331,opinions and info
 

i was thinken of building a 396...but just cant justify the cost for a mostly street car...im now thinken of a 302 based stroker

im looken at the 331...what are your guys thoughts and opinions o them...and ppl with them how do you like them/it...

what kind of number would i be looken at with a engine like this??

thanx

The 331 is a sweet combo. With what I have there is more power than I can put down on the street. It revs so quick and loves the high RPM's. I am totally pleased with my current combo, I just have some other small things to do on the car now. But to tell the truth my next project is going to be something like a 408 with a novi 2000 or 3000. I highly recommend the 331, it is the hot set up right now.

did you build your own short block or did you just buy the short block? how much did it cost for you to do what ever you did? also do you have any track numbers?

I got the shortblock built at Ford Performance Solutions. I think they did great job and were really nice to work with. I think I paid about $2600.00 for the short block with all forged internals. All together though I have way too much money into it, maybe like 15 or 16 thousand. My friend just got one from them for $2200.00 with a iron crank and no main support. I just got mine running so no track times yet I am currently rebuilding my tourqe boxes they decided to seperate into a couple different pieces. I'm hoping to get 450 hp N/A out of it. -Chris

I got my 331 from DSS. Its a torque monster. It dyno'd at 345 rwhp but 385 ft-lbs. I'm running about .550 lift but it idles smooth. On the other side of the coin, if I didn't already have the intake & headers, I would have gone for the 427 stroker. Not much cost differnce but tons more power.

I've always heard that strokers were not as reliable as say, a 351 Windsor. Anyone with a 331 or 347 stroker with high miles to attest otherwise? I'd rather stroke a 302 than drop in a built 351, seems more cost effective. However, I want a daily driver with power for fun, not a drag demon.


Matthew

I've got ductile rings, Crower rods, J&E pistons (with all rings above the pin) & a steel crank. I can't imagine where this wouldn't last as long as a 351 built from the same parts.

Re: 331,opinions and info
 

You should go for the 351 based stroker, for a few more dollars you'll have a bunch for streetable torque.

i am looken at possibly a 351...but i want a short block and i want to use the hyd. roller cams and i dont know where to get one..i know ford has them

I'm in the process of building up a 331. Here is some cost info:

$1,770 - DSS 331 stroker kit with upgraded 4340 steel crank, 4340 H-beams, Probe Sportsman Race Series pistons (for TFS TW heads), Federal Mogul Ducitle Iron ring set.

$400 - Oiling system includes Canton 7qt. deep sump, DSS pro windage tray, Melling HV pump, ARP oil shaft

$450 - Machining work, includes hot tank, hone, over bore, and balancing to 28 oz.

$350 - ARP Bolts, Fel-pro gaskets (loc-wires for me), ARP studs, pilot bearing, cam bearings, etc.

$1000 - Upgraded engine parts, includes DSS Main support system, Fluidampr harmonic damper (28 oz), engergy suspension motor and tranny mounts, Cloyes true double roller timing chain set, water pump, custom 331 JMS chip re-burn.

It should be a stout little motor, especially with a some boost from a ProCharger D1-SC (above stroker will come in around 9.1:1 comp.) Keep in mind that engine machining and bolts/gaskets/etc will always be in the mix, its the new headers, engine control system, etc, that I didn't want to mess with on the 351 based stroker. Plus, a nice little 331 with 9.1:1 and mild cam should have nice street manners, but will really scream with boost.

n20lx - what compression are you running?

E

$1,700 some odd dollars seems pretty high for a 331 kit...a guy i know quoted me around $1,350 for a 331 kit with all forged parts

as for as i understand the stock computer will work with a 351...and i also plan on possibly a PMS controler or something similar...

will 351 swap long tube headers bolt to my mac H pipe?

The pricing on the kit from DSS works out like this:

$1295 - Basic 331 kit
300 - Upgrade to 4340 Forged Steel crank
100 - Upgrade to TFS TW specific pistons
75 - Upgrade to Federal Mogul Ductile Iron rings

$1,770 - TOTAL

If you're getting a 331 kit with all forged steel internals for $1,350 from a reputable speed shop, then by all means - get it!

The PMS will probably be a good idea. I plan on switching systems when I get the supercharger.

Good luck,
E

My freind is building a 331 shortblock. He is using a new block from sumitt ($299) and a all forged parts stroker kit. He had the block bored .030 and the rotating assembly balanced at a machine shop.

He was telling me that if I wanted to build one, to just buy a short block already assembled, because its cheaper and easier.

something to think about.

by the way, a lot of people want forged cranks and will pay extra for it, but you dont really need it. I think a cast crank can handle around 650 HP. One of the ford crate engines makes that much power using a cast crank, and I have read that forged cranks are overkill for the average street/strip motor.

Two excellent points
 

Mach 1

There is definitely some validity to what your friend said about purchasing an assembled short block being probably easier and cheaper. I'm just big on knowing exactly who is doing my work and like to be very involved in the process. Therefore, I had a local machine shop that I know (Fowler Engines) do the machining and a friend/local engine builder do the assembling.

Good point on the crank too. DSS and others I spoke with suggested that the cast crank would handle 650 HP - probably more than what even a girdled 302 block can handle. However, I'm 'Mr. Overkill' sometimes and decided that with the boost, I better get a forged steel crank. More than anything I wanted peace of mind.

If you don't mind, it would be great if you could keep us posted on your friend's 331 build-up. :)

E

Re: Two excellent points
 

Well, hes building a carbed combo, with AFR 185 heads and a victor jr. intake manifold, with a barry grant carb, and an x-303 cam.


should be a screamer.

Hes been milking it, setting the parts together on his engine stand and admiring it and sending pictures around, saying hows hes going to blow my doors off instead of putting the thing in his car and firing it up.

I thihnk hes gonna get the car painted first. lmao...thats a funny story. He tried to paint the car himself to save money, and he spend $100's on quality primer, paint, and materials, only to sand it off and spray it again a couple times because it looked like crap.

And his entire garage floor is an ugly shade of pink...(was pianting car red) he tried to make a "homemade paint booth" with some sheets and a fan...lol...wasnt happening.

I know he had problems witht he balance. He ordered eithier a 28 or a 50 oz imbalnce flywheel and dampner, but the machine shop couldnt balance it to what he intended (cant remember which one) and they had to go the other way with it. He sent the flywheel and dampner back to sumitt and had to eat like a 20% restocking fee because he had the parts for a long time already.

anyway, if he ever gets it running, Ill let you know more. He's aiming for 10:1 compression, and he wants to install a direct port nitrous system later on.

So in the long run, which motor will last the most miles: 351 or 331 stroker?

probaby a 351. 331 strokers are supposed to be more reliable than 347 strokers, but i would have to assume a factory style 351 would be the longest lasting. but 302 strokers are just gaining more popularity now, so I guess theres not a lot out there with high mileage yet.

302 LX Eric:
My compression works out to 10.25:1. I run 100 octane fuel. I could get away with 93 but I'm running 24 deg. inital timing & lots of fuel taken out with a PMS. Before anybody says I'm nuts with that much timing, the car was professioanlly tuned on a dyno with an air/fuel meter.

All:
The point I was trying to make earlier is trying to say what motor will last depends on the build. The big problem with the earl 347's was the ring location. Most builders have solved that problem. It alos depends on how hard you push it. Many poeple get 150K+ out of a stock 5.0. Mine lasted 56K. My experience was that rpm was a bigger killer than hp.

might be alittle off subject but dose anyone have any opinions on what heads to run on a 351(non stroker) motor...are the afr 185's to small?

Actually the 185's are perfect for 351's, or strokers, or power adder 302's, on a n/a combo, the 165's are good for 306-331's imo, now if you have a power adder 351, the afr 205's would of course be the badboys, but not very streetable.