ATTN: PWRWUD. I need your expertise.
 

PKRWUD: I'm having a major power problem and was hoping you could give me the steps to fix it. I'm going to detail the problems and steps I've taken to try to fix it. Could you please point me in the right direction.

I installed the C&L mass air, 65mm throttle body and zex nitrous kit, and an electic fan. After all this was done I seemed to have lost about 20-30 horses(gut feeling estimate). When i stomp the gas it goes but it doesn't pull as hard as it should until i let off the gas to shift. For a split second between when i lift my foot off the gas and push the clutch in, it has all the power it should. Here is what i did to try to fix this.

1. Adjusted the idle. I followed the directions as given by tech50.com but the lowest i could get the idle was ~1050 rpms. This is with the idle screw backed ALL the way out. This posed a new problem as now first thing in the morning the car has absolutely no power and stalls alot, until you rev it up to about 3-4 grand. Then is runs fine and idles at ~1050.
P.S. The tps sensor is currently at ~.94 volts at idle. I was trying to get it up to .98 but it just doesn't turn that far.

2. Advanced the timing. I was going to set it to about 14 degrees, but the bulb burnt right when i started. I advanced it until i heard bad noises on a high speed run then backed it off a little.

I figure its got to be a problem with the new throttle body being out of adjustment. What should i do to try to fix this. I hope you can help because I want to try out my new nitrous kit but I'm not going to shoot that up until the car runs right without it.

Well I ain't that Chris, but I can guess one piece of advice he's gonna give you. Get a new bulb for your timing light or get a new timing light. The way you set your timing is not a good idea at all IMO, it's sheer guesswork. Another thing about the timing is that with nitrous you need to retard your timing ~2 degrees for each 50hp of spray you are using. If you try to run the nitrous with your timing set the way it is your asking for trouble IMO. Your timing is probably the reason your car is running like it is right now.

Well the light i have is a 150 dollar light but no one carries a bulb for it, including sears even though its a craftsman. I think im' gonna go get a new 35 dollar light cuz the autoplace up the road wants 20 bucks to check and see what the timings at.

Chris you are right and wrong about two things. First you are right about retarding the timing 2 degrees for every 50shot. But you are wrong about timing a motor by ear. If your around alot of competition engines enough you will learn that you can time a car by ear if you know what your listening for. It's especially easy if your car is loud. A loud car is easy to set timing by ear because you can hear what the motor is doing. I set mine by ear and when i put a timing light on it..it was DEAD ON. So you can definately time one by ear. Just make sure you know what your doing.

Sounds to me like you have a vacuum leak, and your fuel pressure isn't high enough. What do the plugs look like? What's your pressure at? Do you have a propane torch? If you do, turn it on high, but don't light it, and point it around the TB gasket, and everywhere else there might be a leak, while the engine is idling, and listen for the idle to go up.

Take care,
~Chris

Ok, I'll do the propane torch thing tomorow and listen for the idle. I don'thave an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and I'm not to sure how to check fuel pressure, so if youo could tell me how to do that, I'll check that tomorow also. I'll also pull some plugs tomorow and let you know what they look like. Thanks man.

for the fuel pressure, you'll need to buy or borrow a fuel pressure gauge. You can get ones for simply checking FP in the shop at the parts store, or you can get permanent ones from the speed shop, or Summit, or maybe even the local parts store.As far as the vacuum leak, I agree with PKRWUD (who doesn't??) that would have been my guess as well.

Get a fuel pressure tester, and hook it up to the schrader valve on the fuel rail near the distributor. Start it up, and read the pressure. Then disconnect and plug the vacuum hose going to the regulator, and read the pressure. Then, shut the engine off, and watch the gauge. How long does it take before the pressure starts to bleed down.

Post your results.

Take care,
~Chris

I did the leak test and the idle didn't change when the torch was around the engine. I sprayed everything i could think of. All around the throttle body and nitrous nozzle and baciscally everywhere that air could get in. Originally before the nitrous, there was a vacuum hose a little over 8inches long running from the fuel pressure regulator to the intake, in order to install the nitrous, that vaccuum line had to be rerouted through the control module and is now in total about 5-6 feet long. Could this addes length lead to a lean condition?

It shouldn't, but why in the world does it have to be that long? You really need to do the pressure tests. I'm curious to see if the module as an effect. Also, why haven't you put an adj. reg in? Especially w/ nitrous.

Also, what happens to the idle if you unplug the IAC?

Borrow a timing light and set the timing to 10 degrees with the SPOUT connector removed.

Take care,
~Chris

Also, have you checked for codes?

I has to be that long because the only placeei could mount the control module is under my air filter so the line had to run from the regulator to the module back to the intake. I just bought a vaccuum gauge, fuel pressure gauge and code puller. I'm gonna go get all that now. When i test for vaccuum though, am i taking the test off the tree mounted on the fire wall or off of the intake manifold. I'll take both and post em up here if there different. I don't have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator cuz the nitrous kit said i didn't need one. maybe when i can stop buying diagnostic tools i'll be able to afford a regulator. O yeah, the new bulb for the timing light is in the mail i should have it in a few days. Until then i'm not about to pay the mechanic 20 bucks to tell me what its at.

Okay here are the test results:

Vaccuum test:
At idle: 18 lbs
Snapped to WOT: Hits zero, goes to 25 lbs, quickly drops to 20 lbs then takes about 10 seconds to go back to 18 pounds.

Fuel pressure test:
Key on but not running: 32 lbs
At idle: 34 lbs
At wot: just over 34 lbs

Codes:
KOEO: Code 15: Failure in Electronic Control Assembly(ECA) - problems with keep alive memory.

KOER: Code 24: Air Chart Temp. (ACT) sensor or Vane Air Temp. (Vat) sensor - signal voltage is out of specs. or not at normal levels.

I also did a cylinder balance test and there were no cylinder/injector problems.

sorry, that code 24 should read air CHARGE temp., not air chart temp.

Vacuum is surprisingly good, but acts like there is a slight restriction in the exhaust.

Fuel Pressure needs to be done again. I need to know what it is at idle, then disconnect the vacuum hose from the regulator, and plug it, and tell me what the pressure goes to. Then unplug the vacuum hose, and tell me what the idle does (does it go up or down?). Then reconnect the vacuum hose to the regulator, and let the pressure go back to where it was at idle before, then shut off the engine, BUT watch the gauge for 3 minutes! Does it bleed down at all during this time, and if so, how much in how much time? Remove the gauge.

Restart the engine. If your idle is high at this point, unplug the IAC, and tell me what happens. Shut off the engine. Reconnect the IAC.

Disconnect the neg. battery cable, and then turn on the headlight switch for 10 minutes. Then, turn the switch off, and reconnect the battery cable. Re-run KOEO codes.

STOP.

Post your results.

Take care,
~Chris

more results
 

Okay. here are the results.

At idle: 33 lbs

Disconnected and plugged: 42lbs

Unplugged completely: idle rose 50-100 rpms

Reconnected and shut off engine: After about a minute vaccuum climbed to 38lbs and held steady there for another 5, then i stopped looking.

When i restarted the idle was normal, i unplugged the IAC and the idle didn't change at all.

I then disconnected the battery and let sit with the light switch on for 10 mins. I reran the KOEO codes and got the code 15 again. Failure in ECA.

It doesn't look good. You have one more test to do to confirm your suspicions. You need to disconnect the 60 pin connector from the ECM. Then, take a DMM set to DC volts, on the 20 scale, connect the pos. test lead to the pin at wire 1 in the connector. Pin 1 will be one of the corner pins, with a Black/Orange wire going to it. Then connect the neg. test lead to pin 40 or pin 60 (pin 60 is the exact opposite corner from where the 1 pin is, and pin 40 is below it (see attached pic). Turn the key on (KOEO), and read the DMM. If the reading is less than 10.5vdc, there is an open in one of those wires, and you will need to trace and find it. If the reading is more than 10.5vdc, the ECM is bad, and must be replaced.

Take care,
~Chris

FWIW, if it makes you feel any better, your other test results were EXCELLENT!!! Your fuel pump works great, your injectors aren't leaking, your valves are adjusted well, your rings are sealing, and you don't have any vacuum leaks.

:)

Take care,
~Chris

What do you mean there is an open in one of the wires?

How much lee-way do we get with this 10.5 volts? The reading came back at exatly 11 volts. I guess this means I'll be replacing the ECM. YEY junkyard run on monday! My question is could this have been an old problem and just arose because of the new mods, or did I screw something up with the new mods that caused this. Also, will replacing the ECM get my power back, cuz the car is still completely streetable right now, just lacks full throttle power. I would like the end this post with a large ****!