turn signal-maybe the whole harness-calling all electricians?

rwhite65 · 07-23-2003, 12:54 PM

My turn signals always worked, but they never canceled itself since I have owned it (1995). So I finally ordered one of the cam replacement kits from the paddock and installed it yesterday. It was a severe pain installing it....because trying to soder the wires and then get them to hide in the steering Col. and not be in the way was difficult. I hate to soder as it is.
So now my turn signal clicks nicely like it should, but only my right turn signal front will work. None of the rear turn signals will work...and the left front will not turn on either (no left turn signal at all). TO top it off, my brake lights are not working, but I have no idea how that could be tied to this, I would think that should be a different story there.....maybe they were not working for a while and I had not realized it. Does anyone know if one may effect the other? I looked at the rear bulbs in the car and the bulbs are not blown, so I am pretty sure it is not them. Maybe the brake switch on the pedal?
Does anyone know if the turn siganl harness plugs in with some kind of pig tail to the rest of the wiring on the car? If so, I may just order the whole thing so I can get rid of my splicing on the new turn signal cam into the car.
Any help is GREATLY appreciated
Ryan

71grande · 07-23-2003, 03:24 PM

This aught to tick you off...

I had the same problem as your first one. My signals wouldnt cancel out. so I pought a new cam kit and it was the plate, wiring and everything. allI had to do was pul my steering wheel, remove three screws holding the old one in and unplug it, then just drop inthe new one. no soldering, splicing, headaches or anything. The only problem I have with it is it is about 1 inch longer than the stock one was, but thats ok. I jst ziptied it out of the way under the dash.

Mike

Jeff65 · 07-23-2003, 04:01 PM

Ryan,

I have a '65 so well know what's inside the steering column. How if you've added aftermarket stuff maybe my guidance won't help but here goes:

a. Turn signal switch turns ON intermittently the high intensity filament in tail lights and marker lights in the direction in which the switch is pressed. If you press on the brake, it turns OFF intermittently the high intensity filament in the tail lights and marker lights. Its important to recognize the switch does both ON and OFF switching in order to make the lights blink.

b. The turn signal switch is located in the steering column where it can be cancelled as a result of steering wheel movement. A cancel cam serves to trip the switch back to OFF following a turn. Two alignments must be done to make the cancel cam work. It has to be correctly oriented on the steering wheel. The column has to be adjusted in height to ensure the cancel cam engages the switch.

What to do:

1. REmove steering wheel. Expose turn signal switch. While open, turn key to ACC and engage turn signal handle, first right then left. Check to see that tail lamps and marker lamps work correctly. If they don't work with the steering wheel off then they won't work with it on either. Troubleshoot your problems with the steering wheel removed.

2. If faulty, check connections first. Leaving the steering column are two wire bundles. One has six connections and the other two connections. Ensure both connectors are firmly attached and locked male/female. A bad connection here will result in the kind of problems you have. Note that the six terminal connector has wiring for the parking lights and the two terminal connector has wiring for the brake lights. If you suspect the connections validate by applying 12 volts to each of the connector pins in place as follows:

a. Disconnect six terminal connector, find and apply 12 volts to the green-white wire. Left parking light should illuminate. If it doesn't trace down and locate open circuit.

b. Disconnect six terminal connector if not already disconnected. find and apply 12 volts to the white-blue wire. Right parking light should illuminate. If it doesn't trace down and locate open circuit.

c. Disconnect two terminal connector, find and apply 12 volts to the green-orange wire. Left stop light should illuminate. If it doesn't trace down and locate open circuit. Likely in connectors at tail lamp assembly.

d. Disconnect two terminal connector if not already disconnected, find and apply 12 volts to the orange-blue wire. Right stop light should illuminate. If it doesn't trace down and locate open circuit. Likely in connectors at tail lamp assembly.

The above four tests directly power the lamp filaments and if the lamps don't illuminate then you have to find out why they don't and fix whatever is required. Turn signals will not work unless these circuits are good.

Once you know you have good circuitry and harnesses, then check the switch and replace it if necessary.

After checking or replacing switch, replace connectors and test system before installing steering wheel.

Replacing steering wheel:

1. Install cancel cam on steering wheel underside, orient the fingers of the cam towards the turn signal switch. With wheels straight ahead, and steering wheel held in upright position, cancel cam middle (middle of the two fingers) should point directly at the middle of the turn signal switch. Flip steering wheel over and adjust cam until it is correctly oriented.

2. Install steering wheel paying heed to the installed height above the steering column. If there is a gap between the column and the wheel the cancel cam may not engage the switch. If the gap is closed and tight (not overly so but close) then the cancel cam should work. Click right and turn the wheel right. Return wheel to center and switch should cancel. Repeat for left signal, turn wheel left then return to center. Switch should cancel.

If it doesn't cancel, loose two bolts at base of steering column and slide column upward to better mate with installed steering wheel. The column and bracket are designed to allow about 3/8" of travel and should be enough to close any gap you might have provided the steering wheel is properly installed. With aftermarket steering wheel hubs you may have to work at it a bit to achieve a small gap. If you're satisfied the steering wheel is safely installed yet it the column does not pull up high enough, you can remove the column and expand the hole in its side to allow for more travel. Do this only if you're perfectly satisfied the steering wheel is properly and safely mounted.

Hope this helps.

hobgoblin351 · 07-24-2003, 12:18 PM

Damn Jeff thats good directions! I just opted for the new switch and harness though. Just plugged it in and it worked......well sorta. All the tail lights/brake lights and turn signals are tied together. It took me a few hours and a wiring diagram to figure it out but they work now. You might want to pick up a diagram to help you eliminate what good so you can look for whats bad. IT'S A REAL PAIN IN THE BUTT. But it can be done. Imtraced my problem to a short in the horn ring. Go figure! Who would have thought the horn would be connected to the tail lights. Good luck.

Jeff65 · 07-24-2003, 12:24 PM

I get all the local Mustang clubs wiring problems. After awhile it almost makes sense! Pleased to hear you broke the wiring code and have a happy car now.

rwhite65 · 07-24-2003, 07:15 PM

Well, I ordered a whole new switch with the wiring on it. But you all pointed out a few more problems.
I did this all the while swapping an original wheel on. The car had an Imitation minature grant looking steering wheel that I have hated for YEARS. But I noticed after swapping the wheel, there is a larger gap between the wheel and column now......I thought that was odd, cause everything was seated properly.....good to know I can adjust it and that may be atributing to my problem.

This may bring up another problem....the wheel came off of another musatng, but is missing the parts of the horn assembly that go on the top of the Wheel (the button itself, something that holds that on, and whatever else there is suppose to be). Does anyone know what parts I need to order to go with the wheel? Pictures maybe. I thought I could hold off on this and not worry about the horn for a while....I should still be able to have turn signals and brake lights without the horn can't I?

I have the parts that go between the wheel itself and the column. Thanx to all!!!!

Jeff65 · 07-25-2003, 08:40 AM

There are several steering wheels and each is different. There are:

1. Early '65 (generator cars)
2. Late '65 (alternator cars)
3. Pony

Early and late '65 look the same but have slightly different guts and horn rings. Pony is a different wheel altogether.

The difference between early and late is slight but enough that you can't put a horn ring from a late on early or vice versa. The clip lengths are different and if you try, chances are you'll break a clip or two and then have to start over. My recollection is there are two concentric metal rings that screw into the base of the steering wheel, one or both of these has clips. They are isolated from each other electrically and when the steering wheel is installed, brushes contact the rings and permit electrical contact when the horn ring is tipped. The horn ring and contacts are normally held off the steering wheel with a spring. When the ring is tipped, the spring compresses and allows contact to be made across the slip rings.

Without drawings its impossible to describe these parts in a meaningful way. Even if I could, I know there are two different sets and simply trying to collect them may lead to having a mis-matched set of parts.

Replacement steering wheels come with most of this stuff fitted inside the hub. I believe the only parts needed are the horn ring assembly and spring.

There are drawings on page 59 of the NPD catalog.

The Pony wheel is a completely different model with its own parts.

You're correct in regards operation without horn switch components. It will not affect brake or turn signal operation. Be sure the brush contacts don't contact anything but the slip rings on the undeside of the wheel.

07-23-2003, 12:54 PM	#1
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	turn signal-maybe the whole harness-calling all electricians? My turn signals always worked, but they never canceled itself since I have owned it (1995). So I finally ordered one of the cam replacement kits from the paddock and installed it yesterday. It was a severe pain installing it....because trying to soder the wires and then get them to hide in the steering Col. and not be in the way was difficult. I hate to soder as it is. So now my turn signal clicks nicely like it should, but only my right turn signal front will work. None of the rear turn signals will work...and the left front will not turn on either (no left turn signal at all). TO top it off, my brake lights are not working, but I have no idea how that could be tied to this, I would think that should be a different story there.....maybe they were not working for a while and I had not realized it. Does anyone know if one may effect the other? I looked at the rear bulbs in the car and the bulbs are not blown, so I am pretty sure it is not them. Maybe the brake switch on the pedal? Does anyone know if the turn siganl harness plugs in with some kind of pig tail to the rest of the wiring on the car? If so, I may just order the whole thing so I can get rid of my splicing on the new turn signal cam into the car. Any help is GREATLY appreciated Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

07-23-2003, 03:24 PM	#2
71grande Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Clemente CA. Posts: 85	This aught to tick you off... I had the same problem as your first one. My signals wouldnt cancel out. so I pought a new cam kit and it was the plate, wiring and everything. allI had to do was pul my steering wheel, remove three screws holding the old one in and unplug it, then just drop inthe new one. no soldering, splicing, headaches or anything. The only problem I have with it is it is about 1 inch longer than the stock one was, but thats ok. I jst ziptied it out of the way under the dash. Mike __________________ A great man once told me, "..." Well any way I guess that he wasn't that great. My garage: 1971 Mustang Grande, MSD6A, 625 Road Demon JR, Edelbrock Performer manifold, Hopes and Dreams... 1970 Norton 750 Commando 1993 Saturn SC2. The wifeys. fuzzy dice and all.

07-24-2003, 12:18 PM	#4
hobgoblin351 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 245	Damn Jeff thats good directions! I just opted for the new switch and harness though. Just plugged it in and it worked......well sorta. All the tail lights/brake lights and turn signals are tied together. It took me a few hours and a wiring diagram to figure it out but they work now. You might want to pick up a diagram to help you eliminate what good so you can look for whats bad. IT'S A REAL PAIN IN THE BUTT. But it can be done. Imtraced my problem to a short in the horn ring. Go figure! Who would have thought the horn would be connected to the tail lights. Good luck. __________________ 1970 Stang Conv: en:Boss351 (balanced/blueprinted) mech cam(240*@.050/.540 lift) Scrw in studs/comp cams rllr rkr Mldn valves 2.19in 1.71ex ported polished cc'd hrdnd ex Keith Black FT pistons(10.25/1) Weiand Excellorator manifold Holley700 DP mech 2nds MSD 6 box and Dis Headers/2 1/2 inch duels tr: modified FMX re:9-inch/3.89 limited slip

07-24-2003, 07:15 PM	#6
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	thanx all Well, I ordered a whole new switch with the wiring on it. But you all pointed out a few more problems. I did this all the while swapping an original wheel on. The car had an Imitation minature grant looking steering wheel that I have hated for YEARS. But I noticed after swapping the wheel, there is a larger gap between the wheel and column now......I thought that was odd, cause everything was seated properly.....good to know I can adjust it and that may be atributing to my problem. This may bring up another problem....the wheel came off of another musatng, but is missing the parts of the horn assembly that go on the top of the Wheel (the button itself, something that holds that on, and whatever else there is suppose to be). Does anyone know what parts I need to order to go with the wheel? Pictures maybe. I thought I could hold off on this and not worry about the horn for a while....I should still be able to have turn signals and brake lights without the horn can't I? I have the parts that go between the wheel itself and the column. Thanx to all!!!! __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

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07-23-2003, 04:01 PM	#3
Jeff65 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 208	Ryan, I have a '65 so well know what's inside the steering column. How if you've added aftermarket stuff maybe my guidance won't help but here goes: a. Turn signal switch turns ON intermittently the high intensity filament in tail lights and marker lights in the direction in which the switch is pressed. If you press on the brake, it turns OFF intermittently the high intensity filament in the tail lights and marker lights. Its important to recognize the switch does both ON and OFF switching in order to make the lights blink. b. The turn signal switch is located in the steering column where it can be cancelled as a result of steering wheel movement. A cancel cam serves to trip the switch back to OFF following a turn. Two alignments must be done to make the cancel cam work. It has to be correctly oriented on the steering wheel. The column has to be adjusted in height to ensure the cancel cam engages the switch. What to do: 1. REmove steering wheel. Expose turn signal switch. While open, turn key to ACC and engage turn signal handle, first right then left. Check to see that tail lamps and marker lamps work correctly. If they don't work with the steering wheel off then they won't work with it on either. Troubleshoot your problems with the steering wheel removed. 2. If faulty, check connections first. Leaving the steering column are two wire bundles. One has six connections and the other two connections. Ensure both connectors are firmly attached and locked male/female. A bad connection here will result in the kind of problems you have. Note that the six terminal connector has wiring for the parking lights and the two terminal connector has wiring for the brake lights. If you suspect the connections validate by applying 12 volts to each of the connector pins in place as follows: a. Disconnect six terminal connector, find and apply 12 volts to the green-white wire. Left parking light should illuminate. If it doesn't trace down and locate open circuit. b. Disconnect six terminal connector if not already disconnected. find and apply 12 volts to the white-blue wire. Right parking light should illuminate. If it doesn't trace down and locate open circuit. c. Disconnect two terminal connector, find and apply 12 volts to the green-orange wire. Left stop light should illuminate. If it doesn't trace down and locate open circuit. Likely in connectors at tail lamp assembly. d. Disconnect two terminal connector if not already disconnected, find and apply 12 volts to the orange-blue wire. Right stop light should illuminate. If it doesn't trace down and locate open circuit. Likely in connectors at tail lamp assembly. The above four tests directly power the lamp filaments and if the lamps don't illuminate then you have to find out why they don't and fix whatever is required. Turn signals will not work unless these circuits are good. Once you know you have good circuitry and harnesses, then check the switch and replace it if necessary. After checking or replacing switch, replace connectors and test system before installing steering wheel. Replacing steering wheel: 1. Install cancel cam on steering wheel underside, orient the fingers of the cam towards the turn signal switch. With wheels straight ahead, and steering wheel held in upright position, cancel cam middle (middle of the two fingers) should point directly at the middle of the turn signal switch. Flip steering wheel over and adjust cam until it is correctly oriented. 2. Install steering wheel paying heed to the installed height above the steering column. If there is a gap between the column and the wheel the cancel cam may not engage the switch. If the gap is closed and tight (not overly so but close) then the cancel cam should work. Click right and turn the wheel right. Return wheel to center and switch should cancel. Repeat for left signal, turn wheel left then return to center. Switch should cancel. If it doesn't cancel, loose two bolts at base of steering column and slide column upward to better mate with installed steering wheel. The column and bracket are designed to allow about 3/8" of travel and should be enough to close any gap you might have provided the steering wheel is properly installed. With aftermarket steering wheel hubs you may have to work at it a bit to achieve a small gap. If you're satisfied the steering wheel is safely installed yet it the column does not pull up high enough, you can remove the column and expand the hole in its side to allow for more travel. Do this only if you're perfectly satisfied the steering wheel is properly and safely mounted. Hope this helps.

07-24-2003, 12:24 PM	#5
Jeff65 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 208	I get all the local Mustang clubs wiring problems. After awhile it almost makes sense! Pleased to hear you broke the wiring code and have a happy car now.

07-25-2003, 08:40 AM	#7
Jeff65 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 208	There are several steering wheels and each is different. There are: 1. Early '65 (generator cars) 2. Late '65 (alternator cars) 3. Pony Early and late '65 look the same but have slightly different guts and horn rings. Pony is a different wheel altogether. The difference between early and late is slight but enough that you can't put a horn ring from a late on early or vice versa. The clip lengths are different and if you try, chances are you'll break a clip or two and then have to start over. My recollection is there are two concentric metal rings that screw into the base of the steering wheel, one or both of these has clips. They are isolated from each other electrically and when the steering wheel is installed, brushes contact the rings and permit electrical contact when the horn ring is tipped. The horn ring and contacts are normally held off the steering wheel with a spring. When the ring is tipped, the spring compresses and allows contact to be made across the slip rings. Without drawings its impossible to describe these parts in a meaningful way. Even if I could, I know there are two different sets and simply trying to collect them may lead to having a mis-matched set of parts. Replacement steering wheels come with most of this stuff fitted inside the hub. I believe the only parts needed are the horn ring assembly and spring. There are drawings on page 59 of the NPD catalog. The Pony wheel is a completely different model with its own parts. You're correct in regards operation without horn switch components. It will not affect brake or turn signal operation. Be sure the brush contacts don't contact anything but the slip rings on the undeside of the wheel.