Checking Timing??

[Nixon1]

Ok..my Haynes manual says to either disconnect and plug vacuum lines to my distributor...which I don't have, since the car is a 91...so then it says to disconnectm a SINGLE-wire connector above my ignition module...well, I don't have one of those either. Only wiring above the module is a two-wire connector, that's just dangling there with a little piece of plastic clipped into it that's apparently made by Ford.. I also have a vacuum line running in front of the distributor, I'd guess it to be about a 6mm line..and it's disconnected but it's got a piece connecting it to another piece of vacuum line of the same size before it...but the piece must be a blocker because I started the engine and there isn't any vacuum leak. I need to check my timing guys! Car's a royal b*tch to start and it misfires when I step on the gas...AND I've got 92 octane in it right now, which is the highest octane sold here. I gotta get this adjusted!! Thanks.

[NotchJohnson]

your distributor doest have any vacuum lines going to it so cut that part out. Get yourself a timing light and do it that way. If you just want to start over, bring the #1 cylinder to TDC, and make sure the rotor is pointing to the #1 plug wire.

Also, that plastic clip you notice that is in with the distributor wiring is the spout connector. It has a piece conected to it that makes it look like a plug that is not being used. To adjust your timing, you must take this small piece out, adjust your timing to where you want it, then put the piece back in. The computer will not adhere to your timing adjustment if you leave this piece in.

[Nixon1]

Alright...I assume leaving this piece in will also throw the timing reading off...my old Camaro ran 10 degrees of timing but with the EST (basically same thing as this) clipped in it read more like 18-22 degrees. I'm gonna check the timing on it today and see what it's at...if it's at 14 or below I won't touch it...but above, and it's getting bumped back.

[NotchJohnson]

As long as the spout connector is left in, the computer will not adjust to the amount of timing you are trying to give it. Take it out, adjust the timing how you want it, and put it back in.

[fiveohpatrol]

with the spout connector removed you are setting the base timing. This takes the computer out of the picture completely. Then when you plug it back in, the computer reads that as base, and adds timing to that throughout the RPM range.

If this doesnt fix your misfire/starting problem, be sure to post about it and we'll try to help as best as possible.

[Nixon1]

Now for a new question.... Went to check the timing yesterday, and noticed I couldn't find any markings on the plate. So I took a rag and wiped it down and there are NO MARKINGS WHATSOEVER on the damn timing plate..there's just one little dash up top with "TIME" written next to it...and then an inch or so to the passenger side is a hole in the plate. Can someone please tell me what the hell I'm supposed to do with this? This misfiring is getting irritating! (By the way...SOME, not all, but SOME of the misfiring at idle is due to a vacuum leak..found an unplugged spout at the back of the upper intake manifold. Hookup looked identical to that of the Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor, but it was open. Need to get me a vacuum cap...couldn't get my hand back there to get duct tape around it to stay on.

[Godslayer]

The markings will be on the harmonic balancer. Mark whatever timing you want and adjust the line to the top edge of the plate thing with the hole in it. It's been awhile since I worked on a Mustang so I apologize for any inaccuracies.

Bob

[NotchJohnson]

If your car is a 91 it is mass air, and you want to keep the bap sensor open. On speed density cars it is a map (manifold absolute pressure?) sensor, but on mass air cars it is a bap(barometric air pressure?) sensor. Find out what was unplugged on your intake first. You should have the fpr hooked up to it, the long black vacuum line from the small 4-line connector (located on the pass side near the firewall) connected to it, there shoul be one large line going from the accesory vacuum tree to the intake, and your pcv valve. All these shoulod be plugged into the back of the intake. What one was disconnected?

[Nixon1]

Ok so I make the timing mark on the balancer align with the very very edge of the plate, past the hole?? Man, now I've gotta clean up the balancer too..argh. By the way...is the HO 302 an externally balanced motor? I assumed it was internally balanced but judging by the way the harmonic balancer is all chopped up, made me unsure.

Now...Notch..you're saying that I'm SUPPOSED to leak vacuum from my manifold?? That's gotta be the strangest thing I've ever heard..... Forgive me for my lack of knowledge but I only got this car about a week and a half ago...I'm completely at home around Chevy engines but I don't know crap about Ford...two different worlds.... So..where do I find the fuel pressure regulator?

Now, the vacuum line that was plugged and dangling...I'd guess it to be about a 6mm line, and it ran down into a box on the bottom of the car, passenger side...either the charcoal canister or a vacuum reservoir is my guess..pretty sure the line has a valve assembly in it too. It's got a joining piece connecting that line to the dangling line, but APPARENLY the joining piece is a blocker because I started the engine and finger-checked it..no vacuum leaking. Or possibly the valve isn't allowing a vacuum leak until there's some sort of pressure in the disconnected line, something weird like that.

[NotchJohnson]

First of all, of course you dont want vacuum leaking, and if it seemed as though I said that, sorry, thats not what I meant. The bap sensor is on the firewall, behind the intake. It has an opening on the bottom of it, and on a mass-air car, it needs to be open. The sensor measures barometric pressure so your car will compensate for high/low altitudes. Yes that box on the pass-front side is your charcoal canister. On my cobra intake, the vacumm line from that is hooked up to the front of the intake, there is a small fitting on it.

[Kamaro Killer]

Look at the throttle body. Behind that, (I believe to the left) is a bronze fuel pressure regulator (if it's stock) It should have a line coming straight out of the top of it.

[Chevyguy]

The Stock 5.0 balancer has a TDC mark and the degree marks on it, the pointer is just a TDC mark. You need to mark the TDC on the balancer and clean off the degree marks. I used white chalk to highlight the markings on my car. Also I have a Sunpro timing light with the dial back knob so I just use the knob to line up the two TDC marks and this gets me the timing reading on the knob, as I still had a hard time reading the degree marks on the black balancer.

And yes this is an external balance crank, there is a 50 oz counterweight on the balancer. This was done to reduce weight of the crankshaft. The original 302 was internal balance. I am fuzzy here but there is a 28 oz balancer too, those may have been early 80's 302's then went to 50 oz for the HO motors.

You can get a timing READING with the spout connector in. It will be about 22° or so at idle. When you pull the spout connector it drops down to the base timing. (dont try to pull it out while running, you will probably feed your hand to the fan or belt) Stock is 10° and this allows you to run 87 octane with pretty good power and no pinging with just about any weasel piss gas you end up getting out there.

I only bring the timing up when I am going to the track, I used 15° last time and can maybe go higher. I drove for 2-3 weeks with no pinging etc.. Was a bit snappier on the low end, but not worth the extra$$ for gas on the street.

Also you want all your vac lines properly attached at all times. The older manuals cover from 79-88 and cover 3 or more different engine control systems and can be a bear to decyper which car they are talking about. Chiltons has a 89-93 manual that only covers Mass air cars and is easier to work with, I have this one.

I worked on Chevys for years too, as long as you have the proper info, it's not too hard to figure out the EEC-IV system.

Once you get the timing set, you can try to figure out if any additional vac lines are broken or missing. Plus a rundown of any previous mods is helpfull. My car was super bone stock which helped me quite a bit, cus only I have changed anything. But you could find mis matched injectors and MAF, all sorts of disconnected Smog equipment, jacked up fuel pressure etc......
Take your time and tackle one thing at a time, it should eventually purr like a kitten.

Oh yeah, most obvious thing, throw a brand new set of Motorcraft plugs in there. GOK how bad the ones in there are.

[Godslayer]

Ok so I make the timing mark on the balancer align with the very very edge of the plate, past the hole??

Exactly.

Like other motors the HO 302 are all different in regards to the timing they can take. I used to run 18* base on my 87 GT with 110k on it without pining on 87 octane. You'd have to play with it obviously to see what your motor likes.


Bob

[Nixon1]

Where to begin...ok Notch..there is a fitting on my manifold, on the front (from front of the car)..its got a cap on it..evidently they didn't want emissions crap pumped back into it. I don't blame em!! That's getting left alone. I'll check this BAP sensor thing..but on the back of the manifold near the firewall there are 2 fittings that seem almost identical...one is connected, and the second is leaking vacuum. Not a bad leak..I'll buy a pack of carb vacuum caps at Discount Auto tomorrow and be done with it.

Kamaro..I see it...looks more silvery than bronze but I haven't looked that carefully at it so I can't say for sure..bad memory. I'll check all the lines on it tomorrow...too late here. Damn Florida mosquitos.

I'll try to get the timing checked as well tomorrow..I'd like to know what it's running... And..what exactly does a light ping sound like? The car and engine is so damn loud..I THINK I hear a ping but for all I know, it could be just a loose sensor hookup or something tapping on something else..but it's loudest from the valve cover/fuel injector area. I'm running premium by the way..92...

And..I'll check the plugs... I'm always just hesitant to mess with things on a car I haven't owned too long..takes me a while to get comfortable. The headers make it easy as hell to get to the plug though..I've never seen headers that actually make it EASY to get to them before, I was shocked when I popped the hood.

Didn't know these motors are externally balanced too... Oh well...it works..just a funny detail.

Thanks VERY VERY much everyone...this post has been wicked informative..I REALLY appreciate it!

[Kamaro Killer]

Pinging will sound like a crackeling noise as you're driving. It'll sound like it's coming from the area of the valve covers. If you hear this sound, you have to retard (set-back) your timing. Hope this helps, Keith

[Nixon1]

I hear no noise while driving..and with my head under the hood, near a valve cover, listening VERY carefully, I hear a tapping/ticking noise. That's the only funny noises I get...besides the doof sounds on deceleration coming from the exhaust. Gotta check for exhaust leaks...maybe THAT might have something to do with the misfire when I step on it...it's doing the exact same thing a guy across the street's car did when he was running open headers..it was a freshly built carbed 383 stroker...everytime he revved it it missed for a second.

[HotRoddin]

Originally posted by Nixon1
I hear a tapping/ticking noise.

If you're talking about idling, its not pinging your hearing. Sounds like a stuck lifter or to much clearence on a rocker or an exhaust leak to me. In fact if you have a rocker that has backed off so far that its clicking, then that could explain the poor running too.
If you have an engine stethescope you should be able to pin point it fairly easily.

[Nixon1]

Hmm...ok, so I hear 'doof' sounds, like swooshes of air, coming from my pipes during deceleration, but they're sometimes there during idle too... Misfires pretty bad when I step on it. Today I had the car in Park and held the pedal at 2000 rpms steady and it backfired every few seconds constantly. I hear that ticking noise..it's not too loud but it's there. I seem to be breathing quite a bit of gas fumes from in the cabin.... That sound like an exhaust leak at the headers to you? Sounds like one to me....dunno any other ways to check though. Don't have an engine stethoscope or anything..just gonna plug a small vacuum leak and check/adjust the timing tonight..I'll let you know if these things fix anything.

[Kamaro Killer]

The fumes are because you don't have tailpipes, or even turndowns. My 88 was like that, it was horrible at stop lights, cause the smoke from the exhaust would come right in the car. Be careful, you can actually pass out from too much exhaust in the car. You are actually losing HP by running without them. On a side note, I have some brand new flowmaster 2 1/2' tailpipes (not mufflers, tailpipes only) that I'll sell you if you want some tailpipes. Take care, Keith

[Nixon1]

You're saying running without tips or turndowns is making me lose power? Another one of those funny backpressure issues?? All I notice power-wise is it's a tad low-end deficient...it enjoys rpms....I just attributed that to the free-flowing exhaust and possibly a cam made for higher rev power rather than low end, but I don't know..