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#1 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2
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![]() Been doing alot of searching around and seem to come up with 8 different answers to sunday.
Im told with SD i can do heads and intake, that SD reacts to cams sometimes good and sometimes bad. I have seen afew run cams ok... have heard its the duration the sd has issues with yet see a guy here running a Ecam on a SD car. So whats the word from those running SD and cams? Current set up i have is a SD 1987 5.0 5speed. It has 1.7 rockers on a stock cam, E7 heads, stock intake, Hpipe with dumps and 3:73 gears. not sure what it runs - a Gtech said 13.8, but no official 1/4 mile times yet. Personally i would like to put some gt40 heads on it, a decent intake, get a cam to go with it and see low to mid 13's on the engine. Maybe throw some nos into the mix and visit the 12's. keeping the stock interior in it. Do i REALLY need to do the mass air swap to do this? Thanks |
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#2 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Skiatook, Oklahoma
Posts: 193
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![]() I to have te same basic ?. What all mods can be done to sd car? I have an 88gt with SD. When I was looking for Stang I saw several on e-bay at the time that were SD with super chragers and other mods. I even contacted the pepole saleing the cars to confirm that they were still SD. The biggest problem they had was surging idle. Just what I have seen. My car is all stock no mods of any kind YET.
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#3 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2
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![]() Been doing some research and found some answers to my questions - interent is wonderful lol....
Found one proven combo: 1988 Lx Hatch 5 spd SPEED DENSITY. Bassani full lengths/ x-pipe, flowmasters, 1250 intake matched E7's, bowls blended, exh-bumps removed, GT40 intake w/65mm TB, STOCK CAM w/1.7's, pullies, K&N, 190 lb pump, pro5.0 shifter, spec 1 clutch, Eibach DL kit, 90/10's 50/50's, 4.10's, 26X10 Et Drags, front sway bar removed, full weight- A/C and smog still there! lol Best ET (n/a): 12.68 @ 106 w/ 1.64 60' Best ET (75 shot) 11.86 @ 111.8 1.54 60' With a ton of others running low to mid 12's as well. Looking at his combo and what he is running id say im not far away with some home porting and afew bucks in springs, shocks, TB and intake. I am assuming in a GT that i would guess is a tad heavier then his LX and on street tires its still a honest low 13 and maybe a high 12. Also found that the following cams will work with SD - you will need an adjustable fuel reg - comp cams nx264hr crower 15510 or 15511 comp cams xe270hr Info was found at 50tech.com So its off to ebay to see about getting some parts and seeing if i can make this thing any faster heehhe. FYI right now i run a stock cam with the 1.7 rockers and i get a surge at idle till the car is warmed up - its NEVER died on me, but gets annoying when the police are sitting next to you at a light lol.... After the car is warm it idles smooth at 900rpm and sounds very strong. I liked the sound of the 15511 crower cam - had a slight lope to it and wanna see if that will work with the stock 87 block with the 1.7 rockers. anyways found some answers ![]() David 87 GT hatch short shifter on 5 speed standard 3:73 gears, 1.7 rockers on stock cam, cold air induction |
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#4 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: southern Illinois
Posts: 312
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![]() i put a cobra intake with no problem and have read that a mild cam and heads can be done but the fuel psi has to altered for some reason.
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88 gt convertable =-= cobra intake, accufab 65 mm tb headers alum underdrives steeda alum.lca's, springs, c/c plates kyb struts 230 hp to da wheels http://www.cybersteed.freeservers.com |
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#5 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 634
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![]() One way you need to tune SD is with an adjustable fuel regulator. Definately get one with mods. I'm still speed density and recently dynoed at 277RWHP and 330RWTQ.
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Tom (Torque) Moss 88Gt 5spd Vert, FLowmaster Catbacks, stock cam advanced 4° @ 108.5° ICL, NMRA prepped GT40P heads 1.85/1.55 valves and 1.7 rockers, MAC P headers Jet-Hot coated, 97 Exlporer intake (ported lower), TB and injectors. 277RWHP/330RWTQ (SAE). http://www.fastlanecars.com/ |
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#6 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Staging lane
Posts: 4,337
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![]() If I put my 19# injectors back in my car runs great with the old speed ensity set-up I still have.
I have Canfield Aluminum heads with 2.02 1.60 valves Ported cobra intake and 65mm TB E-303 cam An adjusable FPR is a must with a speed density car
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92' LX-Big brakes, Lots and lots of suspension, GT40X heads, Ported cobra intake, stock cam, Vortech SC trim. 00' Lightning-Stock 88'CRX-13 second ego killer |
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#7 |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 5,246
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![]() The reason the FPR is absolutely necessary with SD is because the computer cannot measure fuel or air entering the engine by volume. It has a finite table of adjustments that it can make, and once your car is running outside that 20% or so, it can no longer compensate for the modifications, and you develop problems.
All the mods you're making increase the amount of air flowing through the engine, but the computer doesn't know anything about that. All the computer knows is air density, rpm, throttle position, and engine temp. Based on that, it says "okay, I think I should be injecting fuel for about this much time" When you add all the mods, it injects what it thinks is the appropriate amount of fuel, but it's reading knock sensors and oxygen sensors that are screaming lean condition at it. By increasing the fuel pressure, you trick the computer into injecting more fuel than what it thinks it's injecting, and things work out. |
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#8 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Skiatook, Oklahoma
Posts: 193
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![]() Very nice Unit. Well said. I was wondering how the fpr was going to fix the problem. Thanks. Ive put off doing an thing to my car just for what ive read about the to systems. Didnt want to spend lots moneys and the thing not run right. This is not an issue, but what does it do to the gas milage?
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#9 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 634
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![]() The EEC does know how much fuel should be being injected as it monitors the O2 sensors in closed loop operation. It will adjust injector pulse widths if needed to richen or lean depending on whether there is too much or too little fuel. In open loop (wide open throttle - WOT) the EEC ignores the O2 sensors and goes straight to the table look ups for fuel and spark. So, you can tune your fuel needs at WOT with the fuel pressure regulator and the EEC will tune A/F ratios back into spec when running part throttle normal driving conditions. This keeps fuel consumption at or close to stock.
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Tom (Torque) Moss 88Gt 5spd Vert, FLowmaster Catbacks, stock cam advanced 4° @ 108.5° ICL, NMRA prepped GT40P heads 1.85/1.55 valves and 1.7 rockers, MAC P headers Jet-Hot coated, 97 Exlporer intake (ported lower), TB and injectors. 277RWHP/330RWTQ (SAE). http://www.fastlanecars.com/ |
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#10 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A.
Posts: 1,850
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![]() I have had a B, an E, and a wolverine 1087 in mine. E7s, ported E7s, big valve E7s, shaved E7s, Edelbrock performers, ported perfs, and now I am tring heavly ported perfs on a 342, ported cobra, cut and extended, and a X-cam reground by cam motion. I have had NOS on this car for 10 years. 70 - 100hp shot dry. And even a supercharger. All with 19lb injectors, (sep the super crger, 30s) It all worked. My car has seen many 11 sec slips, and whipped manny-a-ass. I an now tring to run 10s on the motor and a little more 10 on the spray. Do what you want and don't worry about the SD blues, its a myth, the people selling mass air are tring to get rich
![]() I even made a box that fit on top of the stock lower intake and had 2 stock TBs on top of it linked together, that worked too.
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88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid ![]() |
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#11 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 5,246
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![]() Quote:
The 02 sensors tell it how lean/rich the engine is running in closed loop, but since closed loop goes out the window about 3 seconds (unless you're an unlucky person with a Cobra) after you put the pedal down 75% or more, it doesn't even care what the O2 sensors are reading. Also, the O2 sensors don't know how much fuel or air is being mixed in the engine so it can only read lean/rich fuel conditions, not actual air or fuel volumes. The SD EEC has a finite table (which is much more flexible than MAF car tables) of injection data to use. If you go outside that table, the EEC assumes a sensor is malfunctioning so it either discards data or goes into limp mode, and this is when the drivability issues surface. The idea is to keep the ratio of air and fuel coming into the engine close enough to stock so the EEC can compensate. An analogy is the EEC is balancing its checkbook, but it only cares to get within $200. It thinks it knows how much money there is, but its balance doesn't match the balance on the bank statement (oxygen sensor). It looks at it's tables and counts deposits for $1000 (air intake) and it counts its withdrawls for $1000 (fuel injected). The problem is mom (the E303 camshaft) made a birthday present of $500 (air) into the account that it didn't know about. |
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#12 | ||||
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 634
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![]() Quote:
Quote:
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Tom (Torque) Moss 88Gt 5spd Vert, FLowmaster Catbacks, stock cam advanced 4° @ 108.5° ICL, NMRA prepped GT40P heads 1.85/1.55 valves and 1.7 rockers, MAC P headers Jet-Hot coated, 97 Exlporer intake (ported lower), TB and injectors. 277RWHP/330RWTQ (SAE). http://www.fastlanecars.com/ |
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#13 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Skiatook, Oklahoma
Posts: 193
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![]() Wow Let the tuneing begin. This is great to hear. So what your doing I guess is bolting on the mods , makeing a pass on the enigne at wot and reading the pugs and adjusting fpr to get the right burn?
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#14 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Skiatook, Oklahoma
Posts: 193
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![]() I must say very nice. Thanks For the link to that web site very well appreciated.
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#15 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 634
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![]() Your welcome, lots of info on that site actually, not just limited to the EEC stuff. Lots of diagrams and tech stuff also.
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Tom (Torque) Moss 88Gt 5spd Vert, FLowmaster Catbacks, stock cam advanced 4° @ 108.5° ICL, NMRA prepped GT40P heads 1.85/1.55 valves and 1.7 rockers, MAC P headers Jet-Hot coated, 97 Exlporer intake (ported lower), TB and injectors. 277RWHP/330RWTQ (SAE). http://www.fastlanecars.com/ |
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#16 |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 5,246
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![]() Perhaps its just a myth about the 93 Cobra computers having a 7 second delay before entering open loop then.
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#17 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 634
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![]() To the best of my knowledge it is. 7 seconds is forever in EEC clock speed - why would they delay it that long?
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Tom (Torque) Moss 88Gt 5spd Vert, FLowmaster Catbacks, stock cam advanced 4° @ 108.5° ICL, NMRA prepped GT40P heads 1.85/1.55 valves and 1.7 rockers, MAC P headers Jet-Hot coated, 97 Exlporer intake (ported lower), TB and injectors. 277RWHP/330RWTQ (SAE). http://www.fastlanecars.com/ |
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#18 |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 5,246
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![]() I believe the word was they were worried about the warranty claims they expected from Cobra owners. It's the reason they detuned the heck out of the Cobra computers with the worst fuel/air and timing curves.
Open loop delay is one of the things an EEC tuner or similar device can adjust. http://www.allfordmustangs.com/techa...CTuner_FAQ.pdf The top of page 13 lists this command, though it's indicating high load is 1/3+ throttle. Of course, the fact it can adjust it doesn't necessarily mean that it's preset at 3 or 7 seconds, etc. |
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#19 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2
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![]() I know this is not a mustang question but there seem to be a lot of people that are very knowledgeable. Here is what I have in my 89 Ranger 2wd. 86 non H.O. Speed Density with an AOD from an 86 Grand Marquis (the car was cheap complete) no A/C no smog pump, all else is stock.
I have been reading a lot of info about using an Explorer or Cobra intake and gt40 heads and a cam with the duration of no more than 114 because of vacuum issues. Would this work with my non H.O. engine and would I see any significant increase in power, would I need to upgrade to 19# injectors I believe mine has 17#, and would I need an adjustable fuel regulator, more gph fuel pump, headers, dist, coil, and wires? I am looking for some specific info. on what combos might work since money is tight and do not want to just through money and parts at it that wiont work. |
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#20 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 634
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![]() If the EEC you are using was meant for 17# injectorsyou beter stick with them. You might want to get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator for some added pessure if yu need it. The EEC will not tune out the added fuel if the engine needs it.
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Tom (Torque) Moss 88Gt 5spd Vert, FLowmaster Catbacks, stock cam advanced 4° @ 108.5° ICL, NMRA prepped GT40P heads 1.85/1.55 valves and 1.7 rockers, MAC P headers Jet-Hot coated, 97 Exlporer intake (ported lower), TB and injectors. 277RWHP/330RWTQ (SAE). http://www.fastlanecars.com/ |
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