Cast Iron Block Welding - 427FE

[Unit 5302]

Anybody know a good welder with experience and equipment to weld a 1963 Ford 427 FE?

The block was frozen and developed some hairline cracks about 25 years ago, and it's been sitting ever since. The cracks are, as mentioned above hairline in type, and they all seem to be located at the back of the engine (inside and out). There is no heaving present so it doesn't look like it was frozen too hard.

If you're interested in more story, read on.

My dad and I brought the block to B&A Engine located in Ramsey (moved recently to Blaine) Minnesota. They were able to hot tank and magnaflux most of the block and found a the hairline fractures that need repairing.

While the guy at B&A feels everything that he has found is certainly repairable, he wants to remove the cam bearings to get a better look at everything before proceeding. My dad gave him the go-ahead to look further into the block and prep it for repairs, but he's become increasingly upset with B&A. First, when we dropped the engine off on December 13th or 14th, he quoted 2 weeks or so. He finished most of the work on Thursday (March 30). While my dad told him that he wasn't in any hurry, 3 months is quite a while, especially considering that he didn't truly complete the magnaflux. Anyway, all that my dad was informed was that the block was ready to be picked up (Thursday) and despite asking several times, the person he spoke to didn't know anything about the block except that it was ready. When we got there, either expecting there to be no cracks or be irrepairable, everybody at the shop seemed to know that there were cracks, but they had not proceeded to complete the magnaflux job.

So I took off from work, and my dad and I rolled out there for nothing. He still needs to complete the magnaflux job. My dad okay'd the go-ahead to complete the job, and we said we'd pay for the repair, if possible. Anyway, when we were shown the cracks it was immediately evident that the block had been sitting after being cleaned for some time with NO protection. It had rusted pretty good on the inside and spots where the paint was damaged on the outside. The more my dad thought about it on the way home and overnight, the more pissed he got. What kind of an engine builder would let a cast iron block rust like that? My dad was also concerned that the guy at B&A indicated he thought the cracks could somehow extend to the cam bearing area, in which case, the builder said it was irrepairable. The estimate to weld the block was $500-600+ FYI.

So, anybody with a suggestion or an expert welder?

[Unit 5302]

I managed to locate this place on a quick internet search...

Crow Custom Cast Welding

http://www.castmetalwelding.com/toc.htm

Anybody know anything about them? Since they're located in Hudson, WI, it's an easy trip.

[Dark_5.0]

Welding cast iron is pretty damn hard to do correctly. I have done it before with success but it sucks.

You have to heat the steal for several hours to burn out any impurities or oils and then weld it up with a nickel welding rod.

Good luck,

[Unit 5302]

Yeah, I saw a 1937 Buick inline block that the guy at B&A engines had welded, and the weld looked good, but in all honesty, I'm not 100% confident in his equipment and techniques.

Crow claims to heat the block to 800*f before welding, 400* for aluminum.

Anyway, as most people know, cast iron is extremely hard to weld, and this block is "cast iron" not cast steel like blocks manufactured after the 60s, which makes it even harder. Cast iron is very brittle having no flexibility, and when you weld it, it heats up and expands. Since the metal will not flex at all, the propensity is to crack along or through the weld as the block cools and contracts. The welding MUST be done by somebody that knows what they're doing or you wind up with scrap metal.

[andy669]

If the cracks are just hairlines and theres no heaving or chunking, I have a hard time believing its cracked into the cam tunnel. Its possible, but you'd think if it was cracked bad enough to get in the cam tunnel there'd be alot more visible damage. How far is the cam tunnel away from any water jackets anyway? Do you know what type of magnetic particle inspection they used? The shop I am from has 1 system for doing blocks, and another system for heads and cranks. Magnufluxing a block is not cut and dry and certainly leaves an inexperienced user room for error.

Andy

[Unit 5302]

Originally Posted by andy669

If the cracks are just hairlines and theres no heaving or chunking, I have a hard time believing its cracked into the cam tunnel. Its possible, but you'd think if it was cracked bad enough to get in the cam tunnel there'd be alot more visible damage. How far is the cam tunnel away from any water jackets anyway? Do you know what type of magnetic particle inspection they used? The shop I am from has 1 system for doing blocks, and another system for heads and cranks. Magnufluxing a block is not cut and dry and certainly leaves an inexperienced user room for error.

Andy

The cracks are hairline, but quite long. You can follow the crack up close to the cam tunnel at the back of the engine, but the builder wanted to pull out the bearings to be sure it didn't go through. He said that cracks like that sometimes do crazy things. The crack on the outside of the block is not really visible with the naked eye at a glance. There is definitely not heaving anywhere. You have to know where you're looking and what you're looking for to see it.

We're taking the block to Crow now. Leaving the block unprotected after hot tanking it really pissed my dad off, and it was a seriously inexcusable move for a professional engine shop. The 427 was bored .020 when my dad got it back in the 60s (it had quite a ridgeline that needed to be taken out and he didn't think .010 would do it) and the block is only good for another .010 or so. If the block has to be bored out again to eliminate rust, I'll be ready to strangle the guy.

[69fastback]

Just as easy to pay the money and get a new one. dsc motorsports has a few FE blocks. Really good guy owns the place I traded him some parts for a discount on the 428 block i bought from him. http://www.dscmotorsport.com/

[Rev]

I would just pay the $$$ and get a Shelby aluminum 427 FE block. I know it's $$$, but that's what I would do if I was going the FE route.

Rev

[Unit 5302]

The 427FE I have is one of the rarest ever made, and its been in the family for 35 years. While I know I could "buy" an FE block ($800+ probably another $200 shipping and 3-4weeks for a top-oiler 427 at DSC), it certainly wouldn't be the same to me. To me, there is no legitimate reason to build an FE engine, except cool-factor and nostalgia.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Unit 5302

Tthere is no legitimate reason to build an FE engine, except cool-factor and nostalgia.

I 100% agree.

Rev

[69fastback]

I defenitly agree the only reason for an FE is the cool factor because it sure is a real pain in having one. I would get a 427 galaxie in a heart beat if i had the money.