[Mr 5 0]

Chris/Kell:


Originally posted by PKRWUD

I do believe that organized religion has some merits, but for one to proclaim it's views are right, while all others are wrong, is just short of criminal.


Whoa! Let's back this train up a bit, shall we?

This is America, not Iran. We're fortunate enough to live in a country that allows each religious community the constitutional right to proclaim it's view is the 'only' correct one, but unlike Muslim countries, we do not have the right to jail, torture or kill those who don't agree with our individual religious view.

America is not a theocracy and never will be - too many competing religions and a sizable atheist/agnostic contingent so I find nothing 'criminal' about believing in one religion as the 'only' one and as for calling other religions 'bad'. That's natural if you truly believe that your religion is the only way to God, heaven and a full life. Most religious people of any particular faith see other religions as corrupt and leading to hell or something like it. They see this as sad and wrong but again; unlike the mid-east, we don't kill each other over it and many, many religions prosper here in America.

Christians (of which I'm one - full disclosure here) has benefitted the world in many ways and continues to do so today. It isn't Christians who behead reporters in Pakistan or drive planes into the Pentagon or the World Trade Center, killing thousands for 'Allah' (the Moon God).

The entire mid-east is controlled by Muslim leaders; some devout, some 'Muslims' in name only (like many Christians) and look at the poverty and strife there. Yes, I object to Islam on 'religious' grounds (another discussion) and the fact that it's oppressive and automatically cuts out half the population (female) from having a full life and contributing to society. Islam has also proven to be quite harsh to non-believers. So, yes, I object to it, the same as I find liberal Democrats objectionable but would never do more that talk or write about my objections to either one. I have no need to harm a Muslim to validate my religious belief. Most Christians feel the same way. We find Islam harmful and wrong, even..gasp...'bad' but we don't want to murder or jail peaceful Muslims in America. Democrats are tempting but no, I don't want to jail them or kill them, just defeat them politically.
Isn't democracy grand?

Please don't give me 'The Crusades' in an attempt to make a moral equivalence between the Islam of Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan (and the rest of the middle east) and Christianity. It doesn't play.

Yes, the Roman Catholic Church has a somewhat sordid pre-Reformation history and Christianity has it historical flaws but this is America in 2002, not the Dark Ages or some other bleak historical period and we don't behead people or torture and kill you - or others - because you're a non-believer, nor does any Christian or other religion wish to have that power.

That's the beauty of America. You can be as 'religious' as you please - even a Muslim - and - for the most part - no one will bother you. You can also be an atheist and find all religion boring, or hypocritical or just unacceptable to you and that's fine, too.

No one asks what religion you are before you can rent an apartment, get a job, get a loan, etc. That's true religious freedom, instituted and upheld for 225 years in a 'Christian' country.

Kell seems to find Christianity responsible for most of world's problems and that's simply absurd, in my opinion.

Sounds like a common justification for the atheist posture to me but it's way off. The examples of killing and destruction Kell lists, while mostly true, had little to do with religion and a lot to do with greed and power, such as the slaughter of the American 'Indian' and the Aztecs. About 35 women in early New England were accused of being witches and executed. Hundreds were exonerated after being accused. Of course, none should have been executed but the claims of a bloodthirsty Christian community in early Massachusetts is way overblown by those not cognizant of the facts and wishing to attack Christianity and draw moral equivalences that simply do not exist, especially in the 21st century.

My point is that in America in 2002, we are constitutionally free to worship as we please or not worship at all. We are not a theocracy and the fact that you may not like a certain religion gives you no rights to do anything other than pray for the other person or talk to him/her IF they allow you to. No more.

To atheists, all religion is a threat and they always drag out some Medieval horror done under the 'name' of a religion or try to equate Islam's extremes with Christianity, which is absurd.

Religion has easily done as much good as it's done harm and we're all quite free to reject it but let's not allow our preconceived notions about religion, especially Christianity, keep us from viewing religion as a whole on a rational basis and not attempt to make it something it isn't and hasn't been for a long time.

I find atheism an empty and sad way to live but I don't attempt to 'convert' atheists or label them as evil. The atheist non-belief is no threat to me or my faith. They think Christianity is foolish and I find their denial of a creator to be foolish. So what?
It's amazing how a calm and respectful view of the other guy's belief or non-belief can keep things cordial. Same with Islam. I find it bad for the participants on pure religious grounds but again, so what? I don't tolerate abuse of peaceful American Muslims and I don't wish to harm any.

The whole 'problem' of religious intolerance in America is way overblown in my opinion.