Old cars that kick new car and FI a$$

MercDude · 01-11-2001, 03:12 PM

Ok before i begin... i just want to say that you FI guys are such a huge opposition that we carbed guys have to stick together. you guys run awesome cause you have 3 computers/FI/new technology... etc, etc.

Now you guys do haul, but what about us guys who put ALL of our sh!t together? Our car runs only as good as we tune it. I'm not sure how many guys here run old cars with carbs, but i do know that there are a few and i think this will be a contraversial subject.

Plain and Simple; you can't beat old tech. It's easy to build, simple to maintain, lasts forever, and is just bada$$! I mean, you new car fanatics just drive your cars. My car is running about mid 13's without chassis/suspension mods or slicks. Not too shabby for a 38 year old car? I just love old cars and they are so cool and they just get the girls faster than anything else around.

I continually whoop new car a$$ (although there are faster ones out there). I think everyone just believes that their little 5.0 GT 5spd can take my merc... they just guess wrong. My car is a little bit bigger then a '65 stang, but it's lighter then a fox body GT. I love to see those smarta$$'s in their $30K cars get smoked by my restomod. No better feeling in the world! Can anyone relate? I especially loved the look on the SS owner's face that i recently whooped! You want brutally fast power? get a falcon/mustang/fairlane... those cars will put a smile from ear to ear on you!

------------------
'63 Merc Meteor hardtop, warm 302, C4 auto, 2.25" Flowmaster Exhaust,
'65 289 heads - ported/chevy valves, performer cam, edelbrock f4a intake, full length hookers, 600 holley, roller rockers, k'n, 10.5:1 hyperutetic pistons... mid 13's hoping to reach into 12's

90dpscoupe · 01-11-2001, 03:24 PM

I used to have a 78 4spd T/A, i loved it, it was my first fast car, but the quadrajunk carb it had required tuning or adjusting every time i ran it hard, or else it would bogg or die? now i never got a chance to replace it with a holley, which i know would have stayed adjusted better,

i finally learned a good lesson about efi mustangs, they are fast, reliable, and you can run the sh1t out of em, and it still idles like new

, but you resto hot rod guys keep it up, i mean these old cars started it all, the newer cars just evolved (thank god) i cant afford 5 miles to the gallon (exaggeration)....he..he

------------------
90 lx coupe: Mac cold air fenderwell, accel supercoil,advncd ignition,3-core radiatr, FMS alum D/S, Black magic fan, 3.27grs, 3chbr flows.
Best time: 14.20(on 225/60/15 firehawks)
Best mph 97.80
Best 60' 2.1
next mods: subframes, 3.73's

MercDude · 01-11-2001, 03:34 PM

yeah to tell you the truth, i really respect FI cars... but i enjoy the simplicity of carbs. oh... my car gets about 16mpg/city 18mpg/highway = no overdrive

sedanman · 01-11-2001, 04:00 PM

well I enjoy looking at old cars and respect the way they ran with what they had, you have to look at where we are today FI is defienetly where it is at I mean look how many people on this site have low 13 cars or faster that drive them every day! I mean carb cars are such a bear because you have to tune them every time the weather changes to get the best results, FI cars do it all there selves. I think I have been beaten once on the street by a carbed car though many have tried. Its just FI cars run consistently better than carbed cars.

spinemup · 01-11-2001, 04:15 PM

i like old cars..... they look nice while i'm staring at them in my rear view. i run low 13's and don't affect the environment as much as your inefficient pos does. i'll out handle any ol' rust bucket too. mister bias ply 14" mag wheels

how do you like that for contreversey?
(where's imouer)

------------------

THE MIGHTY NOTCH

Tom351 · 01-11-2001, 04:22 PM

I prefer the carb, but my car only drives for fun. If it was my only transportation, I would want EFI. Injection is also much easier to hook a supercharger to.

Carbs kick *** and I love to beat 5.0's, but some of them (mostly boost or No2)love to roast my a$$.

------------------
67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint
351W ,Trick Flow Aluminum Heads, Edelbrock TorkerII, Comp. Cam, Performance Automatic C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars.

My 351W Fastback

01-11-2001, 04:58 PM

I can tune carbs just as good as the next guy. Yeah I drive a new EFI car, but I grew up tuning carbed cars. My dad has a 63 1/2 Galaxie with a 427. This thing has dual quads and it has a solid lifter cam. I can tune the carbs, I can set the points, and I can set the hot and cold valve lash (which on a solid lifter motor could be weekly depending on how much you drive it).

Carbed cars are great, but I wouldn't trade EFI for the world, in terms of driveability. I turn the key and it starts. You can get a carb to do this, but I don't have the time to tune it to the weather. EFI automatically adjusts to weather changes.

Carbs are good for high performance, but in my mind and for me EFI is where it is at. All around, EFI performs better than a carb.

------------------
88GT stock shortblock, ported GT-40 iron heads, Edlebrock Performer intake, 24# inj, Pro-M 75mm Bullet MAM, 3.73, hurst short throw, F-303, electric fan, alum rad, FMS HD clutch, R134a ac conversion, 70mm TB , and some other stuff I probably forgot, best run so far on ET streets is 13.02@106 with a 1.87 60ft Only been to the track once still alot more tuning to do and need more driving experience.(Full body weight GT, full tank of gas, and sway bars connected, gonna disconnect sway bars and dip

[This message has been edited by 88GT5.013.02 (edited 01-11-2001).]

[This message has been edited by 88GT5.013.02 (edited 01-11-2001).]

MiracleMax · 01-11-2001, 05:43 PM

Thats why I luv you MercDude, You and Unit are like twins. Old sh1t is just that, old sh1t. Every dog has it's day and the 60's are over. Granted anything can be made to go fast, but come back in oh, say 3 or 4 years when a wimpy 4.6 mod motor spanks your butt (hurts to write that but the ol' 5.0 is riding at its peak. and the future belongs to that lump of lard called the mod motor). IMO carb or EFI are two ways to skin the same cat. BTW how much does your car weigh? Mine tipped the scales at 3200 lbs. (factory) but now its on a diet and getting some more muscle. Now for the reason 5.0 EFI folks are legion. It's the car that brought back the good ol' days of going fast cheap. Not everbody has or had the chance to go fast in old iron so for most, fuel-injected 5.0's are the standard

Skyman · 01-12-2001, 05:37 AM

Have you run your car at the track yet Merc? Or are you just guessin at mid 13's or what?

You have any tips for me? We have a nice new 5.0 302 setup in my cousin 68 mustang, and it just doesnt perform like it should.

Althought it does get good mileage, and quite an increase since we did a full MSD ignition on it.

He's running a holley 600cfm carb too, we were thinkin its just way too small. Its a brand new stock 5.0L block, so 9:1 comp. FMS Aluminum Y heads 1.94 valve. E-303 Cam, and Edelbrock performer 289 intake, w/ a box stock holley 600 on top. MSD 6a, msd wires and blaster 3 coil. Stock C4 and 3:1 gears.

Sky

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406-
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shortys, Offroad-H, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 15degrees timing, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb inj, Crank pulley, MSD6A, Alum driveshaft.

On its way: Paxton Sn-89 with dyno tuning and long tubes.

Just added: B&M Ripper, Weldin Subframes, & Turn downs!
13.2@106mph

dirtyGT · 01-12-2001, 06:56 AM

I like the driveablty of efi alot better but i've been around my share of carbed cars my dad had a 69z28 4speed with a 302 also a roadrunner (not sure what year) and a 69 chevelle ss 396 so i've been around them and helped him some i know there was no fords listed but what can i say i guess i'm just the thorn in his back.Long live all american iron!

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86GT-MACcatback-89heads,intake,TB,KENNYBROWNsubs,3.73's,HURST shifter,much more to come

Drag4money · 01-12-2001, 07:01 PM

Okay, I'm gonna get in the Sh*t for this one, but here goes...

Having both the Antique Muscle car and a newer EFI Mustang leads me to these conclusions...

On a hot summer night, or at a cruise drive in show, nothing is better than a big block rumbling in that's in pristine condition with the old muscle car look...

That being said,, as a daily driver, nothing is better than no pumping the gas in the morning, great heat, and cracking thru the back roads at 50mph because the handling is supurb,,,The seats have more support, The 4 wheel discs stop great, the thing is glued to the road with enormous sway bars and nice rubber, less body roll too,,,

besides, would you drive your classic in the snow or the rain???

I wouldn't, that's why I bought my SN94.
SO I get to have some power in all weather and driving conditions...

Not a bad car for my first time modding and owning a Ford....

Just my .02

MrWesson22 · 01-12-2001, 09:02 PM

Skyman,
Put some GEAR in that thing!! It's amazing what a gear change will do to the whole attitude of a car.. The 600 really isn't too small for your combo as long as it's tuned/jetted right. It's better to have too little carb than too much.

MercDude,
I wish I could get that kinda gas mileage! The old motor averaged 11.5 to the tank, and of course I had to run 93 octane. The new one will probably get less since it's a 4V and the old one was a 2V motor (edel intake/holley 600).

------------------
Neal

69 stang
351C/4sp

MrWesson22 · 01-12-2001, 09:43 PM

Oh, OLD CARS, solid flat tappet cams, and carburators ROCK!! (especially for nitrous!).... What kind of true car guy whines about having to adjust valve lash or tune a carb? Whatever... that's just a good excuse to do what I enjoy doing!

------------------
Neal

69 stang
351C/4sp

MercDude · 01-12-2001, 11:20 PM

Well... my car weighs about 3200lbs also. Now, spinemup, i happen to have MANY MANY improvements to my suspension... one being sway bars, two being shocks, three being springs, four monte carlo bar, and five i have 15's on 50 series tires measuring 225front 245back... that's nearly the size of 275/45/16's. Carbs have NOTHING to do with reliability to start in mornings (well if you tune it first

). Mostly that has to do with the type of distributor/ignition you own... like i run an unilite mallory dist with full mallory ignition (coil, hyfire, wires)and my car fires up no prob every morning.

Skyman, i haven't been there lately... so yes i am guessing BUT i have raced a slightly moded '00 M6 SS and i KILLED him off the line by about 5 cars... and we pulled it out until about 90 then we shut it down... he started to pull on me like a raped ape at about 70 (didn't pull all the way through second

) but that's basically how i'm judging my et currently. My advice to you is to get a MSD dist (helps A TON!) and to get a stealth intake (or performer RPM)... also put some nice long tube headers on with 3 chamber flows. The gears are REALLY killing you with an auto and that cam/heads. Also TUNE YOUR CARB!!!!!! Holleys do not come pre tuned! Also... change your secondary springs to a lighter spring. Also your auto NEEDS at least a 2200 rpm converter with a shift kit (HELPS!!) The carb is PLENTY for your app. If need be, try adjusting the jet size. Good luck on your car. I want to just say that nearly any old car CAN handle like a fox body, but unfortunately, this takes about $750 in suspension rebuilding. I drive my car EVERY day... it's not too bad and i love the attention!! Carbs are JUST as reliable as EFI (if not MORE so!) ... what i do have to say is GREAT about EFI is the automatic tuning from the computer... gosh having major electronics sure is nice

------------------
'63 Merc Meteor hardtop, warm 302, C4 auto, 2.25" Flowmaster Exhaust,
'65 289 heads - ported/chevy valves, performer cam, edelbrock f4a intake, full length hookers, 600 holley, roller rockers, k'n, 10.5:1 hyperutetic pistons... mid 13's hoping to reach into 12's

Skyman · 01-13-2001, 12:36 AM

Yeah, well next on the list for the car is a 5speed swap. Would a MSD distributor really make a difference? How so, I dont understand how it could work better. The car has longtubes with 2-2 1/4 pipes all the way out the back with 2 chambers on it. I cant tell if they are 2" or 2 1/4 but they are definatly much smaller than my stang.

And the gasmileage for a C4 with a 302 is good! It gets better mileage w/ 92 octane too, about 23mpg on the freeway!!

Sky

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406-
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shortys, Offroad-H, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 15degrees timing, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb inj, Crank pulley, MSD6A, Alum driveshaft.

On its way: Paxton Sn-89 with dyno tuning and long tubes.

Just added: B&M Ripper, Weldin Subframes, & Turn downs!
13.2@106mph

Unit 5302 · 01-13-2001, 01:40 AM

Alrighty, I've seen my name mentioned, and I feel I must clear up some stuff here.

I disagree fully with all the old cars being quicker, or lasting longer than the EFI stuff. I love EFI, whenever somebody tells me they prefer the simplicity of carbs I laugh, because that means they just don't know much about EFI.

Old BB and the like can be setup to beat the Fox bodies, in stock to stock form, but not many of them. Sure your 428CJ's, LS6 454 Chevelle's and what not can really crank. Some are capable of blowing the 5.0's doors off when they are modded and the 5.0 isn't.

Back here in the real world, which is where I reside, the old BB's are good for about 60-70k before they begin getting tired, and the EFI cars run to 120-140k before you see the same reaction from them. My '87 GT gets 20/27 for fuel economy, should run high 13's, I've taken WS6's and SS's, but never by anything more than a car, blowing one away would be the mark of a 12 second car at least. My '87 weighs under 3100lbs, which is lighter than Mercdude at 3200, so I don't know where his numbers are coming from?

Anyway, lot's of people don't give the credit those old cars deserve, but they are by no means nearly as nice as the new ones. Not even close, not in the same ballpark.

My GT is so vastly superior to say a '69 Mach 1, which may actually beat me in the quarter when it's new, that the comparison is not even funny.

I've beaten the BB's, in fact I've never lost to one, even with 130,000+ miles on my 5.0, and there is no way you're going to get me to admit to their superiority.

I see that the new GT has been mentioned, it's the quickest Mustang GT ever produced. It outhandles, outaccelerates, and out top ends any GT Ford has ever put onto the road. The '99 Cobra with fix is arguably the quickest factory Ford Mustang ever produced, and would absolutely annihilate any other Mustang Ford has put on the road when tested across multiple road courses and driving scenerio's, from the 1/4, to the 0-100-0, to any test you can come up with. Even the mighty 93-94 Cobra R would fall to this car. (I don't even consider the new Cobra R to be a Mustang, it's a joke. $50k? What a laugh.)

That is where I stand, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I feel the owner of the new GT's perhaps have a bit too much ego, but certainly have the right to be proud of their cars, Ford has never made them better than they do today.

And you can quote me on that!

Unit 5302

Mercury · 01-13-2001, 02:01 AM

Miracle Max.

Oh the ones who speak bad of the 4.6 but know nothing. I'm not implying that you know nothing of the 4.6L thats just whats common around here.

People seem to detest or be scared of things they dont understand. Sure its physically big and bulky, sure it has only 281 cubes, but that 281 cubes can hang with every bit of 346 or 350 cubes that chevy puts out. Oh, by the way, what year is it that is the fastest stock GT. I've seen some MOd motors that will put a pushrodder in his place, especially while your getting ready to grab for third and hes just yanking it down into second. I love my brute 289, but I love the way those 4.6Liters of the 99 and newer scream. To bad you dont live around here, I'd see what ya got.

------------------
64 1/2 Red Mustang Coupe. 289, C4, 3:1 rear gear. Mallory duel point. Ported & Polished 65 heads shaved .01 with 351 windsor valves, high side of 10.5:1 comp, 1.7:1 sled rockers, blue wolverine lumpy cam, autolite 4100 Hipo 4 barrel. And to many others to list

2000 Perf Red Mustang GT. 5spd.

64 1/2 red 6cyl coupe. Auto. project car.

Rev · 01-13-2001, 02:40 AM

I seem to be in the enviable position of agreeing with most people on this thread. No one will disagree that a Holly carb is the easiest induction system to tune and the most versatile. They make a variety of parts to do anything anybody could want. No custom chips needed here. Tune any part of the carb any way you want it for just a few bucks in parts. Not so with EFI.

Don't get me wrong. For everyday driveability, dependability, and gas mileage, EFI can't be beat. That's what I drive daily.

For inexpensive power and backyard tunability, you can't beat a carb, especilly a Holly or a Demon.

Rev

------------------
'66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph
1/4 mi.

90dpscoupe · 01-13-2001, 02:53 AM

skyman, that 68 needs gears for the e-cam to get the full effects imo.

and unit, the 94-95 cobra-r would probaly edge out the 99-00 gt's, sorry to disagree, i do agree with just about everything else though. I know your not just talking 1/4, but my coupe can beat stock gt's depending on driver skill, in the 1/4.

and mercury, 70 mph is about when a (stock m6) would pull on me too.

------------------
90 lx coupe: Mac cold air fenderwell, accel supercoil,advncd ignition,3-core radiatr, FMS alum D/S, Black magic fan, 3.27grs, 3chbr flows.
Best time: 14.20(on 225/60/15 firehawks)
Best mph 97.80
Best 60' 2.1
next mods: subframes, 3.73's

Unit 5302 · 01-13-2001, 02:36 PM

90dpscoupe

You're right, a 94 Cobra R could most likely take a new GT, but if you'll look at what I posted again, it says the new Cobra would take it. With a 13.5 quarter mile time, it's arguably the fastest non race production Ford Mustang ever made.

94 Cobra R was rated at 5.2, and 13.8 @ 102(or something near 102)

I will certainly argue with a carb being easier to tune than EFI. What kind of position is that? EFI tunes itself! If you want to fine tune it, get an AFPR, that's 9 of 10 times all you need.

I will also dissent with the argument that a carb car is cheaper or easier to mod. I've been through this exact discussion in detail with a gung ho carb guy. He didn't have any replies after a detail price analysis of an 85GT vs 87GT for street/strip 12 second N/A car. I beat him. All forced induction mods are far and away more reliable on EFI cars than carbs. That mod alone makes a huge difference. in performance street applications.

The carb is inferior, any way you want to look at it. Just because some nimrods in high up racing NHRA, NASCAR, like to hold on to their ancient underperforming technology doesn't mean that it's actually better. It just means they are scared, and rightfully so, that new guys would take over the racing scene, and that the old timers that have refused to look into EFI would never be competitive.

01-11-2001, 03:12 PM	#1
MercDude Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: CA, US Posts: 113	Old cars that kick new car and FI a$$ Ok before i begin... i just want to say that you FI guys are such a huge opposition that we carbed guys have to stick together. you guys run awesome cause you have 3 computers/FI/new technology... etc, etc. Now you guys do haul, but what about us guys who put ALL of our sh!t together? Our car runs only as good as we tune it. I'm not sure how many guys here run old cars with carbs, but i do know that there are a few and i think this will be a contraversial subject. Plain and Simple; you can't beat old tech. It's easy to build, simple to maintain, lasts forever, and is just bada$$! I mean, you new car fanatics just drive your cars. My car is running about mid 13's without chassis/suspension mods or slicks. Not too shabby for a 38 year old car? I just love old cars and they are so cool and they just get the girls faster than anything else around. I continually whoop new car a$$ (although there are faster ones out there). I think everyone just believes that their little 5.0 GT 5spd can take my merc... they just guess wrong. My car is a little bit bigger then a '65 stang, but it's lighter then a fox body GT. I love to see those smarta$$'s in their $30K cars get smoked by my restomod. No better feeling in the world! Can anyone relate? I especially loved the look on the SS owner's face that i recently whooped! You want brutally fast power? get a falcon/mustang/fairlane... those cars will put a smile from ear to ear on you! ------------------ '63 Merc Meteor hardtop, warm 302, C4 auto, 2.25" Flowmaster Exhaust, '65 289 heads - ported/chevy valves, performer cam, edelbrock f4a intake, full length hookers, 600 holley, roller rockers, k'n, 10.5:1 hyperutetic pistons... mid 13's hoping to reach into 12's

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01-11-2001, 03:24 PM	#2
90dpscoupe Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: sanantonio, Tx, usa Posts: 1,407	I used to have a 78 4spd T/A, i loved it, it was my first fast car, but the quadrajunk carb it had required tuning or adjusting every time i ran it hard, or else it would bogg or die? now i never got a chance to replace it with a holley, which i know would have stayed adjusted better, i finally learned a good lesson about efi mustangs, they are fast, reliable, and you can run the sh1t out of em, and it still idles like new , but you resto hot rod guys keep it up, i mean these old cars started it all, the newer cars just evolved (thank god) i cant afford 5 miles to the gallon (exaggeration)....he..he ------------------ 90 lx coupe: Mac cold air fenderwell, accel supercoil,advncd ignition,3-core radiatr, FMS alum D/S, Black magic fan, 3.27grs, 3chbr flows. Best time: 14.20(on 225/60/15 firehawks) Best mph 97.80 Best 60' 2.1 next mods: subframes, 3.73's

01-11-2001, 03:34 PM	#3
MercDude Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: CA, US Posts: 113	yeah to tell you the truth, i really respect FI cars... but i enjoy the simplicity of carbs. oh... my car gets about 16mpg/city 18mpg/highway = no overdrive

01-11-2001, 04:00 PM	#4
sedanman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 963	well I enjoy looking at old cars and respect the way they ran with what they had, you have to look at where we are today FI is defienetly where it is at I mean look how many people on this site have low 13 cars or faster that drive them every day! I mean carb cars are such a bear because you have to tune them every time the weather changes to get the best results, FI cars do it all there selves. I think I have been beaten once on the street by a carbed car though many have tried. Its just FI cars run consistently better than carbed cars.

01-11-2001, 04:15 PM	#5
spinemup Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: middleboro,ma, usa Posts: 734	i like old cars..... they look nice while i'm staring at them in my rear view. i run low 13's and don't affect the environment as much as your inefficient pos does. i'll out handle any ol' rust bucket too. mister bias ply 14" mag wheels how do you like that for contreversey? (where's imouer) ------------------ THE MIGHTY NOTCH

01-11-2001, 04:22 PM	#6
Tom351 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Atlanta,GA,USA Posts: 278	I prefer the carb, but my car only drives for fun. If it was my only transportation, I would want EFI. Injection is also much easier to hook a supercharger to. Carbs kick *** and I love to beat 5.0's, but some of them (mostly boost or No2)love to roast my a$$. ------------------ 67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint 351W ,Trick Flow Aluminum Heads, Edelbrock TorkerII, Comp. Cam, Performance Automatic C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars. My 351W Fastback

01-11-2001, 04:58 PM	#7
88GT5.013.02 Guest Posts: n/a	I can tune carbs just as good as the next guy. Yeah I drive a new EFI car, but I grew up tuning carbed cars. My dad has a 63 1/2 Galaxie with a 427. This thing has dual quads and it has a solid lifter cam. I can tune the carbs, I can set the points, and I can set the hot and cold valve lash (which on a solid lifter motor could be weekly depending on how much you drive it). Carbed cars are great, but I wouldn't trade EFI for the world, in terms of driveability. I turn the key and it starts. You can get a carb to do this, but I don't have the time to tune it to the weather. EFI automatically adjusts to weather changes. Carbs are good for high performance, but in my mind and for me EFI is where it is at. All around, EFI performs better than a carb. ------------------ 88GT stock shortblock, ported GT-40 iron heads, Edlebrock Performer intake, 24# inj, Pro-M 75mm Bullet MAM, 3.73, hurst short throw, F-303, electric fan, alum rad, FMS HD clutch, R134a ac conversion, 70mm TB , and some other stuff I probably forgot, best run so far on ET streets is 13.02@106 with a 1.87 60ft Only been to the track once still alot more tuning to do and need more driving experience.(Full body weight GT, full tank of gas, and sway bars connected, gonna disconnect sway bars and dip [This message has been edited by 88GT5.013.02 (edited 01-11-2001).] [This message has been edited by 88GT5.013.02 (edited 01-11-2001).]

01-11-2001, 05:43 PM	#8
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	Thats why I luv you MercDude, You and Unit are like twins. Old sh1t is just that, old sh1t. Every dog has it's day and the 60's are over. Granted anything can be made to go fast, but come back in oh, say 3 or 4 years when a wimpy 4.6 mod motor spanks your butt (hurts to write that but the ol' 5.0 is riding at its peak. and the future belongs to that lump of lard called the mod motor). IMO carb or EFI are two ways to skin the same cat. BTW how much does your car weigh? Mine tipped the scales at 3200 lbs. (factory) but now its on a diet and getting some more muscle. Now for the reason 5.0 EFI folks are legion. It's the car that brought back the good ol' days of going fast cheap. Not everbody has or had the chance to go fast in old iron so for most, fuel-injected 5.0's are the standard

01-12-2001, 05:37 AM	#9
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Have you run your car at the track yet Merc? Or are you just guessin at mid 13's or what? You have any tips for me? We have a nice new 5.0 302 setup in my cousin 68 mustang, and it just doesnt perform like it should. Althought it does get good mileage, and quite an increase since we did a full MSD ignition on it. He's running a holley 600cfm carb too, we were thinkin its just way too small. Its a brand new stock 5.0L block, so 9:1 comp. FMS Aluminum Y heads 1.94 valve. E-303 Cam, and Edelbrock performer 289 intake, w/ a box stock holley 600 on top. MSD 6a, msd wires and blaster 3 coil. Stock C4 and 3:1 gears. Sky ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shortys, Offroad-H, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 15degrees timing, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb inj, Crank pulley, MSD6A, Alum driveshaft. On its way: Paxton Sn-89 with dyno tuning and long tubes. Just added: B&M Ripper, Weldin Subframes, & Turn downs! 13.2@106mph

01-12-2001, 06:56 AM	#10
dirtyGT Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: INDIANA Posts: 658	I like the driveablty of efi alot better but i've been around my share of carbed cars my dad had a 69z28 4speed with a 302 also a roadrunner (not sure what year) and a 69 chevelle ss 396 so i've been around them and helped him some i know there was no fords listed but what can i say i guess i'm just the thorn in his back.Long live all american iron! ------------------ 86GT-MACcatback-89heads,intake,TB,KENNYBROWNsubs,3.73's,HURST shifter,much more to come

01-12-2001, 07:01 PM	#11
Drag4money Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: MA/RI Posts: 18	Okay, I'm gonna get in the Sh*t for this one, but here goes... Having both the Antique Muscle car and a newer EFI Mustang leads me to these conclusions... On a hot summer night, or at a cruise drive in show, nothing is better than a big block rumbling in that's in pristine condition with the old muscle car look... That being said,, as a daily driver, nothing is better than no pumping the gas in the morning, great heat, and cracking thru the back roads at 50mph because the handling is supurb,,,The seats have more support, The 4 wheel discs stop great, the thing is glued to the road with enormous sway bars and nice rubber, less body roll too,,, besides, would you drive your classic in the snow or the rain??? I wouldn't, that's why I bought my SN94. SO I get to have some power in all weather and driving conditions... Not a bad car for my first time modding and owning a Ford.... Just my .02

01-12-2001, 09:02 PM	#12
MrWesson22 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Dacula, GA Posts: 73	Skyman, Put some GEAR in that thing!! It's amazing what a gear change will do to the whole attitude of a car.. The 600 really isn't too small for your combo as long as it's tuned/jetted right. It's better to have too little carb than too much. MercDude, I wish I could get that kinda gas mileage! The old motor averaged 11.5 to the tank, and of course I had to run 93 octane. The new one will probably get less since it's a 4V and the old one was a 2V motor (edel intake/holley 600). ------------------ Neal 69 stang 351C/4sp

01-12-2001, 09:43 PM	#13
MrWesson22 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Dacula, GA Posts: 73	Oh, OLD CARS, solid flat tappet cams, and carburators ROCK!! (especially for nitrous!).... What kind of true car guy whines about having to adjust valve lash or tune a carb? Whatever... that's just a good excuse to do what I enjoy doing! ------------------ Neal 69 stang 351C/4sp

01-12-2001, 11:20 PM	#14
MercDude Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: CA, US Posts: 113	Well... my car weighs about 3200lbs also. Now, spinemup, i happen to have MANY MANY improvements to my suspension... one being sway bars, two being shocks, three being springs, four monte carlo bar, and five i have 15's on 50 series tires measuring 225front 245back... that's nearly the size of 275/45/16's. Carbs have NOTHING to do with reliability to start in mornings (well if you tune it first ). Mostly that has to do with the type of distributor/ignition you own... like i run an unilite mallory dist with full mallory ignition (coil, hyfire, wires)and my car fires up no prob every morning. Skyman, i haven't been there lately... so yes i am guessing BUT i have raced a slightly moded '00 M6 SS and i KILLED him off the line by about 5 cars... and we pulled it out until about 90 then we shut it down... he started to pull on me like a raped ape at about 70 (didn't pull all the way through second ) but that's basically how i'm judging my et currently. My advice to you is to get a MSD dist (helps A TON!) and to get a stealth intake (or performer RPM)... also put some nice long tube headers on with 3 chamber flows. The gears are REALLY killing you with an auto and that cam/heads. Also TUNE YOUR CARB!!!!!! Holleys do not come pre tuned! Also... change your secondary springs to a lighter spring. Also your auto NEEDS at least a 2200 rpm converter with a shift kit (HELPS!!) The carb is PLENTY for your app. If need be, try adjusting the jet size. Good luck on your car. I want to just say that nearly any old car CAN handle like a fox body, but unfortunately, this takes about $750 in suspension rebuilding. I drive my car EVERY day... it's not too bad and i love the attention!! Carbs are JUST as reliable as EFI (if not MORE so!) ... what i do have to say is GREAT about EFI is the automatic tuning from the computer... gosh having major electronics sure is nice ------------------ '63 Merc Meteor hardtop, warm 302, C4 auto, 2.25" Flowmaster Exhaust, '65 289 heads - ported/chevy valves, performer cam, edelbrock f4a intake, full length hookers, 600 holley, roller rockers, k'n, 10.5:1 hyperutetic pistons... mid 13's hoping to reach into 12's

01-13-2001, 12:36 AM	#15
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Yeah, well next on the list for the car is a 5speed swap. Would a MSD distributor really make a difference? How so, I dont understand how it could work better. The car has longtubes with 2-2 1/4 pipes all the way out the back with 2 chambers on it. I cant tell if they are 2" or 2 1/4 but they are definatly much smaller than my stang. And the gasmileage for a C4 with a 302 is good! It gets better mileage w/ 92 octane too, about 23mpg on the freeway!! Sky ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shortys, Offroad-H, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 15degrees timing, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb inj, Crank pulley, MSD6A, Alum driveshaft. On its way: Paxton Sn-89 with dyno tuning and long tubes. Just added: B&M Ripper, Weldin Subframes, & Turn downs! 13.2@106mph

01-13-2001, 01:40 AM	#16
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	Alrighty, I've seen my name mentioned, and I feel I must clear up some stuff here. I disagree fully with all the old cars being quicker, or lasting longer than the EFI stuff. I love EFI, whenever somebody tells me they prefer the simplicity of carbs I laugh, because that means they just don't know much about EFI. Old BB and the like can be setup to beat the Fox bodies, in stock to stock form, but not many of them. Sure your 428CJ's, LS6 454 Chevelle's and what not can really crank. Some are capable of blowing the 5.0's doors off when they are modded and the 5.0 isn't. Back here in the real world, which is where I reside, the old BB's are good for about 60-70k before they begin getting tired, and the EFI cars run to 120-140k before you see the same reaction from them. My '87 GT gets 20/27 for fuel economy, should run high 13's, I've taken WS6's and SS's, but never by anything more than a car, blowing one away would be the mark of a 12 second car at least. My '87 weighs under 3100lbs, which is lighter than Mercdude at 3200, so I don't know where his numbers are coming from? Anyway, lot's of people don't give the credit those old cars deserve, but they are by no means nearly as nice as the new ones. Not even close, not in the same ballpark. My GT is so vastly superior to say a '69 Mach 1, which may actually beat me in the quarter when it's new, that the comparison is not even funny. I've beaten the BB's, in fact I've never lost to one, even with 130,000+ miles on my 5.0, and there is no way you're going to get me to admit to their superiority. I see that the new GT has been mentioned, it's the quickest Mustang GT ever produced. It outhandles, outaccelerates, and out top ends any GT Ford has ever put onto the road. The '99 Cobra with fix is arguably the quickest factory Ford Mustang ever produced, and would absolutely annihilate any other Mustang Ford has put on the road when tested across multiple road courses and driving scenerio's, from the 1/4, to the 0-100-0, to any test you can come up with. Even the mighty 93-94 Cobra R would fall to this car. (I don't even consider the new Cobra R to be a Mustang, it's a joke. $50k? What a laugh.) That is where I stand, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I feel the owner of the new GT's perhaps have a bit too much ego, but certainly have the right to be proud of their cars, Ford has never made them better than they do today. And you can quote me on that! Unit 5302

01-13-2001, 02:01 AM	#17
Mercury The Redneck James Bond Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Fayetteville NC Posts: 1,707	Miracle Max. Oh the ones who speak bad of the 4.6 but know nothing. I'm not implying that you know nothing of the 4.6L thats just whats common around here. People seem to detest or be scared of things they dont understand. Sure its physically big and bulky, sure it has only 281 cubes, but that 281 cubes can hang with every bit of 346 or 350 cubes that chevy puts out. Oh, by the way, what year is it that is the fastest stock GT. I've seen some MOd motors that will put a pushrodder in his place, especially while your getting ready to grab for third and hes just yanking it down into second. I love my brute 289, but I love the way those 4.6Liters of the 99 and newer scream. To bad you dont live around here, I'd see what ya got. ------------------ 64 1/2 Red Mustang Coupe. 289, C4, 3:1 rear gear. Mallory duel point. Ported & Polished 65 heads shaved .01 with 351 windsor valves, high side of 10.5:1 comp, 1.7:1 sled rockers, blue wolverine lumpy cam, autolite 4100 Hipo 4 barrel. And to many others to list 2000 Perf Red Mustang GT. 5spd. 64 1/2 red 6cyl coupe. Auto. project car.

01-13-2001, 02:40 AM	#18
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	I seem to be in the enviable position of agreeing with most people on this thread. No one will disagree that a Holly carb is the easiest induction system to tune and the most versatile. They make a variety of parts to do anything anybody could want. No custom chips needed here. Tune any part of the carb any way you want it for just a few bucks in parts. Not so with EFI. Don't get me wrong. For everyday driveability, dependability, and gas mileage, EFI can't be beat. That's what I drive daily. For inexpensive power and backyard tunability, you can't beat a carb, especilly a Holly or a Demon. Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi.

01-13-2001, 02:53 AM	#19
90dpscoupe Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: sanantonio, Tx, usa Posts: 1,407	skyman, that 68 needs gears for the e-cam to get the full effects imo. and unit, the 94-95 cobra-r would probaly edge out the 99-00 gt's, sorry to disagree, i do agree with just about everything else though. I know your not just talking 1/4, but my coupe can beat stock gt's depending on driver skill, in the 1/4. and mercury, 70 mph is about when a (stock m6) would pull on me too. ------------------ 90 lx coupe: Mac cold air fenderwell, accel supercoil,advncd ignition,3-core radiatr, FMS alum D/S, Black magic fan, 3.27grs, 3chbr flows. Best time: 14.20(on 225/60/15 firehawks) Best mph 97.80 Best 60' 2.1 next mods: subframes, 3.73's

01-13-2001, 02:36 PM	#20
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	90dpscoupe You're right, a 94 Cobra R could most likely take a new GT, but if you'll look at what I posted again, it says the new Cobra would take it. With a 13.5 quarter mile time, it's arguably the fastest non race production Ford Mustang ever made. 94 Cobra R was rated at 5.2, and 13.8 @ 102(or something near 102) I will certainly argue with a carb being easier to tune than EFI. What kind of position is that? EFI tunes itself! If you want to fine tune it, get an AFPR, that's 9 of 10 times all you need. I will also dissent with the argument that a carb car is cheaper or easier to mod. I've been through this exact discussion in detail with a gung ho carb guy. He didn't have any replies after a detail price analysis of an 85GT vs 87GT for street/strip 12 second N/A car. I beat him. All forced induction mods are far and away more reliable on EFI cars than carbs. That mod alone makes a huge difference. in performance street applications. The carb is inferior, any way you want to look at it. Just because some nimrods in high up racing NHRA, NASCAR, like to hold on to their ancient underperforming technology doesn't mean that it's actually better. It just means they are scared, and rightfully so, that new guys would take over the racing scene, and that the old timers that have refused to look into EFI would never be competitive.