Nothing Helps! Getting frustrated

stanger9219 · 10-19-2003, 11:07 PM

Alright, i have these problem with my car that ive spent about $600 to fix and it still does it. It doesnt want to idle and it bogs, surges, and backfires in the intake. Ive already changed the EGR valve, the IAC, the ignition coil, sparks plugs and wires, fuel filter, distributer cap, cleaned the MAF+TB+ intake manifold, and there arent any vacuum leaks. ANY other suggestions would help me a lot. Im lost at this point.

richd · 10-19-2003, 11:29 PM

Out of curiosity, did you fully disassemble the TB when you cleaned it (including plate removal) and if so, did you reset the base idle screw and reset the computer? What about the base timing?

Not sure, but if all else fails maybe the TFI or pickup?

To reset base idle, back the idle screw out. Insert 0.010 feeler between screw and stop and turn screw until screw feeler and stop are touching. Pull out feeler and turn screw an additional 1.5 turns. Disconnect (-) battery for 10 minutes, reconnect, start and let idle for a few minutes with accessories off then a few more with all accessories on.

Sorry if I told you stuff you already knew. Hope this helps.

Rich D.

stang_racer20 · 10-19-2003, 11:54 PM

u did not say if you checked the ignition timing, which is the number one basic cause of backfiring and lumpy idle! recheck plug gap for .050"ish. check the maf wiring as far as you can see it and if you havent already, clean the maf contacts in the clip.

when did the problems start, what did u do or did it just happen? (any mods)

stanger9219 · 10-20-2003, 12:03 AM

We just bumped up the timing until it spark knocked and lowered it until it stopped. I just got in it to go to work last winter ( this is the first time ive had the $ to fix it being a college student and all)and it started running like crap. It progressively got worse and worse. The new plugs and wires helped a lot but it still does it. Do you think it could be the pick up coil? or maybe the fuel pump? Im gettin paid on Thursday so im ready to try something else. Thanks for the advice so far

stang_racer20 · 10-20-2003, 01:00 AM

i doubt its the fuel pump but if you wanna replace it anyways for performance reasons, why not!

from what you described, u might have a bad camshaft. when a camshaft gets really worn, its not opening and closing valves correctly which can cause backfiring, powerloss, bad idle and improper a/f mixes.

it could also be worn or loose exhaust side valve springs which causes backfiring through intake!

u say your ready to spend some more money ha. how bout a decent cam and valve spring swap!

Have you scanned for engine codes yet to see what you can find?

or:
Fuel Pressure?
Clogged Catalytic Converters/O2 sensors?

stanger9219 · 10-20-2003, 01:16 AM

yea the diagnostics only told me the things that i changed. I wasnt planning on buying a cam until i got new heads in Feb. (tax return time) But thats something that i didnt think about. The engine was "supposedly" rebuilt right before i bought it. Feul pressure is fine and the cats are about 3 weeks old...just put a new x-pipe on.

rwhite65 · 10-20-2003, 01:50 AM

not sure if you said the car sat 4 a while...but if it ran fine...and this problem suddenly occured, think small, work your way up. Backfires in my experiences have generally been attributed to electrical problems with the ignition.
ryan

302 LX Eric · 10-20-2003, 10:42 AM

I'd put a timing light on it and see where you're at there first.

Second, you may want to try to clean the 10-pin connectors located just behind the upper intake (a black one and a white one) and then putting some dielectrical grease on the contacts. I've seen several posts about this fixing surging and high idles. It's worth a try and doesn't cost much.

E

stanger9219 · 10-20-2003, 01:32 PM

the timing is fine, i guess ill try a new pick up coil next and see where that takes me. Does anyone know the best cam to by? im going to get a Trick flow upper/lower intake manifold. Twisted wedge heads are going to come later. And how much would the cam cost???

stang_racer20 · 10-20-2003, 01:47 PM

what type of cam are you looking for, its really up to you. you just dont want a big cam right now at all!

stanger9219 · 10-20-2003, 08:22 PM

its not the cam because it doesnt do it all of the time...im gonna try the pick up coil....and ive been told that it might be some thermometer behind the MAF.

86GT · 10-21-2003, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 302 LX Eric
Second, you may want to try to clean the 10-pin connectors located just behind the upper intake (a black one and a white one) and then putting some dielectrical grease on the contacts. I've seen several posts about this fixing surging and high idles. It's worth a try and doesn't cost much.

This may just cure it!!! I worked for me before I went to a carb and now have a smooth idle with any cam I want. I'd clean the 10pin connectors, if you do an intake/cam swap, it'll be easier to get to them.

Also, check the wiring in general for fraying or bad connections/grounds. Usually if the car is running, most people overlook it, and sometimes that's the culprit. Look at the freebie stuff first then get into the parts. Hope that helps.

tmoss · 10-21-2003, 11:54 AM

I agree with the others - clean the 10-pin connector and pry the male connectors apart a little for better contact. If that doesn't do it replace the pickup coil and TFI together.

bigred90gt · 10-21-2003, 12:57 PM

I am gonna have to jump on the bandwagon and say I think its the pickup (stator) coil. When you pull the dist to check the pickup, spin the shaft. if the armeture hits the pickup, you need to replace the dist. That is what happened to mine. Though your symptoms dont seem as dramatic as what I was experiencing, they are similar. Maybe you'll be lucky and not have to replace the whole dist. If so, sound like a good time for a MSD dist. Good luck and keep us posted.

mustangcobra_91 · 10-21-2003, 02:21 PM

have you checked your mapping sensor. Its located directly behind the upper intake on the firewall. You might check it.. just trying to help

stanger9219 · 10-21-2003, 03:09 PM

Thanks a lot guys. Ill be sure to check all of your suggestions when i get a chance and keep you posted on the results. thanks again

SmokinStangGT · 10-22-2003, 02:00 AM

i had that probem and it was the TFI

mustangcobra_91 · 10-22-2003, 01:58 PM

just out of curiosity did you take the spout thing out when you set the timing??

10-19-2003, 11:07 PM	#1
stanger9219 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: st. louis, MO Posts: 197	Nothing Helps! Getting frustrated Alright, i have these problem with my car that ive spent about $600 to fix and it still does it. It doesnt want to idle and it bogs, surges, and backfires in the intake. Ive already changed the EGR valve, the IAC, the ignition coil, sparks plugs and wires, fuel filter, distributer cap, cleaned the MAF+TB+ intake manifold, and there arent any vacuum leaks. ANY other suggestions would help me a lot. Im lost at this point. __________________ 98 Cobra, CAI, Flowmasters, o/r h-pipe. 4.10s, Hurst shifter.

10-19-2003, 11:54 PM	#3
stang_racer20 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 348	u did not say if you checked the ignition timing, which is the number one basic cause of backfiring and lumpy idle! recheck plug gap for .050"ish. check the maf wiring as far as you can see it and if you havent already, clean the maf contacts in the clip. when did the problems start, what did u do or did it just happen? (any mods) __________________ 92 Mustang GT, 347 Stroker(Forged Steel Crank/Rods-Balanced, Forged Aluminum Dished Pistons), Trick Flow Track Heat Intake, Trick Flow Twisted Wedge Heads w/ Stage 3 port/polish, 80mm C&L MAF, FMS 30# Inj., BBK AFPR, Trick Flow Stage 2 Cam, Trick Flow 1.6R Rockers, BBK E.L. Headers, Flowmaster Cat-Back, MAC CAI, FMS Pulleys, Griffin Alum. Radiator, MSD Pro-Billet Distributor; AOD, Dynamic 3300 Lockup Converter, B & M Super Cooler, B&M Ratchet Shifter; 3:73 gears.

10-20-2003, 12:03 AM	#4
stanger9219 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: st. louis, MO Posts: 197	We just bumped up the timing until it spark knocked and lowered it until it stopped. I just got in it to go to work last winter ( this is the first time ive had the $ to fix it being a college student and all)and it started running like crap. It progressively got worse and worse. The new plugs and wires helped a lot but it still does it. Do you think it could be the pick up coil? or maybe the fuel pump? Im gettin paid on Thursday so im ready to try something else. Thanks for the advice so far __________________ 98 Cobra, CAI, Flowmasters, o/r h-pipe. 4.10s, Hurst shifter.

10-20-2003, 01:00 AM	#5
stang_racer20 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 348	i doubt its the fuel pump but if you wanna replace it anyways for performance reasons, why not! from what you described, u might have a bad camshaft. when a camshaft gets really worn, its not opening and closing valves correctly which can cause backfiring, powerloss, bad idle and improper a/f mixes. it could also be worn or loose exhaust side valve springs which causes backfiring through intake! u say your ready to spend some more money ha. how bout a decent cam and valve spring swap! Have you scanned for engine codes yet to see what you can find? or: Fuel Pressure? Clogged Catalytic Converters/O2 sensors? __________________ 92 Mustang GT, 347 Stroker(Forged Steel Crank/Rods-Balanced, Forged Aluminum Dished Pistons), Trick Flow Track Heat Intake, Trick Flow Twisted Wedge Heads w/ Stage 3 port/polish, 80mm C&L MAF, FMS 30# Inj., BBK AFPR, Trick Flow Stage 2 Cam, Trick Flow 1.6R Rockers, BBK E.L. Headers, Flowmaster Cat-Back, MAC CAI, FMS Pulleys, Griffin Alum. Radiator, MSD Pro-Billet Distributor; AOD, Dynamic 3300 Lockup Converter, B & M Super Cooler, B&M Ratchet Shifter; 3:73 gears.

10-20-2003, 01:16 AM	#6
stanger9219 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: st. louis, MO Posts: 197	yea the diagnostics only told me the things that i changed. I wasnt planning on buying a cam until i got new heads in Feb. (tax return time) But thats something that i didnt think about. The engine was "supposedly" rebuilt right before i bought it. Feul pressure is fine and the cats are about 3 weeks old...just put a new x-pipe on. __________________ 98 Cobra, CAI, Flowmasters, o/r h-pipe. 4.10s, Hurst shifter.

10-19-2003, 11:29 PM	#2
richd Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Edison, NJ, USA Posts: 125	Out of curiosity, did you fully disassemble the TB when you cleaned it (including plate removal) and if so, did you reset the base idle screw and reset the computer? What about the base timing? Not sure, but if all else fails maybe the TFI or pickup? To reset base idle, back the idle screw out. Insert 0.010 feeler between screw and stop and turn screw until screw feeler and stop are touching. Pull out feeler and turn screw an additional 1.5 turns. Disconnect (-) battery for 10 minutes, reconnect, start and let idle for a few minutes with accessories off then a few more with all accessories on. Sorry if I told you stuff you already knew. Hope this helps. Rich D.

10-20-2003, 01:50 AM	#7
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	not sure if you said the car sat 4 a while...but if it ran fine...and this problem suddenly occured, think small, work your way up. Backfires in my experiences have generally been attributed to electrical problems with the ignition. ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

10-20-2003, 10:42 AM	#8
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	I'd put a timing light on it and see where you're at there first. Second, you may want to try to clean the 10-pin connectors located just behind the upper intake (a black one and a white one) and then putting some dielectrical grease on the contacts. I've seen several posts about this fixing surging and high idles. It's worth a try and doesn't cost much. E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

10-20-2003, 01:32 PM	#9
stanger9219 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: st. louis, MO Posts: 197	the timing is fine, i guess ill try a new pick up coil next and see where that takes me. Does anyone know the best cam to by? im going to get a Trick flow upper/lower intake manifold. Twisted wedge heads are going to come later. And how much would the cam cost??? __________________ 98 Cobra, CAI, Flowmasters, o/r h-pipe. 4.10s, Hurst shifter.

10-20-2003, 01:47 PM	#10
stang_racer20 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 348	what type of cam are you looking for, its really up to you. you just dont want a big cam right now at all! __________________ 92 Mustang GT, 347 Stroker(Forged Steel Crank/Rods-Balanced, Forged Aluminum Dished Pistons), Trick Flow Track Heat Intake, Trick Flow Twisted Wedge Heads w/ Stage 3 port/polish, 80mm C&L MAF, FMS 30# Inj., BBK AFPR, Trick Flow Stage 2 Cam, Trick Flow 1.6R Rockers, BBK E.L. Headers, Flowmaster Cat-Back, MAC CAI, FMS Pulleys, Griffin Alum. Radiator, MSD Pro-Billet Distributor; AOD, Dynamic 3300 Lockup Converter, B & M Super Cooler, B&M Ratchet Shifter; 3:73 gears.

10-20-2003, 08:22 PM	#11
stanger9219 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: st. louis, MO Posts: 197	its not the cam because it doesnt do it all of the time...im gonna try the pick up coil....and ive been told that it might be some thermometer behind the MAF. __________________ 98 Cobra, CAI, Flowmasters, o/r h-pipe. 4.10s, Hurst shifter.

10-21-2003, 11:54 AM	#13
tmoss Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 634	I agree with the others - clean the 10-pin connector and pry the male connectors apart a little for better contact. If that doesn't do it replace the pickup coil and TFI together. __________________ Tom (Torque) Moss 88Gt 5spd Vert, FLowmaster Catbacks, stock cam advanced 4° @ 108.5° ICL, NMRA prepped GT40P heads 1.85/1.55 valves and 1.7 rockers, MAC P headers Jet-Hot coated, 97 Exlporer intake (ported lower), TB and injectors. 277RWHP/330RWTQ (SAE). http://www.fastlanecars.com/

10-21-2003, 12:57 PM	#14
bigred90gt 2 Stangs in the Stable Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Baytown, TX Posts: 1,209	I am gonna have to jump on the bandwagon and say I think its the pickup (stator) coil. When you pull the dist to check the pickup, spin the shaft. if the armeture hits the pickup, you need to replace the dist. That is what happened to mine. Though your symptoms dont seem as dramatic as what I was experiencing, they are similar. Maybe you'll be lucky and not have to replace the whole dist. If so, sound like a good time for a MSD dist. Good luck and keep us posted. __________________ '90 GT Under construction Best E.T. = Fast @ High Speeds - OK So I Lie. So What!!! 04 F-150 STX 4.2L 5 spd Rice Haters Club Member #128

10-21-2003, 02:21 PM	#15
mustangcobra_91 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: amarillo tx united states Posts: 10	have you checked your mapping sensor. Its located directly behind the upper intake on the firewall. You might check it.. just trying to help

10-21-2003, 03:09 PM	#16
stanger9219 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: st. louis, MO Posts: 197	Thanks a lot guys. Ill be sure to check all of your suggestions when i get a chance and keep you posted on the results. thanks again __________________ 98 Cobra, CAI, Flowmasters, o/r h-pipe. 4.10s, Hurst shifter.

10-22-2003, 02:00 AM	#17
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	i had that probem and it was the TFI __________________ 89' GT with 5spd Hurst short throw, Keith Black 12:1 comp. pistons, Sealed Power drag racing rings, Fms F303 Cam, Ported and polished upper and lower intake with Ported E7TE heads that contain comp. cam double coiled springs with titainum locks and steel retainers, Fel-Pro Head Gaskets, 9mm ford racing wires, BBK chrome unequal shortys, Power Throttle bodies 70mm, Edlebrock 70mm EGR plate, 15inch K&N, Bassani X-pipe, Flowmaster 40 series, Eibach 1 1/2 lowering springs, Cobra R rims 17X9 with p235 on front and p275 on rear with Falken Zeix tires-RUNNING!

10-22-2003, 01:58 PM	#18
mustangcobra_91 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: amarillo tx united states Posts: 10	just out of curiosity did you take the spout thing out when you set the timing??

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