HELP: problems with heads!

SmokinStangGT · 06-01-2003, 01:37 AM

OK a big problem... i took my car to the shop and it ran good and strong up to about 4000 RPM then about a lil over that i lost a valve and it was like 5 mins after i picked up the car.... ok they replaced the head gasket on that side and then tourqed the rockers down..... ok this is what they said happend... they said i floted a valve and then it made the retainer shatter and it sent the retainer thoguh the valve cover and the valve was not in the cylinder all the way, so it didnt drop into the cylinder and the piston is fine. NOW could the tourqe on the rockers did this? or could the heads not be able to hold this... it only happend at 4000 rpm and it just let go... should i buy new heads or get these rebuilt or just replace that valve? any commets or suggestions? _Thanks I just spend a **** load of money on this and noe the work they just did is no good so i wasted alot of money!

Jeff Chambers · 06-01-2003, 07:08 AM

Believe it or not, but the shop may not be at fault. I've seen a number of times where a valve will sieze in a cast iron head. The valve siezes in the cast iron guide, hanging the valve and causing all sorts of problems. If the valve didn't hang, I've also seen retainers split for no apparent reason. Bottom line, the shop may not be at fault at all....could have just been coincidence that bit ya.

SmokinStangGT · 06-01-2003, 11:25 AM

now i found out that the valve springs compress at .444 and the most they can compress it .479 so the cam i have wants to compress the springs at .501 an i think that is the reason that the retainer and lock let go becuase it had to much pressure on the spring.... could this be true? should i buy the comp cam springs and new reatiner as well as locks? -thanks

HotRoddin · 06-01-2003, 06:16 PM

Absolutely ! Thats coil bind ... your cam is trying to compress the springs more than they can compress, (they compress until the coils touch and can go no further), at that point something has to give ... that it was the lock or retainer isn't surprising. If its coil bind and thats what it sounds like, then you have to get springs, retainers, locks etc that are compatible with the lift of your cam !! Not only had you better check everything up top in the valve train, you better check your cam as well, because coil bind can easily gall or round off a cam lobe. Also make sure it was valve spring coil bind and not valve to piston clearance problems, even though your symptoms are more consistant with coil bind.
Who picked out the spring, retainer, lock, valve, cam combo?? If it was you, you learned a valuable lesson ... if it was the shop, they should have known better and should at least share some of the expense with you.

SmokinStangGT · 06-02-2003, 11:53 AM

That is what i figured, and it was the shop that did it, but what springs should i buy for a comp. cam .501 lift and i wanted to go with comp cams springs? and comp. cam retainers and locks?- thanks alot!!

Coupe50h · 06-02-2003, 01:12 PM

I am running the stock springs that came on my gt-40's, the machine shop said they tested good, and could handle my e-cam and 1.7's .526 lift, so far they held up good, i do however have hi performance retainers and locks.

my car loses power at 5400 rpm's, i blame that on the stock intake though.

SmokinStangGT · 06-02-2003, 05:33 PM

yea mine was falling at about 4000 and i think it was becuase the cam tried to hit its powerband and the springs didnt allow the vavles to flow so it cut the motor off of power, but it was still nasty fast but i think that is why it cut out at 4000... could it be? and what type of comp. cam springs, retainers, and locks are good for my lift? Thanks!

HotRoddin · 06-03-2003, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SmokinStangGT
That is what i figured, and it was the shop that did it, but what springs should i buy for a comp. cam .501 lift and i wanted to go with comp cams springs? and comp. cam retainers and locks?- thanks alot!!

800 999-0853 Thats Comp Cams help line ... tell em what you have, they'll tell you what you need.... its free, even the phone call is free

06-01-2003, 01:37 AM	#1
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	HELP: problems with heads! OK a big problem... i took my car to the shop and it ran good and strong up to about 4000 RPM then about a lil over that i lost a valve and it was like 5 mins after i picked up the car.... ok they replaced the head gasket on that side and then tourqed the rockers down..... ok this is what they said happend... they said i floted a valve and then it made the retainer shatter and it sent the retainer thoguh the valve cover and the valve was not in the cylinder all the way, so it didnt drop into the cylinder and the piston is fine. NOW could the tourqe on the rockers did this? or could the heads not be able to hold this... it only happend at 4000 rpm and it just let go... should i buy new heads or get these rebuilt or just replace that valve? any commets or suggestions? _Thanks I just spend a **** load of money on this and noe the work they just did is no good so i wasted alot of money! __________________ 89' GT with 5spd Hurst short throw, Keith Black 12:1 comp. pistons, Sealed Power drag racing rings, Fms F303 Cam, Ported and polished upper and lower intake with Ported E7TE heads that contain comp. cam double coiled springs with titainum locks and steel retainers, Fel-Pro Head Gaskets, 9mm ford racing wires, BBK chrome unequal shortys, Power Throttle bodies 70mm, Edlebrock 70mm EGR plate, 15inch K&N, Bassani X-pipe, Flowmaster 40 series, Eibach 1 1/2 lowering springs, Cobra R rims 17X9 with p235 on front and p275 on rear with Falken Zeix tires-RUNNING!

06-01-2003, 07:08 AM	#2
Jeff Chambers Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milan, OH Posts: 2,699	Believe it or not, but the shop may not be at fault. I've seen a number of times where a valve will sieze in a cast iron head. The valve siezes in the cast iron guide, hanging the valve and causing all sorts of problems. If the valve didn't hang, I've also seen retainers split for no apparent reason. Bottom line, the shop may not be at fault at all....could have just been coincidence that bit ya. __________________ Jeff Chambers 1990 Mustang GT 10.032 Seconds / 137.5 MPH 14-time Street Warrior World Record Setter CRT Performance 2001 Tropic Green Mustang GT - 12.181 / 113.2 MPH 2002 Ford F-250 Crew Cab 7.3l Power Stroke - 17.41@77.2 "There's nothing boring about a small block automatic shifting gears at 9400 rpm!"

06-01-2003, 11:25 AM	#3
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	now i found out that the valve springs compress at .444 and the most they can compress it .479 so the cam i have wants to compress the springs at .501 an i think that is the reason that the retainer and lock let go becuase it had to much pressure on the spring.... could this be true? should i buy the comp cam springs and new reatiner as well as locks? -thanks __________________ 89' GT with 5spd Hurst short throw, Keith Black 12:1 comp. pistons, Sealed Power drag racing rings, Fms F303 Cam, Ported and polished upper and lower intake with Ported E7TE heads that contain comp. cam double coiled springs with titainum locks and steel retainers, Fel-Pro Head Gaskets, 9mm ford racing wires, BBK chrome unequal shortys, Power Throttle bodies 70mm, Edlebrock 70mm EGR plate, 15inch K&N, Bassani X-pipe, Flowmaster 40 series, Eibach 1 1/2 lowering springs, Cobra R rims 17X9 with p235 on front and p275 on rear with Falken Zeix tires-RUNNING!

06-02-2003, 11:53 AM	#5
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	That is what i figured, and it was the shop that did it, but what springs should i buy for a comp. cam .501 lift and i wanted to go with comp cams springs? and comp. cam retainers and locks?- thanks alot!! __________________ 89' GT with 5spd Hurst short throw, Keith Black 12:1 comp. pistons, Sealed Power drag racing rings, Fms F303 Cam, Ported and polished upper and lower intake with Ported E7TE heads that contain comp. cam double coiled springs with titainum locks and steel retainers, Fel-Pro Head Gaskets, 9mm ford racing wires, BBK chrome unequal shortys, Power Throttle bodies 70mm, Edlebrock 70mm EGR plate, 15inch K&N, Bassani X-pipe, Flowmaster 40 series, Eibach 1 1/2 lowering springs, Cobra R rims 17X9 with p235 on front and p275 on rear with Falken Zeix tires-RUNNING!

06-02-2003, 01:12 PM	#6
Coupe50h Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: SanAntonio, Tx Posts: 957	I am running the stock springs that came on my gt-40's, the machine shop said they tested good, and could handle my e-cam and 1.7's .526 lift, so far they held up good, i do however have hi performance retainers and locks. my car loses power at 5400 rpm's, i blame that on the stock intake though. __________________ X-Texas highway patrol ssp 1990 coupe - exploder Gt-40 iron heads, Explorer intake, 19 lber's. E-cam. crane 1.7 rollers. 190fp. 75mm maf. 65mm tb, tubular subframe connectors, mac cai, Asp crank pulley, T-5, king cobra clutch, flowtech 1-5/8 unequals, mac X-pipe Frpp driveshaft, lakewood Lca's. race weight 3,160 12.69 @ 107.35, 1.71 60' 26x8.5 drag's 3.90 gear 13.20 @ 106.91 - 235/60/15 firestones 2.3 60' 3.27 gear

06-01-2003, 06:16 PM	#4
HotRoddin cranky old man Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Longview Texas Posts: 683	Absolutely ! Thats coil bind ... your cam is trying to compress the springs more than they can compress, (they compress until the coils touch and can go no further), at that point something has to give ... that it was the lock or retainer isn't surprising. If its coil bind and thats what it sounds like, then you have to get springs, retainers, locks etc that are compatible with the lift of your cam !! Not only had you better check everything up top in the valve train, you better check your cam as well, because coil bind can easily gall or round off a cam lobe. Also make sure it was valve spring coil bind and not valve to piston clearance problems, even though your symptoms are more consistant with coil bind. Who picked out the spring, retainer, lock, valve, cam combo?? If it was you, you learned a valuable lesson ... if it was the shop, they should have known better and should at least share some of the expense with you.

06-02-2003, 05:33 PM	#7
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	yea mine was falling at about 4000 and i think it was becuase the cam tried to hit its powerband and the springs didnt allow the vavles to flow so it cut the motor off of power, but it was still nasty fast but i think that is why it cut out at 4000... could it be? and what type of comp. cam springs, retainers, and locks are good for my lift? Thanks! __________________ 89' GT with 5spd Hurst short throw, Keith Black 12:1 comp. pistons, Sealed Power drag racing rings, Fms F303 Cam, Ported and polished upper and lower intake with Ported E7TE heads that contain comp. cam double coiled springs with titainum locks and steel retainers, Fel-Pro Head Gaskets, 9mm ford racing wires, BBK chrome unequal shortys, Power Throttle bodies 70mm, Edlebrock 70mm EGR plate, 15inch K&N, Bassani X-pipe, Flowmaster 40 series, Eibach 1 1/2 lowering springs, Cobra R rims 17X9 with p235 on front and p275 on rear with Falken Zeix tires-RUNNING!

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