Aluminum VS. Iron

Oldschoolpony · 03-30-2001, 11:29 PM

Well, for me the arguement rages on. I currently have Windsor Jr's. and am looking to upgrade. Today at the Dyno shop, a place called Lugos, they told me they could get my Windsor Jr's top flow as good, for my aplication, a 347, as good if not better than aluminums. Keeping in mind this shop had around 40 mustangs there. and some VERY fast ones.( 8 sec cars ). I was told that they could drop in 2.05's into my heads and do massive porting intake and exhaust. run a set of 1 7/8 Cook racing headers with round ports and use the outer exhaust bolt on the heads. They showed my an 11.5 second F-150 with darts JR'S, also an 11 sec mustang with Windsor jr's that ran 9's with nitros.

Needles to say, now I'm really confused. I was about to dump 2000 into some heads, now I'm faced with 800 into my current heads and put the remaining money to bettering my motor set up. Any motor builders out there have any ideas??????? They Also said that my heads look like older iron TSF's but they wont know till its apart.

Mustangbelle306 · 03-31-2001, 12:26 PM

Well I had the same question too, because I have had sooo many overheating problems with my car, that with my new motor I wanted to stick with iron heads. From what I have heard, they can be worked to flow as good or better, but it comes down to the weight, and some crap about engine temperature. I don't know, and if anyone has any feedback, I'd appreciate it as well.

------------------
Elisha (Mustang Chick Extraordinaire)
1994 GT/Saleen: Cartech intake,4.10s, full exhaust, pulleys, Compucar nitrous kit 125 shot
Sold the 1986 LX sedan

http://www.geocities.com/mustangbelle_306
AOL name: GT306Chick

Dark Knight · 03-31-2001, 06:01 PM

it all depends on who you talk to really.. you can make iron heads work as good as aluminum, but you gotta port them alot to get them to flow like alum. heads do out of the box.. alum heads work better for blowers..
I'll stick with my AFR's.,.. I'll probably get another set for my 68 too... dump the ported 66 heads that are on it now..

------------------
84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer
3.55's, underdrives stock shorties
stock cam, 1.7's
14.06@100.21, 255RWHP on a hot day
265 on the mph/weight chart

Strim91GT · 03-31-2001, 07:43 PM

Well, i have edelbrock small block ford aluminum heads on mine. I really like them. But if your car runs hot, you have to watch out, because the cast iron block and the aluminum heads expand and shrink at different rates, making it prone to cracking if it runs really hot. But minee ran EXTREMELY hot when i had aluminum heads on it for a while and had no problems. I got a granatelli aluminum radiator from jegs for $300 that worked miracles. i need to put in a hotter thermostat because it never gets hot enough to get out of the warm up cycle. If your planning on going blower or nitrous, or lots of compression, the aluminums are more forgiving on detonation. I really like my aluminum's, i think they are thee way to go, but it's just my opinion. ask around and see what you think.

Brcuda · 03-31-2001, 08:42 PM

Strim, I agree with you fully.

------------------
Kenne Bell supercharged stang 93LX (the perfect sleeper) Named Wheezer 11.901@117.40 on BFGs/w 1.71 60's

Strim91GT · 03-31-2001, 11:52 PM

I forgot to mention that if you decide to go aluminum, it's well worth investing in a set of good head gaskets like fel pro's. I have the ford severe service gasket set in mine. I had fel pro's before. neither one gave me any problems at all. I've heard aluminum heads tend to blow head gaskets a little easier. but i've never had a problem with mine. A ford guy that i know around here really knows his stuff. and he's says he's never had any problems, so i'm not sure if that's just a rumor or not.

Brcuda: what have you got done to yours? sorry i'm kind of new around here. I don't know much, but i think i know a little bit.

juiceman · 04-01-2001, 10:07 PM

ok,iron heads are better than aluminum for many reasons. yes, you can get the windsor jr's to flow very well and since you already have the heads i would do it. most usually get the widsor sr's but no sense at that point. for everyones info, windsors flow the same and better than most of the aluminum heads out now. another theory is weight savings. if you are a serious bracket or class racer then sure it helps but other than that its pointless. spending 2000$ on heads because they're lighter and prettier is stupid. do yourself a favor and use the windsors. youll be very happy and save alot of money. if you have questions about iron vs aluminum e mail me and ill go more into detail. i am an engine builder. oh and about the shop not knowing if their tfs or windsors well theres a big difference in appearance. no need to remove the heads first. so be cautious. good luck

WADS56 · 04-02-2001, 12:16 AM

If they can get the Windor jr's to flow as good or better then the other aftermarket heads you were looking at I would spend my money on that. Remember though, just because one head flows more then another dosn't mean it is better. There is much more to look at like low lift flow #'s, valve size, and runner size. Some people test them different to. Make sure the flow #'s are tested at .28, that is prety much the standard.

If you can get a head with a 2.02 intake valve, and a 280 cc intake runner to flow the same as a head with a 2.05 intake valve, and 300 cc runners the smaller head will make more power. Big valves and runners kill velocity at low rpm. That is why port design is important so you can get a head to flow good in all areas not just max valve lift.

------------------
Blown 347 W/Canfield heads, solid roller cam, track times this spring mid 10's or bust

93lx 5.0 daily driver

Capri306 · 04-02-2001, 10:13 AM

Oldschoolpony: if you're that far into it and they claim they can do that kind of headwork for you, I'd say go for it. IF it's just for racing and not street action, that is.
-------------------------
Just an FYI comparison of Windsors vs. AFR 165's (street legal version):

AFR 165 SBF Street has a 165cc intake runner and flows 250/185 cfm @ 0.500" valve lift. Combustion chamber is also 58cc.

World's Windsor heads have 200cc intake runners and flow 232/145 cfm @ 0.500" lift. Combustion chamber is 64cc.

This info is straight from their own respective websites. BTW, I think sedanman found some guy running AFRs and an E303 cam with few other mods that ran 11.90's; at least that's what the post read in Street Racer's Corner.

I might be a college student making under $10 an hour, but I'm saving my pennies and getting the AFR's this summer.

------------------
Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online
1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73
1987 Mustang LX Notch

03-30-2001, 11:29 PM	#1
Oldschoolpony Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Gainsville,Fl Posts: 229	Aluminum VS. Iron Well, for me the arguement rages on. I currently have Windsor Jr's. and am looking to upgrade. Today at the Dyno shop, a place called Lugos, they told me they could get my Windsor Jr's top flow as good, for my aplication, a 347, as good if not better than aluminums. Keeping in mind this shop had around 40 mustangs there. and some VERY fast ones.( 8 sec cars ). I was told that they could drop in 2.05's into my heads and do massive porting intake and exhaust. run a set of 1 7/8 Cook racing headers with round ports and use the outer exhaust bolt on the heads. They showed my an 11.5 second F-150 with darts JR'S, also an 11 sec mustang with Windsor jr's that ran 9's with nitros. Needles to say, now I'm really confused. I was about to dump 2000 into some heads, now I'm faced with 800 into my current heads and put the remaining money to bettering my motor set up. Any motor builders out there have any ideas??????? They Also said that my heads look like older iron TSF's but they wont know till its apart.

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03-31-2001, 12:26 PM	#2
Mustangbelle306 Yay for Chickys Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 1,532	Well I had the same question too, because I have had sooo many overheating problems with my car, that with my new motor I wanted to stick with iron heads. From what I have heard, they can be worked to flow as good or better, but it comes down to the weight, and some crap about engine temperature. I don't know, and if anyone has any feedback, I'd appreciate it as well. ------------------ Elisha (Mustang Chick Extraordinaire) 1994 GT/Saleen: Cartech intake,4.10s, full exhaust, pulleys, Compucar nitrous kit 125 shot Sold the 1986 LX sedan http://www.geocities.com/mustangbelle_306 AOL name: GT306Chick

03-31-2001, 06:01 PM	#3
Dark Knight Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Az Posts: 854	it all depends on who you talk to really.. you can make iron heads work as good as aluminum, but you gotta port them alot to get them to flow like alum. heads do out of the box.. alum heads work better for blowers.. I'll stick with my AFR's.,.. I'll probably get another set for my 68 too... dump the ported 66 heads that are on it now.. ------------------ 84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer 3.55's, underdrives stock shorties stock cam, 1.7's 14.06@100.21, 255RWHP on a hot day 265 on the mph/weight chart

03-31-2001, 07:43 PM	#4
Strim91GT Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Kansas Posts: 59	Well, i have edelbrock small block ford aluminum heads on mine. I really like them. But if your car runs hot, you have to watch out, because the cast iron block and the aluminum heads expand and shrink at different rates, making it prone to cracking if it runs really hot. But minee ran EXTREMELY hot when i had aluminum heads on it for a while and had no problems. I got a granatelli aluminum radiator from jegs for $300 that worked miracles. i need to put in a hotter thermostat because it never gets hot enough to get out of the warm up cycle. If your planning on going blower or nitrous, or lots of compression, the aluminums are more forgiving on detonation. I really like my aluminum's, i think they are thee way to go, but it's just my opinion. ask around and see what you think.

03-31-2001, 08:42 PM	#5
Brcuda Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: St. Louis,Mo. USA Posts: 37	Strim, I agree with you fully. ------------------ Kenne Bell supercharged stang 93LX (the perfect sleeper) Named Wheezer 11.901@117.40 on BFGs/w 1.71 60's

03-31-2001, 11:52 PM	#6
Strim91GT Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Kansas Posts: 59	I forgot to mention that if you decide to go aluminum, it's well worth investing in a set of good head gaskets like fel pro's. I have the ford severe service gasket set in mine. I had fel pro's before. neither one gave me any problems at all. I've heard aluminum heads tend to blow head gaskets a little easier. but i've never had a problem with mine. A ford guy that i know around here really knows his stuff. and he's says he's never had any problems, so i'm not sure if that's just a rumor or not. Brcuda: what have you got done to yours? sorry i'm kind of new around here. I don't know much, but i think i know a little bit.

04-01-2001, 10:07 PM	#7
juiceman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ny Posts: 197	ok,iron heads are better than aluminum for many reasons. yes, you can get the windsor jr's to flow very well and since you already have the heads i would do it. most usually get the widsor sr's but no sense at that point. for everyones info, windsors flow the same and better than most of the aluminum heads out now. another theory is weight savings. if you are a serious bracket or class racer then sure it helps but other than that its pointless. spending 2000$ on heads because they're lighter and prettier is stupid. do yourself a favor and use the windsors. youll be very happy and save alot of money. if you have questions about iron vs aluminum e mail me and ill go more into detail. i am an engine builder. oh and about the shop not knowing if their tfs or windsors well theres a big difference in appearance. no need to remove the heads first. so be cautious. good luck

04-02-2001, 12:16 AM	#8
WADS56 gear banger Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: CHICAGO Posts: 1,144	If they can get the Windor jr's to flow as good or better then the other aftermarket heads you were looking at I would spend my money on that. Remember though, just because one head flows more then another dosn't mean it is better. There is much more to look at like low lift flow #'s, valve size, and runner size. Some people test them different to. Make sure the flow #'s are tested at .28, that is prety much the standard. If you can get a head with a 2.02 intake valve, and a 280 cc intake runner to flow the same as a head with a 2.05 intake valve, and 300 cc runners the smaller head will make more power. Big valves and runners kill velocity at low rpm. That is why port design is important so you can get a head to flow good in all areas not just max valve lift. ------------------ Blown 347 W/Canfield heads, solid roller cam, track times this spring mid 10's or bust 93lx 5.0 daily driver

04-02-2001, 10:13 AM	#9
Capri306 Moderator Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA Posts: 1,001	Oldschoolpony: if you're that far into it and they claim they can do that kind of headwork for you, I'd say go for it. IF it's just for racing and not street action, that is. ------------------------- Just an FYI comparison of Windsors vs. AFR 165's (street legal version): AFR 165 SBF Street has a 165cc intake runner and flows 250/185 cfm @ 0.500" valve lift. Combustion chamber is also 58cc. World's Windsor heads have 200cc intake runners and flow 232/145 cfm @ 0.500" lift. Combustion chamber is 64cc. This info is straight from their own respective websites. BTW, I think sedanman found some guy running AFRs and an E303 cam with few other mods that ran 11.90's; at least that's what the post read in Street Racer's Corner. I might be a college student making under $10 an hour, but I'm saving my pennies and getting the AFR's this summer. ------------------ Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online 1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73 1987 Mustang LX Notch