What does it take for a stock Fox body to keep up with a late model Z28 SS?
 

Anyone know what HP/times these cars have? Aren't they something like 5.7L? I guess right off the bat we are giving them 48 cubes so its not like comparing apples to apples. My guess it that they are around 320HP. They do look a little fat, though. What is their HP/lb ratio? Just wondering what HP should I shoot for it I wanted to keep up with one of these...

being a good driver you should be able to beat z28's all day long but on the other hand if it is a ss then it is going to take a little bit more

later

A good driver....I beat my friends 2002 Trans Am WS6 6-speed with my brothers stock 87 GT.

Look at my sig. I can beat a 2001 SS easy at the track. Around here they run 13.40@105 stock, but very from place to place.

New SS Camaros make about 320 hp and if I remember right, weigh in the 3400 neighborhood. The engine is a 5.7 Liter LS1, unless it's an older 4th gen SS, which has an LT1 making less power.

the new ss camaro's hp #s are unrated...

best ive seen one do is near 13flat stock though....so beat that...:)...course, thats a good driver..

did he keep it in 1st gear and the race was for 5miles? theres no way in hell a stock WS6 would lose to a stock 87GT...

4.10's ,slicks, full exhaust a lil' weight reduction and bolt ons usually does the job.

LS-1's run 13.8- 14.4 here @3000ft

Camaro hp #'s for the last model year, 2002, are very rated.. Check Chevy.com. 325 @ 5200 Horsepower. The Z28 got 310 hp @ 5200.

The SS's come standard with a 4 speed auto but optional is a 6 speed. They have a Zexel Torsen differential which is great for launch...the ONLY downfall to these differentials is they cannot handle horsepower. They work WAY better than a traditional limited slip unit.

I have a friend that had a 2002 SS. With just exhaust, it made 331 rwhp. He no longer has it but it was damn quick!!

What are you guys talking about:confused: Mustangs cant beat LS1's. The are unbeatable, and hand assembled by God.

jj...........i'm telling you I raced him and won. My brothers car has a cat-back exhaust, thats it! The car runs 14.0@96 all day long, with over 200,000 miles on it. My friends WS6 ran the best of 13.7@103. I'm not tring to brag, but I know I can drive stick better than him. I ran 13.9@100 with the WS6. It has that crappy hydralic clutch.


Latter :D

So, with all other things being equal, I would need is about 300+ rwhp? That about 340-350 hp at the motor. Hmmmm... it will take quite a bit to get there. Am I pretty close with these numbers?

Lets just face it.........The war is over FORD won! They don't even make the Camaro og TA any more!!!!

Now its on to the IMPORTS!!! :D :D :D

Ha ha...Ford won...yes...which still irritates me. I'm GM at heart....I just own a Ford because I found it cheap and I can't afford more right now. Can't beat cheap power.

But yeah, LS1's are a godsend. Glorious motors. Too complicated though..they're very high tech. Wanna know an even better motor? The LS6...just like the LS1 took over for the LT1, the LS6 is the next one..that's the motor in the new Z06 Corvettes. Can we say 405 hp stock? Wow...not even the 2002 SVT Cobras could keep up with that...although they came damn close, and were priced much better. I have to admit..that car really was well done. 390 hp, 390 ft lbs, a pricetag, if I'm not mistaken, LESS than a BASE MODEL vette... Only thing the Mustang had nothing on the Vette with was handling.

It's been proven time and time again, there is no significant power differences between the base Z28 and an SS. Both are LS1 powered (98-02). Typically the base Z28 is as quick or quicker due to a slight weight advantage over the SS.

The horsepower differences are only slight. 310 versus 325. Sure, 15 horsepower sounds like a lot when you're only making, say 150...but when you're over 300 hp, 15 hp isn't going to make a hell of a lot of a difference....at that point it just boils down to driver skill.

Kinda disappointing they only gave the SS 325 horses...only 15 more than a base Z. But I know why. The base model Corvette was making, I think in the 360 or so neighborhood, and they couldn't have the Camaro coming close to or tying the vette...it's just taboo with Chevy. Hell, back in 89 when Pontiac released the Turbo Trans-Am, they underrated its horsepower because it was too close to the vettes and GM execs were getting nervous. Severely underrated its power. It was posted as about 240 horsepower I believe...but in actuality tests showed it to make closer to 300. And that is a Turbocharged, intercooled 3.8 V6. Amazing...

First you say the 87 is stock.


Then it has a catback. What else you hiding? I love the mustang as much as anybody, but the LS1 deserves much respest. Both cars being stock or close to stock, the mustang with a good driver will win off the line due to better gearing and less weight, but once the LS1 gets moving, it's going to blow by an 87' with 200K miles on it. Either your brother has a freak 87' or the LS1 was running on 7 cyls.

No flames intended, but I've seen enough of both cars in action. Some of you guys are in for a rude awakening when you run one.

I know enough to rev at an LS1 but not to try anything more than that. Although I might get the jump on it once I gain traction through first and some of second possibly just due to the 4.11 rear.

Ok, a few things here...the new Cobra's are a 03 model not a 02 model. No Cobra's were produced in 2002. And second, the 390hp rating that Ford gave the Cobra's is underrated. They make closer to 410-420 bhp.

My bad..not thinking clearly. They underrated the power? Huh.. Dang. Well they still won't beat a Z06...too damn heavy. Those beasts weigh in at like 3800 lbs if I remember the Car and Driver writeup right.

Btw, I don't know Ford stats mostly because I don't like Ford. :D

Wanna bet? 306 N/A

I reckin you better move on down the line ... chevy man !! Other wise you better pull them pistols, cause thems fightin words in these parts :mad:

Ha ha...well, I wear my Chevy Racing hat driving my Ford...what's that tell ya? I can't argue with cheap power, and that's what this stang is..a whole sh*tload of cheap power. Only other car I've owned is a 91 Camaro RS with minor mods...and the best I've ever done 0-60 was 8.28...16.48 @ 85~ 1/4 mile... It's got nowhere close to anything on the Mustang, except handling.

My dream car is a Chevy, and I don't care much for Ford as a company, but I do think the Mustangs have a lot more balls than I originally thought, especially since I own one now. Never knew they came with 225 horses...that doesn't get mentioned on the GM sites with Ford stats mentioned..they only mention the standard 5.0, 200 horses, not the H.O.

But that's beside the point.. I own a Ford, I like my Ford, I need help to fix my Ford, and I am gonna treat this thing good, even though it will be my daily street beater (can't help it here...)...

So....sorry to rub anyone the wrong way, but ya know what they say...to each their own.

maybe youre thinking of the LT1 late-model camaros? cuz trust me...the z28 is slower than the SS...both are fast, but the SS hauls on the Z28...hell the SSs keep up with the vettes (not z06) until about 80mph...91gtturbo is right...the LS1 deserves more respect...an 02 z, vs an 02 GT (both stock, manual, coupe) and the Z would win hands down...and the 02SS would just fly past em both...and the 03 cobra would fly around that...stock GTs are the slowest of the 2002 ponycars...no matter how many times you wanna look at it...

That you look like a moron while driving.
and what does that tell ya?

But you care about chevy's that dont have cheap power, and then stop production on their only pony car's? to each his own i guess.:confused:

Seen both on the dyno and seen both run at the track a number of times, both the base Z28 and SS put out almost the same numbers. If the SS has ever option from SLP, then yes it is a few tenths faster in the 1/4 (but how many people have them like that), other than that, they're almost identical.

those slp options are more than just looks? no wonder i always think my brother's SS is so much faster than you guys keep saying...hes got most of the slp options on his 02...lol..so there is a difference...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nixon1
Ha ha...well, I wear my Chevy Racing hat driving my Ford...what's that tell ya?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, this says that I have no other decent hats and don't want to buy another.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[i]Only other car I've owned is a 91 Camaro RS with minor mods...and the best I've ever done 0-60 was 8.28...16.48 @ 85~ 1/4 mile... It's got nowhere close to anything on the Mustang, except handling.[/B]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That means that I'M POOR and bought the Mustang for $3000 because there was no hope in hell of finding an F-Body with the same amount of modification, in decent shape, for that price. Also...that time is with a 3.1 liter V-6 making only 140 horsepower stock, with an automatic, on a car about as heavy as a V8 Foxbody. I'd like to see you do better!


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[i]and I don't care much for Ford as a company[/B]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And actually Chevy has cheap power..it's called a Third Generation F-Body. Aftermarket for them is almost as large as for a Fox Body...their only disadvantage is weight, but they are power and torque monsters and out-handle a Mustang despite the extra fat...especially the TPI 5.7's....and the older carbed L69's were decent for their time too.
================================

On the other topic, the SS's and Z28's are very close.... They're both running the same motor, and power levels are very similar..the SS is just more 'refined'. The hood scoop is also functional if I remember correctly, and you can opt for a 6 speed on them....don't know if you can on the Z's or not.

k, i asked him....basically the only thing he doesnt have from SLP is the suspension and silly little things like floormats and a plaque...

but he said that the Z's and SS's are pretty close at the track cuz the ram air doesnt do much at the track, but on the street he tends to walk all over the Z's...especially the pre-2001 ones...thats when they did the LS1 conversion (aside form the few limited edition pre-2001 LS1 Z28s that were slower anyways - i know someone who has one...nothing special)...

so there ya go :)

I dont intend to turn his into a flame, but the 3rd gen has nowhere near the aftermarket of 5.0's, they might eventually.

Tpi's were competitive in stock form, with the first of the efi stangs barely edging them out, But imo with just minor mods the 5.0 would wake up and rape the tpi badly, i however practice this matchup with a friend of mine every wendsday, with his 87 iroc and some minor mods, pretty original, even with him on stickies and rear grs, he has no chance.
I dont consider 600$ headers a cheap mod:rolleyes:

Stock TPI intakes have wayyy to long runners for good top end power. A intake swap with a Accel mini ram or super ram is needed to improve things.

LT-1 or LS-1 swaps go great in a G-3 Camaro too. But wasn't this thread about racing against Stock LS-1 Camaro's and SS's??

To be fair the 02 SS should be compared to a 01 ( or fixed 99) Cobra, not a "stock" 87-93 Mustang, as the SS Camaro was 'bout $ 30,000 with all the goodies.

Probably why some have said there is no difference between the Z-28 and SS is that all the SS really involves is a ram air kit, and optional Torsen diff, and cat back exhaust. Most Z-28's on the track will already have a cold air kit, and cat back exhaust. I can't imagine anyone running at the track with the crappy stock Z-28 airbox very long. Once that is gone a Z-28 will run just as fast as a SS

Mag published times tend toward 13.2 - 13.5 for a real stock SS and 13.6 - 13.9 for a real stock Z-28. I remember a 13.2 time for the last 01 Cobra test I saw.

The guys with Autos probably are guaranteed sub 14 times as you just need to mash and go. The GM A-4 does not slow the car down like a AOD does. The T-56 cars are more prone to driver skill. I can easily see some dorks posting low 14's in a car that can run low 13's cus they have no skill.

Well the SS does beat the Z for the most part but on track they run about even. They both come in a 6-speed and it all depends on the driver.

As for the LS-1 swap , 1998 was the year they did the conversion from the LT-1. Thats why if you went out camero or trans am shoping you would find that the pre-98 modles are a bit cheaper than the 1998-up modles. The LS-1 puts out between 310-325 hp depending on what kind of upgrades you have added to your car stock. The LT-1 pushes about 285-295 stock hp also depending on mods.

I have yet to run up with one of these, I do not know what my car runs with the stock gears in it (88 gt 5-speed) but i think that i could hang with one.
Bryan

I won't argue this point...5.0's have the biggest aftermarket out there. I was shocked when I looked through a copy of the Summit magazine.. Although Third Gens do have a very large aftermarket as well compared to other cars, nothing can beat a fox-body in those respects.

medik413,

Congrats on your new Marine, let me say on behalf of the United States Marine Corps, welcome to our family. We will take care of him and thank you for supporting your country.

Semper Fidelis
Sgt King
USMC
Currently deployed in the gulf.

OORAH

Sgt. King, thank you so much for the words of encouragement and I pray for all of you and I thank you for what you do. My son asked me if he was making a mistake when he joined because all of his freinds said he was crazy. I told him how proud I was of him and that yes, I did think his timing pretty much sucked. This was last December just at the beginning of the Afghanistan thing and I know this will be a long row to hoe for you guys. I know there are a lot of folks in the world who don't agree with what might happen in Iraq. Please rest assured Sgt. King that you will have this family's undying support and most importantly, our prayers. . .all of you. THanks to the rest of you for letting me rant and I apologize for getting off on this tangent.
Semper Fi!

my dad has a 2001 Ls1 trans am with the nhra package, 6 speed with the slp ram air, maf, and 160 degree thermostat and fan switch and i ran him at the track with my gt-40 heads and stock roller rockers on slicks and i went a 13.03 @ 103 and he went a 13.15 @108 on radials with the clutch slipping. And i mean you could smell the clutch for awhile after that pass too. I was pretty impressed. That car will go 12's with a better clutch easily. Not bad for a basically stock car.

The LS1 Trans Ams from SLP are incredible... With a trap speed like 108, he could've easily done mid 12's...that's the problem though, getting the power to the ground without tirespin, clutch slip, missed/granny shifts, etc. That's the one reason that I'm glad I have an auto...only one thing to focus on, which is gas pedal manipulation. I gotta be careful how much gas I lay down until the top end of first gear too..laying the pedal down anywhere below, say, 4000 rpms (I dont know speed cause speedometer is broken), and I break traction in the rear....but man is it awesome. :D :D :D

I have driven/been in several fox 5.0 cars including some police interceptors and they wouldnt run with my buddies stock 2002 ram air. I would have think you would want a set of heads and an intake before messing with them. My car dynos at just over 300/310 and I can walk him nicely.

I know I am late getting in on this thread, but I found it to be funny.

The Z06 vette is a far superior vehicle than an 03' cobra. Most people dont realize that vettes only weigh about 3200 lbs.

The SS and the Z-28 run nearly identical times.

There is no way in hell a stock or near stock 5.0 will hang with a LS-1 in the big end.

My 01' cobra is very similar in power to an LS-1 and I totaly and completetly destroy stock or near stock 5.0's.

After many mods on my 5.0 I am just now getting to where I beat LS-1's more than I lose.

A convertible automatic LS-1 with a fat chick in the back would still spank a 5.0 5 speed with a good driver.

JMO,

Not much out there will hang with a ZO6....combine the weight with the power and it's one very very badass car...

I'd kill for a 2002 Lingenfelter Corvette... Twin Turbo aluminum block 427, over 800 hp, 1.9 second 0-60 and best 1/4 mile: 8.95 @ 152 or so (I think)...with a top speed of in the 240 mph area....best part is, it's a 4 speed automatic!!! AND this car will walk all over a Hennessey Viper, even though the Viper has more horsepower....talk about defying the laws of physics.

true.

you mean in the 1/4? maybe you should drive down here, and try my near stock 5 liter.

would you consider my car "many" mods? i wouldnt, just all the cheaper add on's, nothing that counts, like heads/cam/poweradder, i beat more than lost to.

now are you talking the 1/4? if so, then refer to the 3rd quote.

90 Police coupe 5 spd: Blkmgk elec fan, crane 1.7's, 73mm maf, bbk 65mm tb, mac h-pipe, mac subframe connectors, mac cai, Asp crank pulley, 3.27 grs, flowtech 1-5/8 unequals, ADS chip, Frpp driveshaft, lakewood control arms, Stock heads, intk, block and cam.
race weight 3,120
________________________________________

i wouldnt consider you anywhere near stock so your arguements really makes no since. With your "Nothing that counts" mods you have knocked about 1 1/2 seconds off of your ET.

The time in your sig was ran on ET streets. If I slapped some slicks on my Cobra I am sure it would run a real low 13.

I am not driving 6 hours to San Antonio and you are not driving 6 hours to Odessa so we will never know.

My cobra is just my grocery getter/ daily driver. My 5.0 is my race car my 88GT vert was running a 13.6 @102mph on Nitto's.

I have since dropped the engine and tranny out of the 88 into a 90LX and added a few more mods along with some slicks.

When the track opens I fully expect to run a 12 with a good mph and give the LS-1's hell.

I dont doubt your car is fast and when I was talking trash about stock 5.0 vs LS-1 I wasnt reffering to your moderatly modded stang.

Later,

mph??
 

I'm sure your car is fast, and you probably beat a lot of LS-1s, especially if you race from a stop. But how fast do you race them up to? Your 1/4 mile time is impressive for the mods you have...but your mph proves that an even stock LS-1 would take you on the top end. I've seen many stock or near stock LS-1s pulling mid-low 13s...with trap speeds in the 104-108mph range. And most of those times are on radials.

Personally...I think we're beating a dead fish here... :o

I never said i can beat ls's or cobras past the 1/4? my car is also a daily driver, i drive 40 miles round every day,

in my sig, you will see that e.t. was "before the tb and maf", probaly the most expensive mods i have besides the rockers.
you make it sound like im bragging on how fast i am? that is not true,(by no means am i a powerhouse stang lol) just stating how a near stock n/a cobra would not pull me in the 1/4.

I havent knocked that much time off, with air silencer, front swaybar removal, advnced timing, i was running 13.9@ 97 mph on 225/60/15's?
not bragging, just saying these exhaust mods, rockers, and e.t. streets only knocked off 7 tenths, not quite a full second, remember the coupes were in the 14.2 range bone stock with some skillz...:) and my car is up around 195k miles.

well id take the challenge of the cobra on stickies though, 600 miles is kinda far, but id make it...heh

well id take the challenge of the cobra on stickies though, 600 miles is kinda far, but id make it...heh
_________________________________________

Maybe we can meet up in San Angelo some day. The elevation there is 2000ft compared to 3000ft here.

My 15 inch slicks wont go on the cobra cause a 15 inch rim wont fit over the back rotors. I will probably buy some nitto drag radials for it soon.

On Nittos I could pull off a 13.4 I bet..........Hell it would be fun if its possible for you to make it up there this summer let me know.

Although I would much rather take my 5.0 to the track. I would race you on the street with the cobra though if you want.

Later,

thats cool dark, im fixing to replace my e.t. streets with bfg dr's.

sanangelo is pretty far, i did drive up there in a company truck one day, who knows? but it would kinda suxor to drive that far for one of us to lose.....later