WTF- Stranded in Germany
 

All,
This is ridiculous but here it goes because I need help.

I've been having a problem with hot starting so I checked the timing and it was fine. I did notice however that my sparkplug wires were all cracking from the header heat b/c the wires had straight boots.

Getting a spark plug wire is ungodly expensive here (don't know why) so I ordered a new set and coil from Napa online.

Got the wires and coil yesterday, a week later. I pulled the wires off one at a time, putting a small amount of WD40 onto each plug end to ease getting a good seat. Then I put on the new coil.

Damn thing won't start now. It just cranks and cranks really fast, but won't start. I looked at the Chiltons to make absolutely sure I hadn't messed up the order of the wires. I thought, maybe I got a bad coil. I put the old coil back on. Still won't start.

I pulled off a few random plug wires and checked, I'm not getting any spark. I pulled the cap and looked at the points and rotor, everythings fine. I pulled the wire from the distributor to the coil and when trying to start no fire is going from coil to distributor. I used a continuity light and found that I am getting no power to the coil, at all. WTF!

At that point it's freezing outside and almost midnite and I had been playing with it since 5pm.

ANY guidance would be appreciated. Can I just run a short wire from the hot side of the solonoid to the hot side of the coil to see if it'll work then??

I've been working on cars for 5 years and never had such a stupid simple problem..... ERRRR.

I'm serious. Really. I need your knowledge.:(

Follow the wiring harness back from the coil and make sure you dont have any messed up wires. take the 10 pin connectors apart and clean them.

Weird problem, I hope you figure it out.

solenoid...
 

Ensure the connections are free from corrosion on the solenoid.

Dark 5.0, I didn't mess with any of the other wires other than coil and spark plugs, everything appears to be in order. If no power is going to the coil, would the 10 pin even be an issue (if you mean the one at the distributor)? If you mean the 10 pin that was a recall, the previous owner had the short extension put on so the pulling a shortness is not an problem.

Hozer, the connections at the solonoid are spotless. The solonoid has good passage of power, it's just not getting to the damn coil.

I'm trying not to get too pissed but it's freezing out here and the garage is barely big enough for a motorcycle and a lawnmower so I'm kinda screwed. I told my wife I needed a new paxton....:)

Any other ideas greatly appreciated. Neither of the two wires that go into the coil are passing power with the ignition in the on position.

And I thought changing a diesel engine head in a Jetta was hard.....

I had this same thing happen about two years ago. That was when my 86 was still EFI. The distributor went bad. Not the TFI module, but the pickups inside it. They looked fine, but when tested weren't doing their job. I tested the coil, the TFI module everything. Coil wasn't giving any spark at all. I went so far as try another computer. Finally swapped the distributor and wham.. fired right up..

Hope that helps.

Wow
 

In that light, maybe I've been focusing on the coil power too much. I thought that if the coil isn't getting power then it has to be something before the coil in the power sequence. I do have a friend with a 5.0 over here, maybe he could drive down and we'll swap parts to troubleshoot, if he'll let me......

What I don't understand is that it ran fine prior to me changing the wires!

Thanks and keep the ideas rollin'....

I would really have to say TFI module. Might have been the hard start problem you originally had. These things will go down in Fords history book as being the biggest problem Ford ever had. Dont even need to pull it off of the car. Take a small flat head screwdriver and pry open the cover. You will see a small printed circuit board in there covered in a gooey type substance. Look for burn traces on the circuit board. In sign of a trace on the board that is burnt its time for a new one. The TFI is first in the system. It gets power from the ECU and sends the signal to the ECU and comes back out. The ECU only modifies or delays the signal to adjust timing. I sat at the stoplights one time cranking forever nver got it fired but did witness a saturn that went around me turned into traffic and got nailed by an oncoming truck. OOPS. Hope this helps. Good luck.


Brad

what he said.

TFI you mean the plate at the bottom of the distributor, right? I really appreciate your help, all of you. I got home from work too late to mess with it b/c it gets dark so early, but it's first on the list tomorrow. Heck, whoever gives the correct diagnosis I'll mail you a 6 pack of the best German beer!:D

Rob

Re: Wow
 

That's the same thing I did, thought it was the coil.. changed it, my ignition box (msd 6al), computer, and I even did the tfi module on the distributor, and that didn't work. I put a known working distributor in, and it worked perfectly. It was funny, when it died, I was coaching my football team, drove to practice, and it drove normally, no hiccups, hard starting, nothing. Then it would not start after that... so I can understand the frustration perfectly.

Since the car is carbed, and i'm running an MSD distributor, things are different. If it dies, I'm gonna stick my spare in... (On long trips I keep the spare and a spare 6AL with me).

Its cold up here in the states so I could really go for a German lager or ale beer. The TFI module is located on the distributor. Directly mounted on the side. Two 5.5MM screws attach it to the housing. You cant miss it. Its grey (aftermarket units can be black). Try to order a Ford unit because aftermarket units have HIGH failure rates. If you do in the end replace the TFI module remember to apply a thin coat of dielectric grease on the back that faces towards the distributor housing(Steel metal plate). Good luck with this.

Brad

The TFI and Hall Effect sensor (distributor piuckup coil - inside the distributor) are known to fail in the mode you describe. If you replace the TFI and it still does it, replace the pickuip coil. You have to remove the distributor and remove the drive gear to get the distributor rotor out to replace it.

Hey Hozer - we have the exact same year, color, etc car.

tmoss pics...
 

Tmoss,
You got any pics?

Here is one - got Ponys on mine (came on the car when I got it)......(you'll like the girls too - see page 2 for one more pic).........

One more..............

very nice...
 

The pictures are great. Oh yeah, the car is nice too.

Why does my car hate me?
 

Alright, I finally got the distro bolt loosened so that I could turn the distributor to get to the TFI. (Damn thing was tight as hell). Now I realized that the only 5.5mm socket that I have isn't skinney enough to fit into the damn hole to get to the bolt. Any ideas now?

I've been looking around on the net and the more I read I think this TFI is the culprit.

Could I get my buddies distributor out of his car (89 5.0), plug it into mine and if it starts that would mean it's the problem, right?

TMOSS, is that Lake of the Ozarks? I loved that place when I was at Ft Leonard Wood... Party cove baby!

Re: Why does my car hate me?
 

AutoZone and other places sell the special socket tool just for the TFI for a few bucks - I bought one and keep it in the spare TFI box I carry in the car. Yes you could trade distributors, but I'd just get the tool since you may need it later anyway.

Good eye - yes that is Lake of the Ozarks, and we were headed to party cove just after those shots were taken.

socket...
 

I just milled down the outside of the socket with a dremel and now I keep it in a drawer in my rollaway of "special" mustang tools.
Like the allen wrench for the adjustable FPR and my IAC bypass, etc, etc...
Oh yeah, the white cream on the back of the TFI is NOT dielectric grease. It is a heat sink. BIG difference.
Good luck. I've had to change one on the side of the road too.

Got lucky, a little
 

Alright, after about 30 phone calls I got hooked up with a German guy who barely speaks english who collects Mustangs and has a few extra parts from junked cars. He sold me a complete distributor for E50, or about $65. Damn shame but had no choice....

Wish I could just run down to autozone to buy the socket but that's not an option here. I could try the dremel idea, which is what I'll do if this doesn't work out, to swap the TFI's.

I'll probably mess with it tomorrow since it's dark already. I'll send an update tomorrow!

Thanks for all your help so far, god I hope that this works.....

Rob

OOPPS - missed you were in Germany!

Still the deadstang....
 

Yeah TMoss, Germany, that's why this is such a problem. The people here barely know what a Mustang is much less help fix one....

Replaced the entire distributor, got everything lined up (10 degrees with the rotor on the #1 cylinder on the cap) and the damn thing still won't start!:confused: I'm about to eat a bullet over this one:mad: Even if it's not timed exactly it should still start right?

Again, I pulled a plug wire and put a paperclip in it and no spark while the wife was cranking it. I SHOULD get a spark right?

I don't know what else to do other than light it on fire and collect the insurance money.

Obviously I'm missing something here.

Let me explain what it takes to get spark so you know all the pieces involved in case you don't know. The TFI has two 12v connections to it. One is a "run" 12v and is on when the key is in the "run" position. The other 12v is on when in "crank" - this is to let the EEC know to not vary timing until the car is started and the power comes from the "run" 12v power. When you turn the key to "crank", the Hall Effect sensor (pickup coil) inside the distributor sends a PIP signal through the TFI to the EEC and the EEC then sends the "fire" signal back through the TFI to the coil. When in "run", the EEC will retard or advance the fire signal according to engine monitoring sensors input.

Make sure both the 12v pins on the TFI are getting 12v power. If not, then a connection is bad or the ingnition switch is bad. We'll assume the TFI is good - even though new ones have beeb found to be bad. The pickup coil may be bad or the coil could also be bad.

I am attaching a pinout of the TFI. Pull the plug to the TFI and be sure your 12v power comes to the right pin for the two ignition positions. The "TFI power" is the "run" position. After that, it's replacement time for the pickup coil and/or coil.

IT'S ALIVE!
 

Tmoss and others,

Thank you for all of your knowledge and assistance. I was about to become a SERIOUS alcoholic over this.

One of the previous owners had an alarm installed in the car, and one of the reostats that cut power to the coil (if alarm activated) had failed. The reostat wouldn't let any power thru. Of course it took two hours with a wire digram, tracing and prodding every 6 inches trying to find the cutoff. I honestly didn't even know that this reostat wasn't stock b/c it was buried in the wiring harness so well.

Anyway, it starts. We put whiteout on 10 BTC but timed it so that the whiteout showed in the circle of the timing guage thing on the balancer. It idled good but drove bad across the parking lot (it only drove 30 feet or so). Should've timed it to the blade end huh?

Anyway, if you could tell me whether to time off of the blade or circle that would be wonderful.

Thanks again everyone!!!

Congrads on getting it going. Time it to the edge of the timing pointer. Also make sure you pull SPOUT out before you time it and also make sure its up to operating temp before you adjust timing.

Brad

Alright guys,

I got it all timed up and ready to return to roaring down the open roads here. Nothing like going 130 MPH to work every day, and passing police cars (the first few times I did that I nearly panic stopped).

I did find a bunch of additional wires running off that reostat that went bad, running to god only knows, but that's not urgent.

Thanks again for all your help!!! Guten Abend!