

Should overly "obese" people - if they feel the need - be able to request an extra seat? No, that option would be abused by people, that wouldn't work out. It wouldn't seem fair to the other passengers that weren't obese, nor does it seems fair to me. That's special treatment.

I've never been trapped in my seat by an "obese" person, made uncomfortable by normal people & the lack of seating space, yes. I say make "obese" chairs in the corner and make em pay extra if they want. But then again, I'd buy an 'obese' chair so I could be comfortable. What? $30 more? Heck yeah.

I have mixed feelings about this subject, so I'll just stop here andsuggest listening to Mr 5 0's tips, then - it really won't matter.

[srv1]

my answer is no. why should obese people pay more? like the others said, would a tiny person pay less? no. try to put yourself in their shoes and see how you would feel to be asked to pay for two seats cause you have a weight problem. that would make your day now wouldnt it? its total discrimination. i say let those multi million/billion airline industries that have been bending us over and sticking their high price plane fairs up our asz to redesign the old planes or design new ones for the obese or other impaired people in mind. i know it will cost alot of money to do something like that, but its not like they dont have the money. even after Sept. 11th, tickets went down in price, but they will go back up again anyways. it like saying asking gas companies to be more competitive in their gas prices! HA! just my two cents.....

[FivepointOH]

The airlines do need to make more seating room but for the overly "big" person they should have a special section with less seats per row and charge a little more. Kind of like first class without all the extras... well maybe they could get extra big meals too.

[Unit 5302]

Absolutely. If they are taking up 2 seats of space, they should have to pay for two tickets. I don't understand the concerns here. Why should the majority have to pay for the minority? If the flight is booked and you have some 400lb beach ball next to you taking up his/her seat, and yours, what are you going to do?

Air freight companies charge by weight, this can simply be a surcharge. Is it discriminatory to charge more for a heavy package? LOL. If airlines flew a whole flight of 400lbers they'd be seriously heavy, and it would cost them more money.

If they're too weak to control their own eating habits, it's not my fault. I don't wanna pay for it, and they should be forced to purchase 1st class tickets where the room is sufficient.

Not only are they an annoyance, they are a danger. A 400lb person who's physically incapable of properly navagating an aircraft appropriately is a life threatening danger in the event of a crash. I'm sorry, I just don't go for all the politically correctness here.

[Hammer]

its total discrimination. i say let those multi million/billion airline industries that have been bending us over and sticking their high price plane fairs up our asz to redesign the old planes or design new ones for the obese or other impaired people in mind.

Srv,
The last thing I would want to do is discriminate against someone, but you also have to see it from the company's point of view. If I were a stockholder and someone told me that I should support seats that would make 100% of the people who could possibly fly comfortable, put them all throughout coach, and not raise the ticket prices to astronomical levels, I would tell you to go blow it out your ear.

If I can make 90% of the people who fly "somewhat" comfortable in coach, and make the other 10% buy first class or other "special" accomodations, considering I might lose a certain percentage of customers, I might still make a decent profit and still have a high customer approval level. It's all about money man, and as long as we live in a free market economy, its not going to change.

I agree that coach seats are too small, but catering to what I feel is a small percentage of people (extremely obese) by making all seats much bigger is the wrong solution. Either make a small amount of "deluxe" seats in coach or, as is being looked at now, have them purchase 2 seats.

There's going to have to be a middle ground, and I'm sure they'll find it....

[srv1]

Originally posted by Hammer


Srv,
The last thing I would want to do is discriminate against someone, but you also have to see it from the company's point of view. If I were a stockholder and someone told me that I should support seats that would make 100% of the people who could possibly fly comfortable, put them all throughout coach, and not raise the ticket prices to astronomical levels, I would tell you to go blow it out your ear.

If I can make 90% of the people who fly "somewhat" comfortable in coach, and make the other 10% buy first class or other "special" accomodations, considering I might lose a certain percentage of customers, I might still make a decent profit and still have a high customer approval level. It's all about money man, and as long as we live in a free market economy, its not going to change.

i agree on the second part. that is what i was trying to say. but again i do not stick up for big corporations nor do i invest in them(stocks). my preference of course. i see where you are coming from, but just think about it if you were obese. i think we(Americans) tend to care more about money (generally speaking!) than the quality of life. just how i see it. damn if you do, damn if you dont

[Mr 5 0]

Unit/Hammer:

You guys may be on to something here.

If the airlines charged passengers by their weight (per pound) it would be totally equitable. After all, they treat passengers like cattle anyway so why not use a standard non-discriminatory standard of charging for tickets and this way, they can cover any potential e:xtra expense of providing extra-large seating or any other special accomodation they may be forced to make in the future for overweight passengers.

I like it.

************************

srv1

Your comment: i say let those multi million/billion airline industries that have been bending us over and sticking their high price plane fairs up our asz...

Almost all the major airline passenger carriers have been bleeding money losses since 9/11. We're talking hundreds of millions in losses per quarter. They are looking for billion-dollar federal loan guarantees to survive. Some have already folded or merged.

Airlines are a business. They must make a profit to survive. Stockholders demand profits. The airlines are looking to cut costs wherever possible, naturally, that's the reason for the packed cabins we have to endure.

The whole debate over making obese people pay for a second seat is mostly based on selling more seats as well as the normal-sized passengers comfort, which rates a distant second with airline executives concerns.

I think paying by the pound is a splendid way to resolve the problem. Fat people pay their way without forcing normal sized folks to pay extra and with special 'phat seats' the problem is solved.

Mustang Works solves another national problem!

Next?

[2000stanggirl]

I am also split. On one hand, I wouldn't want to be crowded by a morbidly obese person sitting next to me. On the other hand, they have rights just like the rest of us. I see it this way, my son, who is multi-handicapable requires special accomodations when traveling. Why should I have to pay extra for those accomodations? If he needs extra room for his medical equipment, then we sit in the bulk head seats. If he needs oxygen while on the airliner, then they should provide that, since they will not (cannot) allow us to bring his tanks.

I think ADA will be all over this one with the airlines. Obesity is concidered a disability, and they will demand that airlines incorporate accessible seating.

[jimberg]

Charging by weight may be fair because it would apply to everyone equally, but it really doesn't address the problem. The seats are a fixed size and fat people will still be spilling over. Replacing all of the individual seats with bench seats would make divvying up the space easier and could make the weight thing work. They'd have to make sure there are enough 02 masks and seatbelts for everyone in the bench, though. Another problem with going by weight, though, is that some people are more solid than others. A bodybuilder could fit easily in a seat but weigh quite a bit more than someone who is fat and spilling over.

This reminds me of a story that was overshadowed by Sept. 11. Do you guys remember how a woman died during a flight because the seating caused blood clots in her legs? Everyone was outraged and then, boom, Sept. 11.

Every seat should be designed to be comfortable for a 6 foot, male that weighs about 220 lbs.

[Hammer]

I think ADA will be all over this one with the airlines. Obesity is concidered a disability, and they will demand that airlines incorporate accessible seating.

Hmmm, This could become a whole different thread...

Before I start this, let me assure all of you that I'm not some heartless, ultra right wing crazy who worships the smell of money over the misfortunes of others, but in general I believe many Americans tend to mix up "rights" with "wants". I hear every day on the news that people should have the "right" to this and "right" to that when some of this stuff is just as moronic as a 16 year old telling his parents that he has a "right" to have a car and cell phone. (I've actually heard that before...)

There is a BIG difference between stanggirl's son who has a true disability (something not of his own making and cannot be corrected), and true, overt obesity. While there is truth in hereditary heavyness, the worst cases are almost ALWAYS self made. In these cases, the issue was self-made and CAN be corrected. These cases should not be considered a disability. What's the difference between me paying for someone's larger "phat" seat and paying for the extra food they need to satisfy their increased appetite? While this is a bit of a stretch, the principle is the same....

While I do feel sorry for many of these folks, paying for them in respects of tax-paid reserve parking spots, motor scooters, counseling, health bills, and what some might want... higher plane fares to accomodate the excessively obese is just plain wrong. As I said before, there is a difference between a true disability and something that can be corrected (or at least reduced) with some effort.

As far as the "rights" issues I stated above, last time I checked, there was no "right" to a comfortable airline seat, or even the "right" to fly at all.... There is no "right" to own or ride in a privately owned vehicle (whether owned by a person or company). Public transportation, since it is government funded and essentially "owned" by all Americans is an exception and should have provisions for most (if not all) citizens.

We do not live in a true free market economy. Although it is close, a true free market economy would not be forced to provide handicapped parking spaces, wheelchair ramps, speed bumps... etc... etc. (Please realize that I'm not advocating this...)
The businesses would live and die by their clientel.... You can bet some businesses would build wheelchair access without being made to do it to get the business of the handicapped.
You can also go the other extreme of funding EVERYTHING for EVERYONE..... ask the Canadians how much they love their taxes and health care system.

A middle ground is what is called for, and I think we've done quite well...

Let me remind all of you that there used to be a "option" to deny service.... businesses can still exercise that option, but you can bet your butt they'll get slapped with a lawsuit if a bum walks into a restaurant with no shoes, no shirt, torn, rancid pants and gets thrown out, they'll be accused of "discrimination" against the "economically challenged".

My point is simply this:
If you're overtly obese and you want a bigger door on your house you pay for it...
You want a bigger car so can comfortably drive?
You pay for it...
You have a larger appetite?
You pay for it...

You need a bigger seat on an airplane?
YOU PAY FOR IT

I absolutely 100% agree with Hammer on this. I think that if you are big enough to take 2 seats then, you pay for 2 seats. I also agree that those seats are too damn small but at the low fares they charge, I can sit uncomfortablely for a few hours. The airlines were in trouble way before 9/11, 9/11 just brought it to a head.

My thoughts, if you need anything 'special' to ride you need to get first class. You get benefits from having a disability, this is what those benefits are for.. Believe me, I know that at anytime I may be disabled and I will get benefits that the working people pay for and I don't think I should inconvinence those people with my disability. I think the weight/space issue is a great idea and I'm sure the airlines will catch on if they haven't already.

Folks, keep bleeding the airlines and you will no longer have the option to fly.

I'd also like to add this thought... Flying is a luxury.