WTF- Stranded in Germany

stock89 · 12-18-2003, 01:22 AM

All,
This is ridiculous but here it goes because I need help.

I've been having a problem with hot starting so I checked the timing and it was fine. I did notice however that my sparkplug wires were all cracking from the header heat b/c the wires had straight boots.

Getting a spark plug wire is ungodly expensive here (don't know why) so I ordered a new set and coil from Napa online.

Got the wires and coil yesterday, a week later. I pulled the wires off one at a time, putting a small amount of WD40 onto each plug end to ease getting a good seat. Then I put on the new coil.

Damn thing won't start now. It just cranks and cranks really fast, but won't start. I looked at the Chiltons to make absolutely sure I hadn't messed up the order of the wires. I thought, maybe I got a bad coil. I put the old coil back on. Still won't start.

I pulled off a few random plug wires and checked, I'm not getting any spark. I pulled the cap and looked at the points and rotor, everythings fine. I pulled the wire from the distributor to the coil and when trying to start no fire is going from coil to distributor. I used a continuity light and found that I am getting no power to the coil, at all. WTF!

At that point it's freezing outside and almost midnite and I had been playing with it since 5pm.

ANY guidance would be appreciated. Can I just run a short wire from the hot side of the solonoid to the hot side of the coil to see if it'll work then??

I've been working on cars for 5 years and never had such a stupid simple problem..... ERRRR.

stock89 · 12-18-2003, 01:01 PM

I'm serious. Really. I need your knowledge.

Dark_5.0 · 12-18-2003, 01:27 PM

Follow the wiring harness back from the coil and make sure you dont have any messed up wires. take the 10 pin connectors apart and clean them.

Weird problem, I hope you figure it out.

Hozer 88GTConv · 12-18-2003, 01:39 PM

Ensure the connections are free from corrosion on the solenoid.

stock89 · 12-18-2003, 02:39 PM

Dark 5.0, I didn't mess with any of the other wires other than coil and spark plugs, everything appears to be in order. If no power is going to the coil, would the 10 pin even be an issue (if you mean the one at the distributor)? If you mean the 10 pin that was a recall, the previous owner had the short extension put on so the pulling a shortness is not an problem.

Hozer, the connections at the solonoid are spotless. The solonoid has good passage of power, it's just not getting to the damn coil.

I'm trying not to get too pissed but it's freezing out here and the garage is barely big enough for a motorcycle and a lawnmower so I'm kinda screwed. I told my wife I needed a new paxton....

Any other ideas greatly appreciated. Neither of the two wires that go into the coil are passing power with the ignition in the on position.

And I thought changing a diesel engine head in a Jetta was hard.....

86GT · 12-18-2003, 04:13 PM

I had this same thing happen about two years ago. That was when my 86 was still EFI. The distributor went bad. Not the TFI module, but the pickups inside it. They looked fine, but when tested weren't doing their job. I tested the coil, the TFI module everything. Coil wasn't giving any spark at all. I went so far as try another computer. Finally swapped the distributor and wham.. fired right up..

Hope that helps.

stock89 · 12-19-2003, 12:54 AM

In that light, maybe I've been focusing on the coil power too much. I thought that if the coil isn't getting power then it has to be something before the coil in the power sequence. I do have a friend with a 5.0 over here, maybe he could drive down and we'll swap parts to troubleshoot, if he'll let me......

What I don't understand is that it ran fine prior to me changing the wires!

Thanks and keep the ideas rollin'....

mustangman4 · 12-19-2003, 03:35 AM

I would really have to say TFI module. Might have been the hard start problem you originally had. These things will go down in Fords history book as being the biggest problem Ford ever had. Dont even need to pull it off of the car. Take a small flat head screwdriver and pry open the cover. You will see a small printed circuit board in there covered in a gooey type substance. Look for burn traces on the circuit board. In sign of a trace on the board that is burnt its time for a new one. The TFI is first in the system. It gets power from the ECU and sends the signal to the ECU and comes back out. The ECU only modifies or delays the signal to adjust timing. I sat at the stoplights one time cranking forever nver got it fired but did witness a saturn that went around me turned into traffic and got nailed by an oncoming truck. OOPS. Hope this helps. Good luck.

Brad

Ieatcamaros · 12-19-2003, 08:38 AM

Quote:

I would really have to say TFI module. Might have been the hard start problem you originally had. These things will go down in Fords history book as being the biggest problem Ford ever had. Dont even need to pull it off of the car. Take a small flat head screwdriver and pry open the cover. You will see a small printed circuit board in there covered in a gooey type substance. Look for burn traces on the circuit board. In sign of a trace on the board that is burnt its time for a new one. The TFI is first in the system. It gets power from the ECU and sends the signal to the ECU and comes back out. The ECU only modifies or delays the signal to adjust timing.

what he said.

stock89 · 12-19-2003, 12:49 PM

TFI you mean the plate at the bottom of the distributor, right? I really appreciate your help, all of you. I got home from work too late to mess with it b/c it gets dark so early, but it's first on the list tomorrow. Heck, whoever gives the correct diagnosis I'll mail you a 6 pack of the best German beer!

Rob

86GT · 12-19-2003, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stock89
In that light, maybe I've been focusing on the coil power too much. I thought that if the coil isn't getting power then it has to be something before the coil in the power sequence. I do have a friend with a 5.0 over here, maybe he could drive down and we'll swap parts to troubleshoot, if he'll let me......

What I don't understand is that it ran fine prior to me changing the wires!

Thanks and keep the ideas rollin'....

That's the same thing I did, thought it was the coil.. changed it, my ignition box (msd 6al), computer, and I even did the tfi module on the distributor, and that didn't work. I put a known working distributor in, and it worked perfectly. It was funny, when it died, I was coaching my football team, drove to practice, and it drove normally, no hiccups, hard starting, nothing. Then it would not start after that... so I can understand the frustration perfectly.

Since the car is carbed, and i'm running an MSD distributor, things are different. If it dies, I'm gonna stick my spare in... (On long trips I keep the spare and a spare 6AL with me).

mustangman4 · 12-19-2003, 01:16 PM

Its cold up here in the states so I could really go for a German lager or ale beer. The TFI module is located on the distributor. Directly mounted on the side. Two 5.5MM screws attach it to the housing. You cant miss it. Its grey (aftermarket units can be black). Try to order a Ford unit because aftermarket units have HIGH failure rates. If you do in the end replace the TFI module remember to apply a thin coat of dielectric grease on the back that faces towards the distributor housing(Steel metal plate). Good luck with this.

Brad

tmoss · 12-19-2003, 01:20 PM

The TFI and Hall Effect sensor (distributor piuckup coil - inside the distributor) are known to fail in the mode you describe. If you replace the TFI and it still does it, replace the pickuip coil. You have to remove the distributor and remove the drive gear to get the distributor rotor out to replace it.

Hey Hozer - we have the exact same year, color, etc car.

Hozer 88GTConv · 12-19-2003, 03:34 PM

Tmoss,
You got any pics?

tmoss · 12-19-2003, 03:44 PM

Here is one - got Ponys on mine (came on the car when I got it)......(you'll like the girls too - see page 2 for one more pic).........

tmoss · 12-19-2003, 03:47 PM

One more..............

Hozer 88GTConv · 12-19-2003, 08:03 PM

The pictures are great. Oh yeah, the car is nice too.

stock89 · 12-20-2003, 07:12 AM

Alright, I finally got the distro bolt loosened so that I could turn the distributor to get to the TFI. (Damn thing was tight as hell). Now I realized that the only 5.5mm socket that I have isn't skinney enough to fit into the damn hole to get to the bolt. Any ideas now?

I've been looking around on the net and the more I read I think this TFI is the culprit.

Could I get my buddies distributor out of his car (89 5.0), plug it into mine and if it starts that would mean it's the problem, right?

TMOSS, is that Lake of the Ozarks? I loved that place when I was at Ft Leonard Wood... Party cove baby!

tmoss · 12-20-2003, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stock89
Alright, I finally got the distro bolt loosened so that I could turn the distributor to get to the TFI. (Damn thing was tight as hell). Now I realized that the only 5.5mm socket that I have isn't skinney enough to fit into the damn hole to get to the bolt. Any ideas now?

I've been looking around on the net and the more I read I think this TFI is the culprit.

Could I get my buddies distributor out of his car (89 5.0), plug it into mine and if it starts that would mean it's the problem, right?

TMOSS, is that Lake of the Ozarks? I loved that place when I was at Ft Leonard Wood... Party cove baby!

AutoZone and other places sell the special socket tool just for the TFI for a few bucks - I bought one and keep it in the spare TFI box I carry in the car. Yes you could trade distributors, but I'd just get the tool since you may need it later anyway.

Good eye - yes that is Lake of the Ozarks, and we were headed to party cove just after those shots were taken.

Hozer 88GTConv · 12-20-2003, 09:57 AM

I just milled down the outside of the socket with a dremel and now I keep it in a drawer in my rollaway of "special" mustang tools.
Like the allen wrench for the adjustable FPR and my IAC bypass, etc, etc...
Oh yeah, the white cream on the back of the TFI is NOT dielectric grease. It is a heat sink. BIG difference.
Good luck. I've had to change one on the side of the road too.

12-18-2003, 01:22 AM	#1
stock89 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mannheim, Germany Posts: 124	WTF- Stranded in Germany All, This is ridiculous but here it goes because I need help. I've been having a problem with hot starting so I checked the timing and it was fine. I did notice however that my sparkplug wires were all cracking from the header heat b/c the wires had straight boots. Getting a spark plug wire is ungodly expensive here (don't know why) so I ordered a new set and coil from Napa online. Got the wires and coil yesterday, a week later. I pulled the wires off one at a time, putting a small amount of WD40 onto each plug end to ease getting a good seat. Then I put on the new coil. Damn thing won't start now. It just cranks and cranks really fast, but won't start. I looked at the Chiltons to make absolutely sure I hadn't messed up the order of the wires. I thought, maybe I got a bad coil. I put the old coil back on. Still won't start. I pulled off a few random plug wires and checked, I'm not getting any spark. I pulled the cap and looked at the points and rotor, everythings fine. I pulled the wire from the distributor to the coil and when trying to start no fire is going from coil to distributor. I used a continuity light and found that I am getting no power to the coil, at all. WTF! At that point it's freezing outside and almost midnite and I had been playing with it since 5pm. ANY guidance would be appreciated. Can I just run a short wire from the hot side of the solonoid to the hot side of the coil to see if it'll work then?? I've been working on cars for 5 years and never had such a stupid simple problem..... ERRRR.

12-18-2003, 01:01 PM	#2
stock89 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mannheim, Germany Posts: 124	I'm serious. Really. I need your knowledge. __________________ 89 LX 5.0 Notchback, FINALLY NO LONGER STOCK!

12-18-2003, 01:27 PM	#3
Dark_5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Staging lane Posts: 4,337	Follow the wiring harness back from the coil and make sure you dont have any messed up wires. take the 10 pin connectors apart and clean them. Weird problem, I hope you figure it out. __________________ 92' LX-Big brakes, Lots and lots of suspension, GT40X heads, Ported cobra intake, stock cam, Vortech SC trim. 00' Lightning-Stock 88'CRX-13 second ego killer

12-18-2003, 01:39 PM	#4
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	solenoid... Ensure the connections are free from corrosion on the solenoid. __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

12-18-2003, 02:39 PM	#5
stock89 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mannheim, Germany Posts: 124	Dark 5.0, I didn't mess with any of the other wires other than coil and spark plugs, everything appears to be in order. If no power is going to the coil, would the 10 pin even be an issue (if you mean the one at the distributor)? If you mean the 10 pin that was a recall, the previous owner had the short extension put on so the pulling a shortness is not an problem. Hozer, the connections at the solonoid are spotless. The solonoid has good passage of power, it's just not getting to the damn coil. I'm trying not to get too pissed but it's freezing out here and the garage is barely big enough for a motorcycle and a lawnmower so I'm kinda screwed. I told my wife I needed a new paxton.... Any other ideas greatly appreciated. Neither of the two wires that go into the coil are passing power with the ignition in the on position. And I thought changing a diesel engine head in a Jetta was hard..... __________________ 89 LX 5.0 Notchback, FINALLY NO LONGER STOCK!

12-18-2003, 04:13 PM	#6
86GT Sniffed too much n20 Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Ont, Canada Posts: 1,018	I had this same thing happen about two years ago. That was when my 86 was still EFI. The distributor went bad. Not the TFI module, but the pickups inside it. They looked fine, but when tested weren't doing their job. I tested the coil, the TFI module everything. Coil wasn't giving any spark at all. I went so far as try another computer. Finally swapped the distributor and wham.. fired right up.. Hope that helps. __________________ 2002 Windsor Weekend Q16 Qualifier

12-19-2003, 12:54 AM	#7
stock89 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mannheim, Germany Posts: 124	Wow In that light, maybe I've been focusing on the coil power too much. I thought that if the coil isn't getting power then it has to be something before the coil in the power sequence. I do have a friend with a 5.0 over here, maybe he could drive down and we'll swap parts to troubleshoot, if he'll let me...... What I don't understand is that it ran fine prior to me changing the wires! Thanks and keep the ideas rollin'.... __________________ 89 LX 5.0 Notchback, FINALLY NO LONGER STOCK!

12-19-2003, 03:35 AM	#8
mustangman4 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Oshkosh WI Posts: 69	I would really have to say TFI module. Might have been the hard start problem you originally had. These things will go down in Fords history book as being the biggest problem Ford ever had. Dont even need to pull it off of the car. Take a small flat head screwdriver and pry open the cover. You will see a small printed circuit board in there covered in a gooey type substance. Look for burn traces on the circuit board. In sign of a trace on the board that is burnt its time for a new one. The TFI is first in the system. It gets power from the ECU and sends the signal to the ECU and comes back out. The ECU only modifies or delays the signal to adjust timing. I sat at the stoplights one time cranking forever nver got it fired but did witness a saturn that went around me turned into traffic and got nailed by an oncoming truck. OOPS. Hope this helps. Good luck. Brad __________________ 93 GT 306 DSS, O-Ringed, AFR 185's, Pro Products Intakes, 55lb low imp inj, 80mm Pro-M meter, 2004 PMS, AFM Power Pipe, Kirban Reg, Vortech S-Trim 14lbs. No times yet. Trying to tune.

12-19-2003, 12:49 PM	#10
stock89 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mannheim, Germany Posts: 124	TFI you mean the plate at the bottom of the distributor, right? I really appreciate your help, all of you. I got home from work too late to mess with it b/c it gets dark so early, but it's first on the list tomorrow. Heck, whoever gives the correct diagnosis I'll mail you a 6 pack of the best German beer! Rob __________________ 89 LX 5.0 Notchback, FINALLY NO LONGER STOCK!

12-19-2003, 01:16 PM	#12
mustangman4 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Oshkosh WI Posts: 69	Its cold up here in the states so I could really go for a German lager or ale beer. The TFI module is located on the distributor. Directly mounted on the side. Two 5.5MM screws attach it to the housing. You cant miss it. Its grey (aftermarket units can be black). Try to order a Ford unit because aftermarket units have HIGH failure rates. If you do in the end replace the TFI module remember to apply a thin coat of dielectric grease on the back that faces towards the distributor housing(Steel metal plate). Good luck with this. Brad __________________ 93 GT 306 DSS, O-Ringed, AFR 185's, Pro Products Intakes, 55lb low imp inj, 80mm Pro-M meter, 2004 PMS, AFM Power Pipe, Kirban Reg, Vortech S-Trim 14lbs. No times yet. Trying to tune.

12-19-2003, 01:20 PM	#13
tmoss Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 634	The TFI and Hall Effect sensor (distributor piuckup coil - inside the distributor) are known to fail in the mode you describe. If you replace the TFI and it still does it, replace the pickuip coil. You have to remove the distributor and remove the drive gear to get the distributor rotor out to replace it. Hey Hozer - we have the exact same year, color, etc car. __________________ Tom (Torque) Moss 88Gt 5spd Vert, FLowmaster Catbacks, stock cam advanced 4° @ 108.5° ICL, NMRA prepped GT40P heads 1.85/1.55 valves and 1.7 rockers, MAC P headers Jet-Hot coated, 97 Exlporer intake (ported lower), TB and injectors. 277RWHP/330RWTQ (SAE). http://www.fastlanecars.com/

12-19-2003, 03:34 PM	#14
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	tmoss pics... Tmoss, You got any pics? __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

12-19-2003, 08:03 PM	#17
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	very nice... The pictures are great. Oh yeah, the car is nice too. __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

12-20-2003, 07:12 AM	#18
stock89 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mannheim, Germany Posts: 124	Why does my car hate me? Alright, I finally got the distro bolt loosened so that I could turn the distributor to get to the TFI. (Damn thing was tight as hell). Now I realized that the only 5.5mm socket that I have isn't skinney enough to fit into the damn hole to get to the bolt. Any ideas now? I've been looking around on the net and the more I read I think this TFI is the culprit. Could I get my buddies distributor out of his car (89 5.0), plug it into mine and if it starts that would mean it's the problem, right? TMOSS, is that Lake of the Ozarks? I loved that place when I was at Ft Leonard Wood... Party cove baby! __________________ 89 LX 5.0 Notchback, FINALLY NO LONGER STOCK!

12-20-2003, 09:57 AM	#20
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	socket... I just milled down the outside of the socket with a dremel and now I keep it in a drawer in my rollaway of "special" mustang tools. Like the allen wrench for the adjustable FPR and my IAC bypass, etc, etc... Oh yeah, the white cream on the back of the TFI is NOT dielectric grease. It is a heat sink. BIG difference. Good luck. I've had to change one on the side of the road too. __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

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