Starter still says engaged!

[Hethj7]

Well, I put the new relay on by the battery....again. The second time I started the car up the starter stayed engaged until the battery ran dead. I couldn't get it to quit .

I know it has to be something simple, but I don't know what. New starter, second new relay, and new switch in the steering column have all been put in. Any more ideas? I am about ready to take it to a shop and let them mess with it .

[Hethj7]

One other thing I thought of. I have a Viper alarm on the car that wont' let the car start when engaged. I have no idea how that thing is wired, but could the problem lie with it somewhere?

[PKRWUD]

Do you have a test light or a DMM?

[Hethj7]

Yea, I have a test light.

What is a DMM ?

[PKRWUD]

Originally posted by Hethj7
Yea, I have a test light.

What is a DMM ?

A DMM is a Digital MultiMeter.

Do this:

Get a helper.
Attach the alligator clip from the test light to a good ground.
Verify by touching the test light tip to the pos. battery terminal.
Disconnect the small press-on wire that goes to the starter relay.
Have your helper hold the test light tip to the wire you disconnected from the relay.
Go and try and start the car with the key (it won't even crank over, but don't worry. Just hold the key in the START position for 2 or 3 seconds).
While you do this, the test light should light up, and it should go out when you stop. If it does, then the problem is in the relay. If the test light stays lit after you release the key, then the problem is either in the ignition switch, or the lock and tumbler.

Take care,
-Chris

[Hethj7]

Thanks, Chris! I will try that out tonight.

[PKRWUD]

No sweat!

Post your results, and we'll go from there.



Take care,
-Chris

[Hethj7]

Chris - I remembered today while in class that when the starter stays engaged and I pull that top wire off the solenoid, it quits. This means I don't need to mess with the test light, right? This would mean that the test light probably would have stayed lit, and my problem is not the solenoid.

Also, I should mention that when it happened yesterday and I let the clutch back out, the starter still was engaged. Shouldn't the clutch switch had killed it when I let the pedal out? Although this wouldn't explain why it stays engaged sometimes....perhaps I have ruined that clutch switch in this whole ordeal.

Also, the car ran itself dead trying to start up yesterday. After it did that, I rolled it into the garage, pulled that wire off the solenoid, and charged the battery. I would think it may be possible to now just re-attach that wire and the car may try to start, since it is basically in the same state it was in when it ran itself dead. But, it doesn't and the only thing that I did was to push in the clutch a few times to put it in neutral to push it inside, then put it back in gear.

Also, why would the lock and tumbler possibly cause this...isn't it basically just a mechanical device (as opposed to being an electric switch)? Maybe I should replace that ignition switch in the steering column again, but it would seem wierd that the new one I put in is bad .

Sorry for the long post...just trying to give you all relevant info I can think of.

At least it cooled off today and riding my motorcycle wasn't too bad ! But, it sucked knowing my stang was broken at home .

[PKRWUD]

Okay, first of all, yes, you need to use the test light.

See, if disconnecting the push-on wire from the relay stops the starter from spinning on it's own, then the problem lies in the ignition switch circuit. It would mean that the switch was sticking in the start position. But, as you mentioned, the clutch switch would also have to be closed, but you said that that didn't effect it. That means it had to be a sticking relay. This is a lot like a cat chasing it's tail. Rather than run in circles, let's do this methodically.

Hook up the test light like I suggested, and do what I suggested. Tell me what happens.

Take care,
-Chris

[Hethj7]

Okay, I apoligize, Chris. Apparently my step dad and I both remembered wrong about the starter disengaging when pulling the switch.

We went to use the test light like you were talking about. Everything seemed to work normal. Light would go out when it was supposed too and get power when I tried to start the car. So, we hooked it back up and started it. After a few tries the starter stayed engaged. We pulled the wire and the starter still stayed engaged. We then disconnected the battery to get it to quit.

Now it gets interesting. With the wire still off, the key in the off position, and the clutch out, we went to hook the battery back up. The starter immediately engaged. So, it has to be that the solenoid is stuck, correct? That is the only place the starter can receive power from.

Our theory now is that the only place that solenoid can find ground, is through the panel it mounts on. Well, I was missing a screw, so just one was holding it on. Maybe it couldn't always find ground and was in turn looking for ground through the starter. We pulled the solenoid off and took it apart. It looks like the solenoid has been welding itself to each post, and I assume that happens when it can't ground itself to the .

Does this seem possible? I guess I will get all the screws to mount the solenoid correctly and then slap a new one on there.

[PKRWUD]

I think you figured it out. When you install the new relay, make sure the mounting holes in the fenderwell aren't rusty or corroded. If in doubt, hit it with a small wire brush. Next, try and use sheet metal screws to mount the relay to the fenderwell.

I suspect that you will be fine now.



Take care,
-Chris

[Hethj7]

I am out of town for the weekend, so it will be Monday before I get to it. I will let you know. Thanks again for your help!

[Capri306]

Dang, you guys beat me to it. I was gonna recommend cleaning the fender where the solenoid mounts, too. There's two sets of windings in a starter solenoid: pull-in and hold-in. They do electrically just what the name implies. The ground through the casing of the solenoid is VERY important. I had this happen on my '79 Capri once and it had me baffled for a bit, too. The best way to prevent this from happening again is to just run a ground wire/braid from the mounting screws to the negative battery terminal. I hate anything grounded to the chassis. It's just like an invitation for electrical problems. Ever notice how much stuff in the EEC's harness is grounded back to the computer itself???

[Hethj7]

Well, so far so good. I got the new solenoid installed and took Capri's advice about running a ground wire. I have only started it a handful of times tonight, but so far so good. I will be driving it again tomorrow, so hopefully I have fixed the problem.

btw, I also installed a new 6 piece headlight kit to replace my yellowed ones. Man, they really look sharp next to my new paint! I am turning my eyes toward some Cobra R's now , but am still debating if I have the money.

Thanks again for your help!