Grand Prix vs Mustang

[twetzel]

What are your thoughts on the late-model Pontiac Grand Prix GTP? I test drove one today for fun, and the salesman touted it as a Mustang-beater. He argued that although GP has slightly less power (claimed 240 supercharged hp), it will win in the quarter-mile due to its superior handling and traction.

Just wanted to see the reaction of Mustang lovers.

Thanks.

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Tim

[Hammer]

It would be closer than some of us would like to admit, but equally driven cars would have the Mustang GT come out ahead every time.

There is absolutely no traction advantage for the GTP that I know of, and what does handling have anything to do with a straight-line run?

The GTP is about 200 pounds heavier than the Mustang GT...

Also, HP numbers are misleading when comparing N/A to Blower-induced stats.

It's ALL in the power curve, (which by the way makes the LS-1 engine so darn hard to catch.. ) Generally, 200hp from an N/A motor will give a much broader and flatter power curve, giving you good hp and torque numbers through much of the tach.... while a blown motor usually has to go high in the tach to start getting some really good numbers out of it. Trying to do this on the Grand Prix's displacement limited 3.8L V6 makes this shortfall even worse.

Even if the hp ratings were the same (which they are not), in general you would have more power more of the time than the GTP.

Heck, by the time the GTP's in it's power band, you've won the race...

Sorry Tim, But the salesman will say anything to sell a car...

Have you test driven a 99 or later Mustang GT? Get on the throttle, and the seat of your pants will tell you the difference by 3500-4000 RPM....

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"The Yellowjacket"
381.8 rwhp 377.6 rwtq

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."

[stanger8172]

My best street race was with a late-model GTP. I pulled on him by a car length.

I didn't have pullies, A/C Eliminator kit, battery in the trunk, short belt, or the glasspacks.

I just had the worked over heads, K&N, and electric fans

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'91 LX convertible , T-5, Centerforce Dual Friction, FMS adjustable cable w/quadrant, 3:55's(not installed yet), ported/polished/milled E7 heads, 1.6rr, 1.94/1.60 stainless valves, March Performance Pulleys and A/C Eliminator, short belt, K&N, battery in trunk, glasspacks w/turndowns, 225/50/16 Re 730's

[stanger8172]

Forgot to mention that I have seen a GTP run a 13 sec. time.

I don't know what he had in it but it sounded like a mean blower.

That was a nice car but he obviously had some coin stuck in it.

You would get bored driving the GTP, Mustangs are much more fun to own and drive!!!

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'91 LX convertible , T-5, Centerforce Dual Friction, FMS adjustable cable w/quadrant, 3:55's(not installed yet), ported/polished/milled E7 heads, 1.6rr, 1.94/1.60 stainless valves, March Performance Pulleys and A/C Eliminator, short belt, K&N, battery in trunk, glasspacks w/turndowns, 225/50/16 Re 730's

[Stefan]

I agree. I think that was just an excited salesperson trying to sell you a car. Don't get me wrong I think the GTP's are awesome cars and are great for what they are. Hammer summed everything up quite realistically though.

Have a good one,
Brett

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66 Tahoe Turquoise Coupe
Laser Red 96GT Ragtop
30 Years & 30 inches apart in the driveway!

[Red Mustang Gt 46]

Anything with less than 8 cylinders is no fun! (plus it's an ugly car)

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1998 Mustang Gt
C&L 80mm
Steeda Underdrives
Steeda Tri-Ax
Magnaflows

[twetzel]

Hammer: I forgot to type that he also said the GP was better through curves because it's front-wheel-drive. I had test driven a 99 GT convertible a couple of hours before. The 'Stang definitely felt better. I don't like convertibles, though. One thing I can say about the GP is that it has more interior and trunk space, but the Mustang seems more fun. I also don't like the idea of relying on a supercharger; it feels like it's just something expensive to fix when it breaks.

I would like to drive the cars alone; my girlfriend and the salesman were along for the ride with both cars. Also, I feel a little funny red-lining a car that's not mine with the salesman sitting behind me.

I agree with the preference for 8 cylinders. I do like the looks of the GP, though.

What kind of fuel economy do the late-model GTs get (stock and modified with gears, pulleys, etc)?

[This message has been edited by twetzel (edited 08-18-2001).]

[95GTS]

Their turds compared to the mustangs. I beat one pretty bad once in my 96 (K&N, 3.73s) and I had passengers! They are blown way out of proportion. Also the front wheel drive deal is BS. If he believes that then let me at him with my 4500 lb. rear wheel drive truck. He'll see nothing but taillights.

As long as you don't play with them alot then you'll see low to mid 20s mpg in the stangs. Put a whoopin' on the Pontiac in a straight line or the twisties and get in the 20s mpg while doing it. Can't beat that. Plus what the heck mods could you do to the Pontiac? Mustangs you can mod . Plus the heavier convertible stang will be slower than the lighter hardtop stang.
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1994 Red SVT Lightning #2019



[This message has been edited by 96GTS (edited 08-18-2001).]

[Mustang92]

No wonder I've gotten more races on the street from GTPs that Mustang and Camaros. Granted they can be quick with a smaller blower pulley, nittos, ram air and a few other mods. Stock though they are good for mid to low 15's, maybe a lucky 14.99 once in a while. There are two or three running 13.80's around here, nothing special.

For gas mileage on our cars with 4.10's and all the mods in my sig I was getting 19MPG city/freeway/drag strip each week. On long trips I get 27MPG. Now with 4.30's I don't expect that to change very much if at all.

Gotta love a car that can get 27MPG on the way to a race and pull the wheel of the ground!

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00 GT, MAC Offroad H, Steeda Pulleys & Timing Adjuster, C&L 80mm, 4.30’s, Flows w/turndowns, UPR shifter, UPR Pro Series LCA’s, Lakewood 70/30’s & 50/50’s, 253.8 RWHP/292.8RWTQ
Best ET 12.91
Best MPH 105.49
M/M 100, 7085
2001 Mod Motor Shootout 2V NA Champion

[SMOKE]

Just to put some of this "conversation" into perspective.

Link: http://www.clubgp.com/cgi-asp/qtrmile.asp

The GTPs are sweet running cars but I don't need all that room.


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K!
Personalized Black 98 SVO Blown DVD/TV equipped daily driver Stage II ROUSH
without the side exhaust
Dyno 303rwhp 338rwtrq
Still working out the kinks!!!

[This message has been edited by SMOKE (edited 08-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by SMOKE (edited 08-19-2001).]

[95mustanggt]

First, the FWD thing is total BS. I seriously doubt that a New GT would lose to a GTP. Does everyone remember the race between the Integra Type R and the New GTs??? The GT won, until they changed the track to the Integra's advantage and even the the GT was right on the Integra's bumper.

Smoke, we have no doubt that you can put money into GTP's and they can run 13's and lower, But you can do the same to a GT. If I posted a list of Stangs that run under 14.0 I would be working around the clock for a couple weeks to try and get all the cars in.

Ya, the GTP has more room, but it's a pontiac. Tell you what, you buy that car and 60,000 miles latter when it is falling apart, buy a mustang and get you'll have had the best of both worlds .

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1995 Mustang GT

[SVT99COBRA]

Hello Tim,
It was 5 years ago I had a Pontiac Bonneville ssei (Supercharged) which was the same engine in GTP - Just wasted money on that car...LOTs of PROBLEMs. Then I replaced it with the MX-6 V-6 still problem on the car. Until I got the 1998 FORD SVT Contour (the longest car I've ever had - 3.3 years).
Since then I fall in love with FORD vehicle.
This car is really SPECIAL. It could beat almost anything on the road at that present time; Audi 2.8L, Eclipse, integra Type-R to name a few. Now I have a 99 SVT MUSTANG COBRA
It feels like a brand new Cobra (Just 13K miles when I got it a month ago) Just the amazing real Horse Power under the STOCK hood. It beats the '99 M3, '00 S4 and the 01 Camaro SS so far. That's for your comparison and that's not from a sales person. The Ford Mustang is THE BEST BANG for YOUR BUCKS! Get one and you'll understand.

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99 SVT Mustang COBRA
Electric Green

[95GTS]

Hey SVT99COBRA, if that car only has 13K miles on it then you might take it to the SVT dealership and make sure it's had the "Fix" recall performed on it unless you already know that it's been done.

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1994 Red SVT Lightning #2019

[SVT99COBRA]

Thanks 96GTS. I already called 1-800-FORDSVT,
I'm glad It's been done on April.

Originally posted by 96GTS:
Hey SVT99COBRA, if that car only has 13K miles and make sure it's had the "Fix" recall performed on it unless you already know that it's been done.

[twetzel]

What is this "fix" I've heard about on the 99 Cobra? Do all of them need it? If I bought a used one, how would I know if it had been done, and could I get it done for free if it hasn't already?

[SMOKE]

twetzel To answer the question ... yes.

The fix was offered to all 99 Cobra onwers. If you got a used one you should get the paperwork on the fix.



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K!
Personalized Black 98 SVO Blown DVD/TV equipped daily driver Stage II ROUSH
without the side exhaust
Dyno 303rwhp 338rwtrq
Still working out the kinks!!!

[Unit 5302]

Originally posted by SMOKE:
Just to put some of this "conversation" into perspective.

Link: http://www.clubgp.com/cgi-asp/qtrmile.asp

The GTPs are sweet running cars but I don't need all that room.

Can anybody actually read that modification babble. ERAIT MRYT SRHOYRWT>S GGRETA NAHSURLSK.

That kinda stuff doesn't help me put anything into perspective. All that babble could say bigger S/C, smaller pulley, engine mods etc etc.

As far as power adder cars being at a disadvantage when it comes to powerband, that's not always the case. Take a look at the Thunderbird Super Coupe. Due to it's positive displacement blower it made more peak torque 315lb/ft at a lower rpm 2600rpms than the 5.0HO from the Mustang 300lb/ft@3200rpm. The HP numbers were similar. The 3.8L S/C Super Coupe made 210hp@4000, the Mustang GT made 225hp@4200. That made the 3.8L S/C engine in the Thunderbird more likely to have power whenever you wanted than a much larger N/A 5.0L V-8. In the case of the GTP the assesment is also wrong. 240hp@5200, 280lb/ft@3200. The GTP makes less hp and torque than the GT, but look at how much broader the powerband is. Max torque is on tap at only 3200rpms, the same as the old 5.0, and peak hp is also lower than the GT at 5200 vs 5250. The 2001 GT makes 260hp@5250, and 302lb/ft@4600. Of course the GT hangs around that peak torque for a while, but overall, the powerband is probably narrower than the GTP's.

As far as superior traction, that's a load. FWD has inferior traction to RWD on grippy surfaces because of weight transfer, and weight distribution kills FWD in the twisties. You can make anything quick (Type R) by making it weigh next to nothing and putting a race inspired chassis/suspension system together, but RWD is a far better platform to start from when it comes to handling. In the idiot salesman's mind, he probably thinks that he is right. In the real world the Mustang will out accelerate, outcorner, and just plain outrun a GTP.