Quote:
Originally posted by Mustangbelle306
Are 350s obsolete? No.
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That would depend on if you're asking Farmer Joe or not. LOL.
The 2v modular motors are NOT revving machines. They are just as restricted in rpm as the 5.0. Ford put a bunch of junk parts into them.
I love hearing the modular guys talk. Mostly because they don't know much about their engine, engines in general, and especially about pushrod engines.
The 5.0 or 4.9 if you want to get technical, has been around for 35 years now. It's model production run was 68-01. That's a very long time to be in production for ANY engine, and it attests to the incredible adaptability of the engine. Could the engine still hack it in today's performance car world? Maybe. The engine wasn't killed because of lack of potential, lack of stock performance, or high cost. It was killed because of emissions problems. Ford eventually had to address that concern with the Explorer anyway, since the 4.6L was too large to fit in the current Explorer, and they needed a V8 engine to compete in the market. The inexpensive, and now wildly popular, answer was the GT-40P head. Ford wasn't targeting performance enthusiasts when the 4.6L came out. It was a dog. Plain and simple. While hp and torque remained the same, it was elevated and the 5.0 enjoyed better low end, and of all things, better top end (for drag racing) too.
The 302 is a modern oversquare design. A 4" bore and 3" stroke affords a high revving capability with relatively modest parts because piston speed is greatly reduced. With the addition of the roller cam, and SEFI it became a legend at the races, and for good reason. It was a performer you could drive to the track without getting poor reliability or poor fuel economy. In the world of high rpms, the 302 as a base design is FAR more advantageous than the square 3.55x3.54 4.6L engines. The industry has been moving to, and staying with oversquare designs for performance engines. It's limiting factor are the pushrods, and head design. The head design issue was eliminated back in 1969-1970's Boss 302's. The Boss 302's sport head flow numbers much like today's 4.6L DOHC 4v engine. Pushrods were used on that engine safely to about 8000rpm. The most modern version of the 302 went in favor of a hyraulic camshaft. That limits it's higher rpm capability. A properly setup hydraulic lifter 302 can spin to 7000-7500rpms with out a whole lot of problems.
The The 4.6L was clearly not designed with high performance in mind. It was designed with the idea of meeting Joe Schmoe's desire to have a modern engine with performance as a 2nd rule. The first generation of the SOHC engine is a flop for performance. The addition of OBD II emissions systems, along with a weak head design, small bore, passive camshafts, and a restrictive intake holds the engine back. Off hand, I'd have to say it sounds a lot like the old stock 5.0HO, only you add in the fact it has a little bore, and the 5.0HO has a good cam. When the first impressions came out from the people who race, the 4.6L was given a miserable thumbs down. For years I remember reading about this revver 4.6L that was going to come out with 350hp and I waited. What was delivered was a peaky, and relatively weak 215hp Crown Vic engine. With no aftermarket to help it, an exploding plastic intake, and other problems, the engine basically sat the way it was for several years. The Mustang GT became the laughing stock of the performance car arena. A good driver in a Probe GT could smoke one. The older 94-95 GT's could at least dip in the bag of freebies to get into the 14's, but the 4.6 was a 15 sec car, and a mid 15 car with the auto. Here GM even bought into the idea the 4.6L might be a real performer so they went and made their LT-1 even faster in anticipation for battle with the new cammer 281. They certainly didn't need to. After 6 years of pleading with Ford to make the Mustang GT a performance car from the factory, they finally released the 1999 Mustang GT. The SOHC engine had gotten more aggressive cams, and far superior heads. The ignored the need to put parts in to support modifications though. Stock for stock rotating assembly's the 302 owns the 281 for reliable power levels. LOL. The 302 used to be considered kind of glass jawed.
The bottom line is, in the real world of 281ci or 302ci performance V8's, you're not going to see the rpms where pushrods become a limiting factor. Unless you're talking in excess of 7500rpms, there is no need to go to a SOHC 4.6L (not that it would handle the rpms stock anyway.) The 302 is the superior base engine for performance without a doubt.
My 02GT's fuel cutoff and redline are both lower than my 87GT's. I find that to be a miserable idea to swallow. I ran 4-5 times last night with my 02GT vs my friends delapadated 87GT with 260k on it. My 02 enjoyed a slim advantage. Had the 87 come equipped with the advantage of 3.27 gears like I had, I don't think my 02 would have beat him. All the modular guys who cry and whine about the new GT's being the **** have no clue what they are talking about. Must be comparing it to the pathetic SN95 series cars. I have now raced my 87GT exhaust, H-pipe, CAI vs my 01GT to which my 87 had the advantage. My 01GT vs my friends 87LX headers, dumps, K&N, timing to which my 01 may have enjoyed the slightest advantage, and my 02GT vs my other friend's 87GT exhuast, rebuilt 130k ago 306, K&N, timing. The new GT's are not much faster, and what they are faster is probably related to gearing. By the way. ALL 3 5.0's had well over 100,000 miles on the engines.
What does the future hold? The 4.6L won't be around much longer. The 5.0L is gone, but it's still very much active in the racing circuts, and the people in the racing circuits are scared of the black art of OHC's. Does the 5.0 have a performance future? Legendary engines always do. Edelbrock came out with a new head design for the FE engines not too long ago. Does the modular engine have a performance future? I think so, but the 4.6L doesn't. The 5.0L SOHC engine will probably be quite the performer in my opinion. Which would I choose to mod in 5 years? I don't know. We'll have to wait and see. I don't think the 4.6L can ever match the 5.0 in terms of performance capability on a realistic budget for the street in a N/A or forced induction setup. When you can have a very streetable N/A 302 making 330hp and running on 87oct for about $2000 including everything you need in even the exhaust section, it's just hard to do that with the 281. The PI head swap has become very popular on the 96-98GT's as it's about the biggest bang for the buck you can get. For $1500 you might get 280hp out of the Gen I car.