393 and an AOD

saywhenn94 · 11-02-2002, 05:35 PM

How well does anybody think an AOD will hold up behind my 393, and what mods need to be done to the AOD?

Here's my combo: 10.5:1 comp, XE-294H, 250-256 554in. 558ex., port matched TFS high ports, TFS 351R manifold, 75mm t-body, long tubes, 3" x-pipe, flowmaster am. thunder kit, in a full weight 92 LX.

I'm getting sick of the idea of using my fully manual Dynamic Racing C4 in an everyday driver.

Let me know what you think.

Eric4Nitrous · 11-02-2002, 05:45 PM

What's wrong with the Dynamic trans?? An aod won't hold the power that, that 393 is making.

jim_howard_pdx · 11-02-2002, 06:24 PM

Eric is a competent racer, but he is not knowledgeable about the AOD.

A fairly stock AOD will survive 750 HP without problems. A fairly stock C4 will disintegrate at 550 hp.

When you put the 1,000 dollars into building up the C4 to take 500+ HP, you would still have a stronger transmission putting the 1,000 into the AOD. It is simply a terrific transmission for racers. You can use a 4.10 or 4.30 gear ratio at the track, and drive home on the freeway at 2,500 RPM at 65 mph. That is fun.

The AOD is mostly based upon the FMX transmission we ran behind 525 hp Clevelands in the 70's. 10 and 11 second brackets were easy on FMX units. We went with C6's when we worked with big blocks or 9 second brackets.

The AOD's shortcoming is that the Ford engineers went for gas mileage instead of going for performance. A stock AOD will lock the torque converter upon shifting into third gear. It just takes all the wind out of the sails when you are racing.

LENTCO in Canada created a conversion to keep 3rd gear in an unlocked circuit, but maintains 4th gear lockup on their street AOD transmissions. These will take 750 HP all day long. They also build race units for 900+ hp engines behind their strip AOD's. These have single shafts deleting the locked converter.

I would strongly recommend that you speak to Art Carr, B&M and LENTCO. They will advise you on what units they sell. You need to decided what bracket you plan to race in. Because if you are after 10's or faster, you will probably want a set up that runs consistent. A transbrake transmission is what I usually recommend for those that live for the quarter mile. I would recommend a street AOD version for those who like to pick on Corvettes and Porshes on the highway.

If you are good at reading manuals, an AOD is fairly easy to rebuild on your own. I rebuild my Automatics and I have never had a problem. If you could get LENTCO to sell you a converter and Control Valve, you could probably buy a rebuild kit from B&M and do the whole thing for under a thousand dollars. If you want to do this, get an AOD from a 93-95 Ford Truck. These will have the lower or wide ratio gear set, and the 2" band for the overdrive. You can buy these for about 150.00 at most auto recylers.

Hope this helps.

saywhenn94 · 11-02-2002, 06:25 PM

Nothing is wrong with the C4, it has a manual valve body in it and I would constantly be shifting it. Its gonna be a daily driver and I would benefit from the over drive in the AOD.

saywhenn94 · 11-02-2002, 06:37 PM

Thanks jim that helped, I already have an AOD from a 1989 GT would that serve the same purpose as the one from a truck? I'm just looking for something I can drive to the track, run whatever, then drive it home trouble free and also get good gas mileage.

91GTturbo · 11-02-2002, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jim_howard_pdx
A fairly stock AOD will survive 750 HP without problems. A fairly stock C4 will disintegrate at 550 hp.

LENTCO in Canada created a conversion to keep 3rd gear in an unlocked circuit, but maintains 4th gear lockup on their street AOD transmissions. These will take 750 HP all day long. They also build race units for 900+ hp engines behind their strip AOD's. These have single shafts deleting the locked converter.

I have a hard time getting a fairly stock AOD to hold anything over 400 hp. Could you please enlighten me as to how to get one to last at 750 hp? I've tried the one piece input shaft, converter, new bands, a extra cooler. Nothing seems to work. I just don't believe a fairly stock AOD can handle the hp you've said without spending lots of cash. Maybe I'm just misinterpreting what you've said.

And it's Lentech I believe. Never heard of LENTCO.

Eric4Nitrous · 11-02-2002, 08:33 PM

Like i said earlier theirs no way it will handle the power that, that 393 is producing. I'd love to see a aod handle over 450hp.

IBStanged87 · 11-02-2002, 10:05 PM

If you are gonna race it and want a Trans Brake get the Strip Terminator with a Brake if not just get the Strip Terminator and a NON-LOCK up converter from lentech and give it all that 393 will throw at it! It will take the 700+hp. I have a Stock AOD never been touched other than drop the pan and put in Valvebody and change fluid and filter.. And got over 2 complete and hard seasons on it and not gonna touch it this winter because if it isn't broke don't fix it.

www.Lentechautomatics.com

saywhenn94 · 11-02-2002, 10:49 PM

Lentech seems a bit on the pricey side for one of their street performance transmissions.

What makes the AOD such a weak trans?

Has anyone else had any luck running an AOD with an engine that produces higher torque levels?

Then what if I decided to add nitrous

There's gotta be an over drive automatic out there that can handle high HP and TQ with out breaking the bank.

Jmark · 11-02-2002, 11:50 PM

saywhenn94 ,
You might want to get in touch with these guy's. I'm looking at purchacing their AOD w/trans brake. Right now, they have a special price offer too!

http://www.artcarr.com/

www.dwayne@artcarr.com

Thank's

TwiLighTBluEGT · 11-03-2002, 01:23 AM

Get the Lentech Strip terminator. A stock AOD could handle the power for a bit, but it would die pretty fast.

fiveohpatrol · 11-03-2002, 03:20 AM

Quote:

A fairly stock AOD will survive 750 HP without problems. A fairly stock C4 will disintegrate at 550 hp.

LOL, thanks, thats the best laugh I've had in a while now.

TONYD · 11-03-2002, 12:19 PM

There is ONLY one reliable way to go with a aod.. Stick with the 2 piece input (but upgrade to better shaft) , LENTECH for the valve body (none better and i would not P i s s on Art carr,,,big name but had a lot of problems with there junk) And Precision Industries for the convertor "stallion" (worth 6 tenths in my aode car and .8 in my old 93aod car,,, and worth 5 tenths over a junk art carr convertor)

BigT

saywhenn94 · 11-03-2002, 12:34 PM

TONYD, what kind of setup are you runnig?

Who did your trans work?

TONYD · 11-03-2002, 12:51 PM

Start with the air filter and go down..lol..

C & L 76
FRPP 65mm throttle body
BOX STOCK cobra intake
Box stock 165 Afr aluminum heads
1.7 cobra roller rockers
STOCK CAMSHAFT
stock shortblock with 115k and new timing chain/gaskets
NOS dry kit 150 pills but VERY rich at present
24 lb injectors
3.73 gears
moser 28 spline axles
Mac equal shorties
off road h pipe
mac flowpath mufflers
2.5 inch mac tailpipes
Precision Industries Stallion convertor(too tight but good for 1.62 sixties so far)
STOCK AODE with fresh rebuild
LENTECH transbrake valve body (best single item i ever purchased for my aode,,,now it shifts like a real trans ought too)
Welds big and littles
275/50/15 nittos (switching to bfg's to see if i can get my sixty a little better)
JMS custom chip
That is about it..

11.45@118 on bottle and keep in mind this is witha STOCK cam and car weighs 3630 with me in it.. I am a 350 lb driver though and still has all a/c cd player etc..

BigT

saywhenn94 · 11-03-2002, 02:07 PM

Is your AODE a stock rebuild with the Lentech valve body or does it also have a shift kit?

Thats a nice ET considering that it has a stock cam and is a very mild setup.

TONYD · 11-03-2002, 07:14 PM

I actually originally had a shift kit in the stock valve body.. It still sucked as far as i was concerned.. With the shift kit it shifted like i feel like it should have shifted in STOCK trim.. The lentech trans brake valve body is the complete valve body including the shift solenoids.. on the aode... (a normal older aod without the e does not have solenoids) It was a bit pricey but was the best money to date that i have spent on the car.. IT takes away all pcm control of the line pressure but still allows the pcm to control shift point and convertor lockup.. So with the built in higher line pressure is shifts solid .. you would NOT want this valve body if you had a stock convertor as it would probably bark the tires in all gears even under light throttle because the line pressure is fixed at a high psi..

Thanks for the compliment.. I was looking to build a sleeper and i believe i have accomplished that..

I plan on sending the convertor back and have it loosened about 500 rpm and then try for 10.99 with the stock shortblock.. After that if i don't get tired and sell it and build something different i plan on getting a coast 347 , step up to 185 afr's and a systemax intake and then a custom grind Ed Curtis cam.. and shoot for low 10's

BigT

saywhenn94 · 11-03-2002, 07:33 PM

Yeah the AODE sounds alot different than the AOD, I may just buy the rebuild kit from Lentech along with the valve body and a PI converter and attempt it on my own.

Good luck with your car, sounds like you can have alot of fun on the street!!

jim_howard_pdx · 11-03-2002, 09:27 PM

Thanks for the heads up on Art Carr AOD stuff. They were decent for C4 or C6 street transmissions. I prefer to run B&M parts in my race transmissions.

Regarding the 89 AOD, you have the narrow gears 2.4 first, 1.68 second, and 1.0 third. 1.0 and .67 final gears are the same for all AODs.

Motorsports sells a wide ratio kit for the AOD which is what goes into the truck AODs and the newer AODE. These get 2.8 first, 1.84 seconds, high rpm one way clutch assembly.

Personally I would go with the one piece non lockup power shaft. Alway with a 351's torque. The 393 will be a brute.

When I said a nearly stock AOD will survive 700 hp let me define nearly stock for everyone. I am glad some out there have a sense of humour and did not just bash on ol jim here, (not that I don't deserve it once in a while).

The stock AOD is a piece of junk. Eric is right, and someone else out there said pretty much the same thing. They do just fine running through first and second gear, then third just kills the race, OD band will grenade eventually, and if you run it past 5,500 RPM the one way clutch will END EVERYTHING.

So here goes the education.....

AOD's are really easy to disassemble. When you remove the pan PHOTOGRAPH the way the linkage goes into the valve body controls OR YOU WILL BE A SORRY S O B.

Then dissassemble the AOD following the rebuild kit's instruction. I would use the B&M kit but I have had some ok experiences with ATI (hope I did that better than my lentco for lentech error).

You can use the narrow gears, (what you have got now), especially if you are running 4.30's and up. If you are running 3.70's or down you should go with the wide ratio. You need the high rpm one way clutch. Without it you are asking for problems. Most lunched AOD's I look at have the one way clutch looking like a pretzel. Then use most of the most modern AODE seals, accumultors and such.

Listen to the one's that know....Buy the LENTECH control valve if you want to keep the automatic shifting action. If you quarter mile with a smile, you must go with a trans brake set up.

I really hate automatics other than the consistency in ET's. So I set up all my automatics with fully manual valve bodies and trans brakes. I like really high stalls. I would go with a 3500 stall. Then buy an air conditioning condensor from your local recycler shop, mount it in front of your radiator, and use it as your transmission cooler. You may think I am kidding, but seriously I AM NOT KIDDING.

Heat and slow soft shifting is what wears out a transmission. The stock cooler is a joke. Aftermarket coolers are a joke. Air conditioning condensors work REALLY well. They keep the transmission cold. Also go for the trick flow AOD deep pan. This will put an extra quart in and has fins to help cool.

Ford Motorsport has the racing clutches and steels that allow you to increase the grip. These are essential.

The big thing I go for is the solid power shaft. I do not like lock up torque converters. Art Carr does, and that may be a big reason their stuff breaks.

I usually don't build an engine under 375 hp. Even my Honda engines have this much power or more. So lock up torque converters are the first thing to go. END OF STORY.

Finally, you want to use the 2" over drive band. You also probably want to use the super coupe accumulators and seals. Something I learned in racing is to drill 4 to 8 holes right under where the bands grab the drums. This allows the fluid to be displaced sooner. This allows you to dramatically reduce the temperature of the transmission, plus shifts are firmer, faster, and you will have a blast with the consistency in the ets.

Remember to chamfer the holes so a burr doesn't eat up your bands.

A local transmission shop will probably help you evaluate all your old parts and will help you order replacement stuff. If not, the magazines are full of AOD rebuild articles. I must have 6 or 8 of them in my file cabinets.

So Eric and the others are right when they say a stock AOD is junk. But the changes I make and the changes LENTECH makes are all basically stock parts from ford and a little ingenuity from guys that fix the mistakes.

The thing is not to be afraid of the unit. It is solid. With a fully manual valve body, a trans brake, and a one piece power shaft I have seen AOD's campaign in the 9 second brackets without failure or hickups. This is a real testament to FORD.

HotRoddin · 11-03-2002, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jim_howard_pdx
Thanks for the heads up on Art Carr AOD stuff. They were decent for C4 or C6 street transmissions.

This really puzzles me ?? Things must have really changed because when i was growing up in so. calif in the hay day of drag racing, I know very few funny cars in the nation that weren't running an Art Carr automatic ... and the cars were already well up into the 1600 to 2000 HP range ?? I can't imagine anyone living that knows more about a racing automatic than Art Carr ???

11-02-2002, 05:35 PM	#1
saywhenn94 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Warren, Mi. Posts: 50	393 and an AOD How well does anybody think an AOD will hold up behind my 393, and what mods need to be done to the AOD? Here's my combo: 10.5:1 comp, XE-294H, 250-256 554in. 558ex., port matched TFS high ports, TFS 351R manifold, 75mm t-body, long tubes, 3" x-pipe, flowmaster am. thunder kit, in a full weight 92 LX. I'm getting sick of the idea of using my fully manual Dynamic Racing C4 in an everyday driver. Let me know what you think. __________________ 91 GT Convertable, 306, TFS TW heads, B41 cam, Holley Systemax, S-Trim, Bassani LT's, and Flo's

11-02-2002, 05:45 PM	#2
Eric4Nitrous Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Va Posts: 1,122	What's wrong with the Dynamic trans?? An aod won't hold the power that, that 393 is making. __________________ 68 Camaro Gene Fulton 632ci Two stages of Jug 8.41 164mph Rockingham 1-26-03

11-02-2002, 06:24 PM	#3
jim_howard_pdx Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 247	Eric is a competent racer, but he is not knowledgeable about the AOD. A fairly stock AOD will survive 750 HP without problems. A fairly stock C4 will disintegrate at 550 hp. When you put the 1,000 dollars into building up the C4 to take 500+ HP, you would still have a stronger transmission putting the 1,000 into the AOD. It is simply a terrific transmission for racers. You can use a 4.10 or 4.30 gear ratio at the track, and drive home on the freeway at 2,500 RPM at 65 mph. That is fun. The AOD is mostly based upon the FMX transmission we ran behind 525 hp Clevelands in the 70's. 10 and 11 second brackets were easy on FMX units. We went with C6's when we worked with big blocks or 9 second brackets. The AOD's shortcoming is that the Ford engineers went for gas mileage instead of going for performance. A stock AOD will lock the torque converter upon shifting into third gear. It just takes all the wind out of the sails when you are racing. LENTCO in Canada created a conversion to keep 3rd gear in an unlocked circuit, but maintains 4th gear lockup on their street AOD transmissions. These will take 750 HP all day long. They also build race units for 900+ hp engines behind their strip AOD's. These have single shafts deleting the locked converter. I would strongly recommend that you speak to Art Carr, B&M and LENTCO. They will advise you on what units they sell. You need to decided what bracket you plan to race in. Because if you are after 10's or faster, you will probably want a set up that runs consistent. A transbrake transmission is what I usually recommend for those that live for the quarter mile. I would recommend a street AOD version for those who like to pick on Corvettes and Porshes on the highway. If you are good at reading manuals, an AOD is fairly easy to rebuild on your own. I rebuild my Automatics and I have never had a problem. If you could get LENTCO to sell you a converter and Control Valve, you could probably buy a rebuild kit from B&M and do the whole thing for under a thousand dollars. If you want to do this, get an AOD from a 93-95 Ford Truck. These will have the lower or wide ratio gear set, and the 2" band for the overdrive. You can buy these for about 150.00 at most auto recylers. Hope this helps. __________________ 1966 Customized for daily street and highway domination. 358 Windsor running 425 HP C-4 Auto and 3.25 Posi

11-02-2002, 06:25 PM	#4
saywhenn94 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Warren, Mi. Posts: 50	Nothing is wrong with the C4, it has a manual valve body in it and I would constantly be shifting it. Its gonna be a daily driver and I would benefit from the over drive in the AOD. __________________ 91 GT Convertable, 306, TFS TW heads, B41 cam, Holley Systemax, S-Trim, Bassani LT's, and Flo's

11-02-2002, 06:37 PM	#5
saywhenn94 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Warren, Mi. Posts: 50	Thanks jim that helped, I already have an AOD from a 1989 GT would that serve the same purpose as the one from a truck? I'm just looking for something I can drive to the track, run whatever, then drive it home trouble free and also get good gas mileage. __________________ 91 GT Convertable, 306, TFS TW heads, B41 cam, Holley Systemax, S-Trim, Bassani LT's, and Flo's

11-02-2002, 08:33 PM	#7
Eric4Nitrous Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Va Posts: 1,122	Like i said earlier theirs no way it will handle the power that, that 393 is producing. I'd love to see a aod handle over 450hp. __________________ 68 Camaro Gene Fulton 632ci Two stages of Jug 8.41 164mph Rockingham 1-26-03

11-02-2002, 10:05 PM	#8
IBStanged87 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Elizabethton,TN U.S. Posts: 41	If you are gonna race it and want a Trans Brake get the Strip Terminator with a Brake if not just get the Strip Terminator and a NON-LOCK up converter from lentech and give it all that 393 will throw at it! It will take the 700+hp. I have a Stock AOD never been touched other than drop the pan and put in Valvebody and change fluid and filter.. And got over 2 complete and hard seasons on it and not gonna touch it this winter because if it isn't broke don't fix it. www.Lentechautomatics.com

11-02-2002, 10:49 PM	#9
saywhenn94 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Warren, Mi. Posts: 50	Lentech seems a bit on the pricey side for one of their street performance transmissions. What makes the AOD such a weak trans? Has anyone else had any luck running an AOD with an engine that produces higher torque levels? Then what if I decided to add nitrous There's gotta be an over drive automatic out there that can handle high HP and TQ with out breaking the bank. __________________ 91 GT Convertable, 306, TFS TW heads, B41 cam, Holley Systemax, S-Trim, Bassani LT's, and Flo's

11-02-2002, 11:50 PM	#10
Jmark Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tejas, USA Posts: 8	saywhenn94 , You might want to get in touch with these guy's. I'm looking at purchacing their AOD w/trans brake. Right now, they have a special price offer too! http://www.artcarr.com/ www.dwayne@artcarr.com Thank's __________________ J. Mark MY Vehicles: 72 Mach 1 351 CJ 89 5.0 LX (2003 Project Car) 2001 Red Lightning #2633 Best ET / MPH 13.203 / 106.34

11-03-2002, 01:23 AM	#11
TwiLighTBluEGT Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 157	Get the Lentech Strip terminator. A stock AOD could handle the power for a bit, but it would die pretty fast. __________________ 1991 Mustang GT Conv: 58,000 original miles, 2nd owner. Engine: FMS 65mm tb/spacer, C&L 73mm maf, MAC cai. Drivetrain: Built AOD w/ Edge 2800rpm lockup converter, hardened 3-4 inner shaft, Trans-Go shift kit, B&M supercooler, FMS 3.73 gears & aluminum d/s, rebuilt traction lock. Exhaust: BBK unequal length shorty headers, BBK o/r h-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers. Chassis/suspension/brakes: Kenny Brown supersubs. The rest is stock.

11-03-2002, 12:19 PM	#13
TONYD Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: HUNTINGTON,TX Posts: 33	There is ONLY one reliable way to go with a aod.. Stick with the 2 piece input (but upgrade to better shaft) , LENTECH for the valve body (none better and i would not P i s s on Art carr,,,big name but had a lot of problems with there junk) And Precision Industries for the convertor "stallion" (worth 6 tenths in my aode car and .8 in my old 93aod car,,, and worth 5 tenths over a junk art carr convertor) BigT

11-03-2002, 12:34 PM	#14
saywhenn94 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Warren, Mi. Posts: 50	TONYD, what kind of setup are you runnig? Who did your trans work? __________________ 91 GT Convertable, 306, TFS TW heads, B41 cam, Holley Systemax, S-Trim, Bassani LT's, and Flo's

11-03-2002, 12:51 PM	#15
TONYD Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: HUNTINGTON,TX Posts: 33	Start with the air filter and go down..lol.. C & L 76 FRPP 65mm throttle body BOX STOCK cobra intake Box stock 165 Afr aluminum heads 1.7 cobra roller rockers STOCK CAMSHAFT stock shortblock with 115k and new timing chain/gaskets NOS dry kit 150 pills but VERY rich at present 24 lb injectors 3.73 gears moser 28 spline axles Mac equal shorties off road h pipe mac flowpath mufflers 2.5 inch mac tailpipes Precision Industries Stallion convertor(too tight but good for 1.62 sixties so far) STOCK AODE with fresh rebuild LENTECH transbrake valve body (best single item i ever purchased for my aode,,,now it shifts like a real trans ought too) Welds big and littles 275/50/15 nittos (switching to bfg's to see if i can get my sixty a little better) JMS custom chip That is about it.. 11.45@118 on bottle and keep in mind this is witha STOCK cam and car weighs 3630 with me in it.. I am a 350 lb driver though and still has all a/c cd player etc.. BigT

11-03-2002, 02:07 PM	#16
saywhenn94 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Warren, Mi. Posts: 50	Is your AODE a stock rebuild with the Lentech valve body or does it also have a shift kit? Thats a nice ET considering that it has a stock cam and is a very mild setup. __________________ 91 GT Convertable, 306, TFS TW heads, B41 cam, Holley Systemax, S-Trim, Bassani LT's, and Flo's

11-03-2002, 07:14 PM	#17
TONYD Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: HUNTINGTON,TX Posts: 33	I actually originally had a shift kit in the stock valve body.. It still sucked as far as i was concerned.. With the shift kit it shifted like i feel like it should have shifted in STOCK trim.. The lentech trans brake valve body is the complete valve body including the shift solenoids.. on the aode... (a normal older aod without the e does not have solenoids) It was a bit pricey but was the best money to date that i have spent on the car.. IT takes away all pcm control of the line pressure but still allows the pcm to control shift point and convertor lockup.. So with the built in higher line pressure is shifts solid .. you would NOT want this valve body if you had a stock convertor as it would probably bark the tires in all gears even under light throttle because the line pressure is fixed at a high psi.. Thanks for the compliment.. I was looking to build a sleeper and i believe i have accomplished that.. I plan on sending the convertor back and have it loosened about 500 rpm and then try for 10.99 with the stock shortblock.. After that if i don't get tired and sell it and build something different i plan on getting a coast 347 , step up to 185 afr's and a systemax intake and then a custom grind Ed Curtis cam.. and shoot for low 10's BigT

11-03-2002, 07:33 PM	#18
saywhenn94 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Warren, Mi. Posts: 50	Yeah the AODE sounds alot different than the AOD, I may just buy the rebuild kit from Lentech along with the valve body and a PI converter and attempt it on my own. Good luck with your car, sounds like you can have alot of fun on the street!! __________________ 91 GT Convertable, 306, TFS TW heads, B41 cam, Holley Systemax, S-Trim, Bassani LT's, and Flo's

11-03-2002, 09:27 PM	#19
jim_howard_pdx Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 247	Thanks for the heads up on Art Carr AOD stuff. They were decent for C4 or C6 street transmissions. I prefer to run B&M parts in my race transmissions. Regarding the 89 AOD, you have the narrow gears 2.4 first, 1.68 second, and 1.0 third. 1.0 and .67 final gears are the same for all AODs. Motorsports sells a wide ratio kit for the AOD which is what goes into the truck AODs and the newer AODE. These get 2.8 first, 1.84 seconds, high rpm one way clutch assembly. Personally I would go with the one piece non lockup power shaft. Alway with a 351's torque. The 393 will be a brute. When I said a nearly stock AOD will survive 700 hp let me define nearly stock for everyone. I am glad some out there have a sense of humour and did not just bash on ol jim here, (not that I don't deserve it once in a while). The stock AOD is a piece of junk. Eric is right, and someone else out there said pretty much the same thing. They do just fine running through first and second gear, then third just kills the race, OD band will grenade eventually, and if you run it past 5,500 RPM the one way clutch will END EVERYTHING. So here goes the education..... AOD's are really easy to disassemble. When you remove the pan PHOTOGRAPH the way the linkage goes into the valve body controls OR YOU WILL BE A SORRY S O B. Then dissassemble the AOD following the rebuild kit's instruction. I would use the B&M kit but I have had some ok experiences with ATI (hope I did that better than my lentco for lentech error). You can use the narrow gears, (what you have got now), especially if you are running 4.30's and up. If you are running 3.70's or down you should go with the wide ratio. You need the high rpm one way clutch. Without it you are asking for problems. Most lunched AOD's I look at have the one way clutch looking like a pretzel. Then use most of the most modern AODE seals, accumultors and such. Listen to the one's that know....Buy the LENTECH control valve if you want to keep the automatic shifting action. If you quarter mile with a smile, you must go with a trans brake set up. I really hate automatics other than the consistency in ET's. So I set up all my automatics with fully manual valve bodies and trans brakes. I like really high stalls. I would go with a 3500 stall. Then buy an air conditioning condensor from your local recycler shop, mount it in front of your radiator, and use it as your transmission cooler. You may think I am kidding, but seriously I AM NOT KIDDING. Heat and slow soft shifting is what wears out a transmission. The stock cooler is a joke. Aftermarket coolers are a joke. Air conditioning condensors work REALLY well. They keep the transmission cold. Also go for the trick flow AOD deep pan. This will put an extra quart in and has fins to help cool. Ford Motorsport has the racing clutches and steels that allow you to increase the grip. These are essential. The big thing I go for is the solid power shaft. I do not like lock up torque converters. Art Carr does, and that may be a big reason their stuff breaks. I usually don't build an engine under 375 hp. Even my Honda engines have this much power or more. So lock up torque converters are the first thing to go. END OF STORY. Finally, you want to use the 2" over drive band. You also probably want to use the super coupe accumulators and seals. Something I learned in racing is to drill 4 to 8 holes right under where the bands grab the drums. This allows the fluid to be displaced sooner. This allows you to dramatically reduce the temperature of the transmission, plus shifts are firmer, faster, and you will have a blast with the consistency in the ets. Remember to chamfer the holes so a burr doesn't eat up your bands. A local transmission shop will probably help you evaluate all your old parts and will help you order replacement stuff. If not, the magazines are full of AOD rebuild articles. I must have 6 or 8 of them in my file cabinets. So Eric and the others are right when they say a stock AOD is junk. But the changes I make and the changes LENTECH makes are all basically stock parts from ford and a little ingenuity from guys that fix the mistakes. The thing is not to be afraid of the unit. It is solid. With a fully manual valve body, a trans brake, and a one piece power shaft I have seen AOD's campaign in the 9 second brackets without failure or hickups. This is a real testament to FORD. __________________ 1966 Customized for daily street and highway domination. 358 Windsor running 425 HP C-4 Auto and 3.25 Posi