Pkrwud ???

RoadWarrior · 08-25-2002, 03:09 PM

Just out of curiousity i was wondering if you would know any info on the stock cam from a 65 T-Bird with the 390. Im trying to figure out the main things like the duration, overlap, lift and basically where the valves open in reference to tdc. If you could help i would greatly appreciate it. And i know its not a windsor but i dont know where else to look or who to ask.

PKRWUD · 08-25-2002, 06:22 PM

Seat angle: 45 degrees
Face angle: 45 degrees
Valve lift Intake: .408"
Valve lift Exhaust: .408
Valve spring pressure: 200lbs @ 1.42"
Valve spring installed height: 1.820"
Stem to guide clearance:
Intake: .001"-.0024"
Exhaust: .001"-.0024"
Valve clearance: zero
Intake valve opens at 26 degrees BTDC

Hope that helps.

Take care,
~Chris

RoadWarrior · 08-25-2002, 09:38 PM

Thanks that was perfect. I dont know how you know everything but thanks for sharing some knowledge with me.

93GTDIN · 08-25-2002, 10:29 PM

wow, he really does know everything

Bad89stang · 08-26-2002, 12:50 AM

Although I agree that Chris is very educated on mechanical issues, I would guess that he has a few service manuals laying around to get some info from. Then again, maybe he is Rainman only with grease under his fingernails.

PKRWUD · 08-26-2002, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bad89stang
Although I agree that Chris is very educated on mechanical issues, I would guess that he has a few service manuals laying around to get some info from. Then again, maybe he is Rainman only with grease under his fingernails.

If it didn't end in the letters B-O-N-E, I wouldn't even remember my phone number! Of course I have service manuals! Don't ever trust a mechanic that doesn't! Contrary to popular belief, all vehicle specs ARE NOT THE SAME! LOL. People will see me in passing and stop me and want to know what to torque the heads on a '63 Buick to, or how much clearance the rod bearings have in a 330 Olds. These are all numbers that often changed year to year, and model to model. I won't work on a vehicle if I don't have a manual for it, I'm not that stupid. I want to know where the factory made changes, and so forth, and not get sued for doing something improperly. After a while, the routines settle in, but you should never believe that you know all the specs. That's primarily what I use my manuals for now (torque specs, clearances, etc). The trick is to have the correct manuals! I have fairly good specs for domestics going back to 1940, and moderate import specs going back to 1972.

Take care,
~Chris

Mach 1 · 08-27-2002, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PKRWUD

The trick is to have the correct manuals! I have fairly good specs for domestics going back to 1940, and moderate import specs going back to 1972.

Take care,
~Chris

Lol..thats what I was wondering...manuals or not, how many 65 T-birds are you working on? I just assumed you would have manuals for the newer models only, but I guess you got them all! They are expensive, arent they?

PKRWUD · 08-27-2002, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mach 1

Lol..thats what I was wondering...manuals or not, how many 65 T-birds are you working on? I just assumed you would have manuals for the newer models only, but I guess you got them all! They are expensive, arent they?

I've probably spent $10k on books and manuals over the past 20+ years, which isn't much. I could spend 10x that much, and not even put a dent in what's out there. Remember, this is what I do for a living. Tools are my life, and manuals are tools. Not to mention, whether I like it or not, I need new ones every year. I try to save money by getting Mitchells when another shop replaces theirs, but sometimes I don't have a choice.

I had a customer a few years ago with a 1990 Subaru Legacy wagon, and it needed a new air struts up front, and some electrical gremlins found inside, and my generic Subaru books didn't cover it in depth enough, so I had to go to the dealer, and buy 2 of the 7 manuals they had for that specific year and model. $75 each! Worst part is I've not had another 1990 Subaru Legacy as a customer since, but when I do...

Take care,
~Chris

Mach 1 · 08-27-2002, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PKRWUD

I had a customer a few years ago with a 1990 Subaru Legacy wagon, and it needed a new air struts up front, and some electrical gremlins found inside, and my generic Subaru books didn't cover it in depth enough, so I had to go to the dealer, and buy 2 of the 7 manuals they had for that specific year and model. $75 each! Worst part is I've not had another 1990 Subaru Legacy as a customer since, but when I do...

Take care,
~Chris

My point exactly...too bad the "good" books arent less expensive.

later

PKRWUD · 08-27-2002, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mach 1

My point exactly...too bad the "good" books arent less expensive.

later

Ya know, something's just not right about a world in which the guys hanging around suspiciously on a dark street corner, late at night, are talking about knocking over a book store. LOL.

Take care,
~Chris

Mach 1 · 08-27-2002, 01:45 PM

Hey man, you gotta do what ya gotta do..lol..

PKRWUD · 08-27-2002, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mach 1
Hey man, you gotta do what ya gotta do..lol..

Well, I'd sell Girl Scout cookies before I ever did something like that. Maybe I should just raise my rates.

Take care,
~Chris

Mach 1 · 08-27-2002, 04:29 PM

Girl Scout cookies...mmmmmmmmmmm

jimberg · 08-27-2002, 05:20 PM

Chris, you didn't just throw the cost of the books into the customer's bill as "shop supplies" or "environmental charges"?

The Deuce · 08-27-2002, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PKRWUD

Well, I'd sell Girl Scout cookies before I ever did something like that. Maybe I should just raise my rates.

Take care,
~Chris

Dude, now I'm going to be jonesing for a cookie for weeks now. You suck man. What manuals do you recommend?

jimberg · 08-27-2002, 07:34 PM

Speaking of books, Mach 1, didn't you say you got the emissions manual or something? How is that as a reference?

Mach 1 · 08-27-2002, 09:15 PM

As far as qaulity books (not chiltons, Haynes, etc...) I have a shop manual for a 1990 Lincoln Mark VII. It is excellent. I dont have the Lincoln anymore, but it comes in very handy with the stang, as the drivetrain is the same with both cars, and the manual has excellent and in depth coverage of just about every system on the car.

I buy from www.helminc.com

They break it down into several manuals for each car model. The maintenance manual is the biggest book and costs the most, around $80.00.

Then they usually have more specialized information in separate books, such as a book for Emmisions systems, and a separate book for "electrical and vacuum troubleshooting". They are usually around $25.00 each.

For the mustang, I only have the "electrical and vacuum troubleshooting" book. It is basically just all the wiring diagrams of the car broken down into different systems, with color codes to identify and locate a particular wire anywhere on the car, which comes in handy. Might be more useful on an older car that has more electrical problems than a newer, more reliable model. i get more use out of the maintenance manual.

I guess "Mitchells" is the standard that shops use, like PKRWUDS, and they have time allotments for each job to use to charge customers the labor rate. I dont know where to buy these books, but they are more for garages than individuals.

PKRWUD · 08-27-2002, 10:21 PM

Helms sells factory service manuals to the public. There are usually 6 or 7 per set, per year, and a set may only cover one model car. They are the most detailed when purchased as a set, but they can actually be kind of cumbersome. Mitchell makes several series as well, but theirs are brokem up into domestics/imports and cars/trucks. Then, they have Chassis, wiring, accessories, emissions, diagnostics, etc. Many, many, many to have. They are my preference, but it would cost me $50k just to get a complete set for the last 30 years. There is also MOD (Mitchell On Demand), and Alldata, which both offer a service on CD-Roms. You pay them something like $1000 - $3000 per year (depending on the size of your shop), and then an aditional $149 a month. In exchange, you get CD's with info on every car made, as well as access to their online data bank. Too much for me.

I have several difrferent Mitchell's volumes, and dozens of Haynes and Chiltons, for various models. I have a few sets of factory service manuals, too. It's kinda funny, because I always need a book I don't have, and I rarely go into the ones I do have, excpet for specs.

Take care,
~Chris

Mach 1 · 08-28-2002, 05:17 AM

Yeah, the factory manual (helms) is EXTREMELY detailed, thats why I like it so much. If you need some info., its in there.
For example, it has coverage ranging from engine overhaul and bearing specs. and torques, to removing winshields and body trim, to checking the frame for proper alignment, everything with detailed instructions, special tools needed, part numbers for the tools, transmission overhaul, troubleshooting, A/C compressor overhaul, A/C system theory, interior..dashboard removal, etc...

Almost too much information for the average Joe, but if you plan on keeeping your car for a long time, and do your own work, it will pay for itself quickly.

PKRWUD · 08-28-2002, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mach 1
Almost too much information for the average Joe, but if you plan on keeeping your car for a long time, and do your own work, it will pay for itself quickly.

Absolutely!!!

I couldn't agree more!

Take care,
~Chris

08-25-2002, 03:09 PM	#1
RoadWarrior Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada Posts: 317	Pkrwud ??? Just out of curiousity i was wondering if you would know any info on the stock cam from a 65 T-Bird with the 390. Im trying to figure out the main things like the duration, overlap, lift and basically where the valves open in reference to tdc. If you could help i would greatly appreciate it. And i know its not a windsor but i dont know where else to look or who to ask. __________________ Fast Company

08-25-2002, 06:22 PM	#2
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Seat angle: 45 degrees Face angle: 45 degrees Valve lift Intake: .408" Valve lift Exhaust: .408 Valve spring pressure: 200lbs @ 1.42" Valve spring installed height: 1.820" Stem to guide clearance: Intake: .001"-.0024" Exhaust: .001"-.0024" Valve clearance: zero Intake valve opens at 26 degrees BTDC Hope that helps. Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

08-25-2002, 09:38 PM	#3
RoadWarrior Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada Posts: 317	Thanks that was perfect. I dont know how you know everything but thanks for sharing some knowledge with me. __________________ Fast Company

08-25-2002, 10:29 PM	#4
93GTDIN Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Live music capital of the world, TX Posts: 324	wow, he really does know everything __________________ 96 Cobra - a bit too stock. 14.0 @ 101

08-26-2002, 12:50 AM	#5
Bad89stang Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Ft. Worth, TX Posts: 456	Infinite wisdom Although I agree that Chris is very educated on mechanical issues, I would guess that he has a few service manuals laying around to get some info from. Then again, maybe he is Rainman only with grease under his fingernails. __________________ You're gonna need your seatbelt

08-27-2002, 01:45 PM	#11
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	Hey man, you gotta do what ya gotta do..lol.. __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

08-27-2002, 04:29 PM	#13
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	Girl Scout cookies...mmmmmmmmmmm __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

08-27-2002, 05:20 PM	#14
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Chris, you didn't just throw the cost of the books into the customer's bill as "shop supplies" or "environmental charges"? __________________ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

08-27-2002, 07:34 PM	#16
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Speaking of books, Mach 1, didn't you say you got the emissions manual or something? How is that as a reference? __________________ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

08-27-2002, 09:15 PM	#17
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	As far as qaulity books (not chiltons, Haynes, etc...) I have a shop manual for a 1990 Lincoln Mark VII. It is excellent. I dont have the Lincoln anymore, but it comes in very handy with the stang, as the drivetrain is the same with both cars, and the manual has excellent and in depth coverage of just about every system on the car. I buy from www.helminc.com They break it down into several manuals for each car model. The maintenance manual is the biggest book and costs the most, around $80.00. Then they usually have more specialized information in separate books, such as a book for Emmisions systems, and a separate book for "electrical and vacuum troubleshooting". They are usually around $25.00 each. For the mustang, I only have the "electrical and vacuum troubleshooting" book. It is basically just all the wiring diagrams of the car broken down into different systems, with color codes to identify and locate a particular wire anywhere on the car, which comes in handy. Might be more useful on an older car that has more electrical problems than a newer, more reliable model. i get more use out of the maintenance manual. I guess "Mitchells" is the standard that shops use, like PKRWUDS, and they have time allotments for each job to use to charge customers the labor rate. I dont know where to buy these books, but they are more for garages than individuals. __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

08-27-2002, 10:21 PM	#18
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Helms sells factory service manuals to the public. There are usually 6 or 7 per set, per year, and a set may only cover one model car. They are the most detailed when purchased as a set, but they can actually be kind of cumbersome. Mitchell makes several series as well, but theirs are brokem up into domestics/imports and cars/trucks. Then, they have Chassis, wiring, accessories, emissions, diagnostics, etc. Many, many, many to have. They are my preference, but it would cost me $50k just to get a complete set for the last 30 years. There is also MOD (Mitchell On Demand), and Alldata, which both offer a service on CD-Roms. You pay them something like $1000 - $3000 per year (depending on the size of your shop), and then an aditional $149 a month. In exchange, you get CD's with info on every car made, as well as access to their online data bank. Too much for me. I have several difrferent Mitchell's volumes, and dozens of Haynes and Chiltons, for various models. I have a few sets of factory service manuals, too. It's kinda funny, because I always need a book I don't have, and I rarely go into the ones I do have, excpet for specs. Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

08-28-2002, 05:17 AM	#19
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	Yeah, the factory manual (helms) is EXTREMELY detailed, thats why I like it so much. If you need some info., its in there. For example, it has coverage ranging from engine overhaul and bearing specs. and torques, to removing winshields and body trim, to checking the frame for proper alignment, everything with detailed instructions, special tools needed, part numbers for the tools, transmission overhaul, troubleshooting, A/C compressor overhaul, A/C system theory, interior..dashboard removal, etc... Almost too much information for the average Joe, but if you plan on keeeping your car for a long time, and do your own work, it will pay for itself quickly. __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

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