Windsor Jr's. ????? No respect ?????

5ohCOUPE · 01-26-2002, 11:49 AM

Ive seen a lot of people saying that windsor jr's or seniors are not that good of a head. Why is that?????? I have had great luck with my Jr's. Just look at my SIG. I think i am running a great 1/4 mile time with these heads. Am i the only one that has had luck with these heads. By the way they are bolted on right out of the box, no porting. Just wondering why these heads have no respect.

bosco · 01-26-2002, 12:12 PM

i have them, and i like them. Awsome performance and a great price, i payed a litle over 800 dollars for a set from summit, and id probably buy them again. I havent done any work to them yet either, but i might soon, see if i can get any more out of them

91GTturbo · 01-26-2002, 05:00 PM

If you go back and look at several of my last posts, I highly recommend them. I putting a set of jrs on my car now. Where did you hear someone saying something bad about them, I've never heard anyone say anything bad about them. Sure there are better heads out there, but for most people these would do just fine.

5ohCOUPE · 01-26-2002, 06:05 PM

I just have seen a lot of people recommend TFS or AFR over the Windsor Jr because the Windsor Jr's dont flow very good. But I guess some people dont realize that flow isnt everything. My friend had the Windsor Jr's on his car and went to the TFS heads and lost MPH and ET. The TFS or AFR are definately a better head but why spend that much money on them when you can get a cheaper head and run better. I guess its all in the combo of you engine that matters. I hope this post doesnt cause any flames, I was just wondering why most people would rather have the AFR or TFS.

I still say its all in the combo.

1BAD89 · 01-26-2002, 09:38 PM

Quote:

But I guess some people dont realize that flow isnt everything.

It is when your talking heads.

Unit 5302 · 01-26-2002, 09:59 PM

Well

#1 Windsor Jr's and Sr's do not have good peak flow when compared to the AFR's or TFS's.

#2 Windsor Jr's and Sr's have crappy flow curves, being very linear in flow rate as lift increases, much like stock heads.

#3 Windsor Jr's and Sr's have very large runners, which as a general rule makes for shitty port velocity and reduced low end performance.

#4 Windsor Jr's and Sr's are iron. Aluminum heads make it easier to run advanced timing, lighten the engine, and use forced induction.

The Windsor castings heads are built with flow and dimensions much more like the old 1960's technology. So, in my opinion spending $800 on the old iron heads, $1000 or $950 even for the TFS is a pretty good deal.

Stang Runner · 01-26-2002, 10:37 PM

(My friend had the Windsor Jr's on his car and went to the TFS heads and lost MPH and ET.) it might be do to the 58 chamber the world Jr. are and the 64cc the TFS TW. Flow Matters if you like it or not. I like that the AL is more forgiving in detonation too.

DirtKing · 01-28-2002, 02:27 PM

Part of the bad rep has to do with the "newest head" craze. Everybody is always interested in new products. Also, these heads came with rather "modest" hardware. Definately NOT race ready. In the past i ran ported sr's with good components and they rocked! Any head you buy had better have components matching your combo..(your springs better have enough seat pressure for your cam; valve size, type, locks, guides ect.) Also, people have gone crazy spouting flow numbers. Most quoted numbers are at .600 or higher. The majority of people on this board probably don't have lifts higher than .600! Also, most numbers are quoted without listing the port size. Any increase in port size hurts velocity...You can have awesome flow and have a motor that's top end only. Finally, all this number comparison usually doesn't consider low lift numbers. For any motor NOT race only, these are by far the most important. Yes there are better heads out..(windsor has new ones too), but people need to look at everything, not just peak flow numbers.

p.s. flow number can be manipulated just like the U.S. deficit! (flow benches need calibration, plus some people place devices next to the ports which results in "inflated" figures.)

Stang Runner · 01-28-2002, 03:40 PM

I had mine test I was there I had a friend do it for me and with out any Ad (like a pipe) Just the head and the flow beanch I got 2CFM EX flow that what AFR said BUT 9cfm less on the Intake. I looking in to World heads He had one right there in the shop new and showed me and showed me the flow ### That he had done... I well went with the AFR But with a port Job I can see the worlds doing very good. and may be less still than the AFR's. Would still have more wieght that is why I went the AL way.

bosco · 01-28-2002, 04:06 PM

man, you guys are makeing me wish i hadnt used these heads (windsor jr's). Would it be worth gettign new ones, or can these be worked and turn out ok

Stang Runner · 01-28-2002, 04:28 PM

Get a good port Jop On them will Make them very good Sice you have them I would them ported you could get like a $300-500 Job on them and be about the same cost as some AL heads. They can make very good Power. they Just need a hand to work them nicely

91GTturbo · 01-28-2002, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bosco
man, you guys are makeing me wish i hadnt used these heads (windsor jr's). Would it be worth gettign new ones, or can these be worked and turn out ok

My previous AOD GT ran 6.81 at 103 (1/8) with them. The car weighed 3180 lbs with me in it. My combo was pretty simple; 306, holley carb, 4.30 gear, 3500 stall, nitrous specific cam, 1-5/8" headers, 3" exhaust, enough fuel to power the space shuttle, and a 250 shot.

You might be able to spend a few hundred dollars more and get AFR's or TW, but 6.80's want lose out to too many people. I'm not the best with flow numbers, honestly I don't pay that much attention to them, I just go with what works, and Windsor Jrs and Srs work.

5ohCOUPE · 01-28-2002, 08:36 PM

I still would have gotten the Windsor Jr's if i had to do this all over again but i would have done one thing different. I would have gotten the Windsor Jr Aluminum heads. Im still kicking myself for not getting the aluminum Jr's. I like my Jr's and will never get another head because they work for me. Its all in the combo you have.

vetteeatr · 01-28-2002, 10:02 PM

Hey what kind of power band do these heads by the way

The seniors i mean

liek 2000 to 6000?

I was ognna get a holley systemax intake to go with them what do yu guys think?

DirtKing · 01-29-2002, 07:58 PM

I don't remember the stock senior power band...after I had mine ported that all went out the window anyway. I'd speculate their about 2400-6800 stock..big intake ports. I'm running afr 205's now, but I've got nothing bad to say about dart sr's or juniors. If you're not blown I'd stay with iron for the extra power, unless weight really pisses you off.

01-26-2002, 10:37 PM	#7
Stang Runner Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Walker, MI, USA Posts: 1,202	(My friend had the Windsor Jr's on his car and went to the TFS heads and lost MPH and ET.) it might be do to the 58 chamber the world Jr. are and the 64cc the TFS TW. Flow Matters if you like it or not. I like that the AL is more forgiving in detonation too. __________________ Engine: steel mounts, Under drive pulleys, K&N, GT-40 Intake ported Lower, No power steering, No A/C, Mac cold intake, 65MM TB, 255 Fuel pump, 24's, AFR 165 58cc, Rocker Arms 1.7with the stock Cam, 1 5/8 short headers, offRoad X-pipe Drive Train: 3.55, T-5 with a Pro 5.0 shifter 12.656@107.71MPH See It at www.T-racing.com/mustang.htm

01-28-2002, 02:27 PM	#8
DirtKing Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: brooklyn center,mn,USA Posts: 169	Part of the bad rep has to do with the "newest head" craze. Everybody is always interested in new products. Also, these heads came with rather "modest" hardware. Definately NOT race ready. In the past i ran ported sr's with good components and they rocked! Any head you buy had better have components matching your combo..(your springs better have enough seat pressure for your cam; valve size, type, locks, guides ect.) Also, people have gone crazy spouting flow numbers. Most quoted numbers are at .600 or higher. The majority of people on this board probably don't have lifts higher than .600! Also, most numbers are quoted without listing the port size. Any increase in port size hurts velocity...You can have awesome flow and have a motor that's top end only. Finally, all this number comparison usually doesn't consider low lift numbers. For any motor NOT race only, these are by far the most important. Yes there are better heads out..(windsor has new ones too), but people need to look at everything, not just peak flow numbers. p.s. flow number can be manipulated just like the U.S. deficit! (flow benches need calibration, plus some people place devices next to the ports which results in "inflated" figures.) __________________ 88LX notch, Speedpro EFI 358windsor 11.2 to 1 compression, 5 lug baer claws all around..g force t5 and 3.55 gears. rwhp soon to come. Oh yeah...92 octane NO detonation.

01-28-2002, 03:40 PM	#9
Stang Runner Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Walker, MI, USA Posts: 1,202	I had mine test I was there I had a friend do it for me and with out any Ad (like a pipe) Just the head and the flow beanch I got 2CFM EX flow that what AFR said BUT 9cfm less on the Intake. I looking in to World heads He had one right there in the shop new and showed me and showed me the flow ### That he had done... I well went with the AFR But with a port Job I can see the worlds doing very good. and may be less still than the AFR's. Would still have more wieght that is why I went the AL way. __________________ Engine: steel mounts, Under drive pulleys, K&N, GT-40 Intake ported Lower, No power steering, No A/C, Mac cold intake, 65MM TB, 255 Fuel pump, 24's, AFR 165 58cc, Rocker Arms 1.7with the stock Cam, 1 5/8 short headers, offRoad X-pipe Drive Train: 3.55, T-5 with a Pro 5.0 shifter 12.656@107.71MPH See It at www.T-racing.com/mustang.htm Last edited by Stang Runner; 01-28-2002 at 03:45 PM..

01-28-2002, 04:06 PM	#10
bosco Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: austin TX Posts: 115	man, you guys are makeing me wish i hadnt used these heads (windsor jr's). Would it be worth gettign new ones, or can these be worked and turn out ok __________________ '87 coupe, 308, world product windsor jr. heads, comp cams 220@.050/.512 @110 deg., roller cam,crane full roller rockers, 4bbl 600cfm holly carb,1 inch spacer, wiend aluminum intake, pullies, msd distributer/ignition, 1 5/8 bbk shorties, off road h-pipe 2 chamber flows, 3.73 posi rear end, P.S.T control arms, steeda tri-ax shifter, t-5, auto meter guages, and more to come (hopefully )

01-28-2002, 04:28 PM	#11
Stang Runner Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Walker, MI, USA Posts: 1,202	Get a good port Jop On them will Make them very good Sice you have them I would them ported you could get like a $300-500 Job on them and be about the same cost as some AL heads. They can make very good Power. they Just need a hand to work them nicely __________________ Engine: steel mounts, Under drive pulleys, K&N, GT-40 Intake ported Lower, No power steering, No A/C, Mac cold intake, 65MM TB, 255 Fuel pump, 24's, AFR 165 58cc, Rocker Arms 1.7with the stock Cam, 1 5/8 short headers, offRoad X-pipe Drive Train: 3.55, T-5 with a Pro 5.0 shifter 12.656@107.71MPH See It at www.T-racing.com/mustang.htm

01-26-2002, 11:49 AM	#1
5ohCOUPE Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ORANGE PARK FL. USA Posts: 208	Windsor Jr's. ????? No respect ????? Ive seen a lot of people saying that windsor jr's or seniors are not that good of a head. Why is that?????? I have had great luck with my Jr's. Just look at my SIG. I think i am running a great 1/4 mile time with these heads. Am i the only one that has had luck with these heads. By the way they are bolted on right out of the box, no porting. Just wondering why these heads have no respect. __________________ 91 LX COUPE, 3.73 gears, 2 1/2 inch H-Pipe, 1 5/8 MAC long tube headers, 73 MM C&L MAF, 70 MM MAC TB, LUNATI cam,1.7 TFS Rockers, TFS Track Heat heads, TFS Track Heat intake, T5 with PRO 5.0 shifter, Griffin aluminum radiator, Fluid Damper, SSM traction bars, 190 GPH in tank fuel pump. And more to come.

01-26-2002, 12:12 PM	#2
bosco Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: austin TX Posts: 115	i have them, and i like them. Awsome performance and a great price, i payed a litle over 800 dollars for a set from summit, and id probably buy them again. I havent done any work to them yet either, but i might soon, see if i can get any more out of them __________________ '87 coupe, 308, world product windsor jr. heads, comp cams 220@.050/.512 @110 deg., roller cam,crane full roller rockers, 4bbl 600cfm holly carb,1 inch spacer, wiend aluminum intake, pullies, msd distributer/ignition, 1 5/8 bbk shorties, off road h-pipe 2 chamber flows, 3.73 posi rear end, P.S.T control arms, steeda tri-ax shifter, t-5, auto meter guages, and more to come (hopefully )

01-26-2002, 05:00 PM	#3
91GTturbo Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Valdese, NC Posts: 361	If you go back and look at several of my last posts, I highly recommend them. I putting a set of jrs on my car now. Where did you hear someone saying something bad about them, I've never heard anyone say anything bad about them. Sure there are better heads out there, but for most people these would do just fine. __________________ 91 single turbo vert

01-26-2002, 06:05 PM	#4
5ohCOUPE Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ORANGE PARK FL. USA Posts: 208	I just have seen a lot of people recommend TFS or AFR over the Windsor Jr because the Windsor Jr's dont flow very good. But I guess some people dont realize that flow isnt everything. My friend had the Windsor Jr's on his car and went to the TFS heads and lost MPH and ET. The TFS or AFR are definately a better head but why spend that much money on them when you can get a cheaper head and run better. I guess its all in the combo of you engine that matters. I hope this post doesnt cause any flames, I was just wondering why most people would rather have the AFR or TFS. I still say its all in the combo. __________________ 91 LX COUPE, 3.73 gears, 2 1/2 inch H-Pipe, 1 5/8 MAC long tube headers, 73 MM C&L MAF, 70 MM MAC TB, LUNATI cam,1.7 TFS Rockers, TFS Track Heat heads, TFS Track Heat intake, T5 with PRO 5.0 shifter, Griffin aluminum radiator, Fluid Damper, SSM traction bars, 190 GPH in tank fuel pump. And more to come.

01-26-2002, 09:59 PM	#6
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	Well #1 Windsor Jr's and Sr's do not have good peak flow when compared to the AFR's or TFS's. #2 Windsor Jr's and Sr's have crappy flow curves, being very linear in flow rate as lift increases, much like stock heads. #3 Windsor Jr's and Sr's have very large runners, which as a general rule makes for shitty port velocity and reduced low end performance. #4 Windsor Jr's and Sr's are iron. Aluminum heads make it easier to run advanced timing, lighten the engine, and use forced induction. The Windsor castings heads are built with flow and dimensions much more like the old 1960's technology. So, in my opinion spending $800 on the old iron heads, $1000 or $950 even for the TFS is a pretty good deal.

01-28-2002, 08:36 PM	#13
5ohCOUPE Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ORANGE PARK FL. USA Posts: 208	I still would have gotten the Windsor Jr's if i had to do this all over again but i would have done one thing different. I would have gotten the Windsor Jr Aluminum heads. Im still kicking myself for not getting the aluminum Jr's. I like my Jr's and will never get another head because they work for me. Its all in the combo you have. __________________ 91 LX COUPE, 3.73 gears, 2 1/2 inch H-Pipe, 1 5/8 MAC long tube headers, 73 MM C&L MAF, 70 MM MAC TB, LUNATI cam,1.7 TFS Rockers, TFS Track Heat heads, TFS Track Heat intake, T5 with PRO 5.0 shifter, Griffin aluminum radiator, Fluid Damper, SSM traction bars, 190 GPH in tank fuel pump. And more to come.

01-28-2002, 10:02 PM	#14
vetteeatr Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Olney, Illinois, USA Posts: 212	Hey what kind of power band do these heads by the way The seniors i mean liek 2000 to 6000? I was ognna get a holley systemax intake to go with them what do yu guys think?

01-29-2002, 07:58 PM	#15
DirtKing Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: brooklyn center,mn,USA Posts: 169	I don't remember the stock senior power band...after I had mine ported that all went out the window anyway. I'd speculate their about 2400-6800 stock..big intake ports. I'm running afr 205's now, but I've got nothing bad to say about dart sr's or juniors. If you're not blown I'd stay with iron for the extra power, unless weight really pisses you off. __________________ 88LX notch, Speedpro EFI 358windsor 11.2 to 1 compression, 5 lug baer claws all around..g force t5 and 3.55 gears. rwhp soon to come. Oh yeah...92 octane NO detonation.

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