How to reach 375hp

dlb1982 · 10-09-2002, 05:33 PM

I have almost completed a 302/331 stroker short block... But have not choosen a cam yet.

I want to hear how to make 375 - 400 hp naturaly asperated. Which cam, heads, intake, and injector size to use... It will be a street car so i can't have anything "too" radical... and 94-95 is a little more sensitive about having good vacuum.

Any ideas, thoughts, or personal experiences would be really helpful.

oh and has anybody made that much power naturaly asperated on a alphabit cam?

MiracleMax · 10-09-2002, 09:58 PM

Check here

http://www.airflowresearch.com/dyno/ford_dyno.htm

Most of the AFR engines seem to have used a Comp Cams cam.

dlb1982 · 10-09-2002, 10:52 PM

Well i have seen a lot of people have bad luck with Crane. Another thing... all those engines where carborated. A lot easier to make huge amounts of power with a carb.

whats some good hp that people are running EFI? I know ford rates there crate motor at 345 fuel injected... so somebody has to be making more then that with a stoker that is fuel injected... Im starting to beleive aluminum ported heads are the way to do it? Any ideas?

dlb1982 · 10-09-2002, 10:58 PM

MiracleMax, What are you putting out with your stroker. I might be able to get some idea of what to expect if i knew what your 347 was putting out with what you got.

MiracleMax · 10-10-2002, 06:04 PM

Dunno, its still in pieces, I'm shooting for 450+, I think by the time I get everything together I'll be to old to run it

Anywhosit, Do you mean Crane or Comp Cams? Most of the AFR engines ran with a Comp Cams cam.

If you look at the engines, they point you in the right direction. 10:1 motor with about .560 lift and 220 duration @ .050 with a 112 degree lobe center (114 deg. seems more computer friendly). That should put you where you want to be.

As for carbs, yeah what'evah. Properly set-up, you'll not be giving up anything to a carb (except some heat transfer).

Take two engines with identical runner lengths, plenum volumes, and airflow capacity. Guess what? same power. Nothing mystical about.

Think your combo through real good, and identify your powerband. Then select parts which complement the plan.

Most people do some sort of anti-tuning (which isn't as bad as it sounds). which makes for a broader power band, but with no significant peaks (assuming of course the intake and exhaust is designed to work at different peak rpm.)

dlb1982 · 10-10-2002, 10:08 PM

I went to the place i got my car dyno'd and got some advice today... They said a set of aluminum heads with at least 2.02 and 1.60. Which rules out GT-40. either a 58 - 62cc chamber heads and a cam with somewhere around 5.50 lift with 1.6 roller rockers or 5.20 with 1.7. I think a 225 duration... Well actually for the cam he said i would be better off calling and having one ground for me..

He then showed me a 331 stroker with 375 hp to wheels on his computer from a dyno he had done recently. 36lb injectors and a t-rex fuel pump was needed on that particular stroker to make that.

So i know have a good idea how to start anyway.

MiracleMax · 10-12-2002, 07:39 AM

you don't nessecarily have to use a 2.02 head, provided of course you have the nessecary airflow. AFR's page has a 1.90 valve 450 hp 331, but it uses a solid roller cam.

Anywhosit, if your after 375 rwhp, Your gonna need about 440 hp at the crank (assuming you are gonna lose something on the order of 18% through the drivetrain)

88workcar · 10-12-2002, 08:40 PM

Are you looking for RWHP or FWHP If it is the FWHP you are looking for, that is easy. Any alum head, B or E cam and any good intake. Another 60 on top of that will take good planning

dlb1982 · 10-12-2002, 11:15 PM

Im looking for RWHP.... I want 375 hp to the back wheels. I would be looking for 18-20% more from the flywheel.

Ive got a good idea how to do it... Some decent heads, A little bit of porting and a custom cam Combined with a stroker... i should be close...

Skyman · 10-14-2002, 03:20 AM

I would go with a holley intake (which im selling) ported TFS TW heads or AFR 185's, and a custom ground cam with about 10.5-11:1 compression.

375rwhp is not easy, but its attainable. Your going to need to look for about a 6000-6200rpm peak HP point and definatly a custom tuned chip, plus all the rest of the supporting peices.

Skyler

MiracleMax · 10-14-2002, 07:00 AM

On a 350 c.i engine the AFR 185's can support upto about 560 hp.
(est. hp based on airflow = .2575 x CFM x # of cylinders)

Using this as a guide, you'll need about 220 cfm of airflow per cylinder to support 450 hp. (I assume this is in a highly tuned state)

If you can find flowbench numbers for intake manifolds, you'll want something that can flow about that per runner (or better yet within 10% of the intake port, I assume on the high side? So more like 110%). The info I have handy on intakes is very sketchy (wish I had some old Super Ford magazines handy

)

Most if not all of the aftermarket heads can get you there without porting. However if you can get an improvement in the quality of airflow (not nessecarily more CFM), or improve the combustion dynamics via porting then go for it.

jonnyk · 10-14-2002, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skyman
I would go with a holley intake (which im selling) ported TFS TW heads or AFR 185's, and a custom ground cam with about 10.5-11:1 compression.

375rwhp is not easy, but its attainable. Your going to need to look for about a 6000-6200rpm peak HP point and definatly a custom tuned chip, plus all the rest of the supporting peices.

Skyler

Sounds about right to me. Match it up with a 75mm throttle body, 36# injectors, a 255 lph pump, and 1 3/4" longtube headers and you should be there.

fiveOguy20 · 10-31-2002, 09:47 PM

what intake an heads u runnin? as far as cams, i'd check into maybe the X-303, specs are 224 duration @.50 on both intake an exhaust an 542 lift intake an exhaust.

dlb1982 · 10-31-2002, 10:19 PM

Well right now im planning on getting tfs track heat heads and have them ported... I also plan on getting the track heat intake (im not sure about getting it ported though?) I am also going with 42lb injectors. And getting a custom cam from anderson ford motorsport.

I will put a 255 lph intake fuel pump... Im not sure if i will need another inline pump closer to the engine or not. My short block is made from scat crank, scat rods, and probe pistons.

So i hope i can make 375 with my 331... I think i shouldn't have much of a problem with that setup?

I already have a chip that can and has been reburnt before.

Any comments?

10-09-2002, 05:33 PM	#1
dlb1982 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Macomb IL Posts: 42	How to reach 375hp I have almost completed a 302/331 stroker short block... But have not choosen a cam yet. I want to hear how to make 375 - 400 hp naturaly asperated. Which cam, heads, intake, and injector size to use... It will be a street car so i can't have anything "too" radical... and 94-95 is a little more sensitive about having good vacuum. Any ideas, thoughts, or personal experiences would be really helpful. oh and has anybody made that much power naturaly asperated on a alphabit cam? __________________ 94 GT (Full length headers, Off Road H Pipe and Flowmasters) MSD Ignition, 75 shot nitrous, cold air induction. 65mm t.b. pulleys and 3:73 gears. everything else STOCK!! 60' = 2.04; 1/4 = 13.9 on street tires dynoed with 87 octane at 240hp 310 lb torch w/out nitrous. Its a pooch but im working on it.

10-09-2002, 09:58 PM	#2
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	Check here http://www.airflowresearch.com/dyno/ford_dyno.htm Most of the AFR engines seem to have used a Comp Cams cam. __________________ 2002 5M GT (99% stock) 1991 5M LX (30% stock) patiently awaiting my satin silver 07 Mach 1, and don't forget the shaker

10-10-2002, 06:04 PM	#5
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	Dunno, its still in pieces, I'm shooting for 450+, I think by the time I get everything together I'll be to old to run it Anywhosit, Do you mean Crane or Comp Cams? Most of the AFR engines ran with a Comp Cams cam. If you look at the engines, they point you in the right direction. 10:1 motor with about .560 lift and 220 duration @ .050 with a 112 degree lobe center (114 deg. seems more computer friendly). That should put you where you want to be. As for carbs, yeah what'evah. Properly set-up, you'll not be giving up anything to a carb (except some heat transfer). Take two engines with identical runner lengths, plenum volumes, and airflow capacity. Guess what? same power. Nothing mystical about. Think your combo through real good, and identify your powerband. Then select parts which complement the plan. Most people do some sort of anti-tuning (which isn't as bad as it sounds). which makes for a broader power band, but with no significant peaks (assuming of course the intake and exhaust is designed to work at different peak rpm.) __________________ 2002 5M GT (99% stock) 1991 5M LX (30% stock) patiently awaiting my satin silver 07 Mach 1, and don't forget the shaker

10-12-2002, 07:39 AM	#7
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	you don't nessecarily have to use a 2.02 head, provided of course you have the nessecary airflow. AFR's page has a 1.90 valve 450 hp 331, but it uses a solid roller cam. Anywhosit, if your after 375 rwhp, Your gonna need about 440 hp at the crank (assuming you are gonna lose something on the order of 18% through the drivetrain) __________________ 2002 5M GT (99% stock) 1991 5M LX (30% stock) patiently awaiting my satin silver 07 Mach 1, and don't forget the shaker

10-12-2002, 08:40 PM	#8
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	Are you looking for RWHP or FWHP If it is the FWHP you are looking for, that is easy. Any alum head, B or E cam and any good intake. Another 60 on top of that will take good planning __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

10-09-2002, 10:52 PM	#3
dlb1982 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Macomb IL Posts: 42	Well i have seen a lot of people have bad luck with Crane. Another thing... all those engines where carborated. A lot easier to make huge amounts of power with a carb. whats some good hp that people are running EFI? I know ford rates there crate motor at 345 fuel injected... so somebody has to be making more then that with a stoker that is fuel injected... Im starting to beleive aluminum ported heads are the way to do it? Any ideas?

10-09-2002, 10:58 PM	#4
dlb1982 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Macomb IL Posts: 42	MiracleMax, What are you putting out with your stroker. I might be able to get some idea of what to expect if i knew what your 347 was putting out with what you got.

10-10-2002, 10:08 PM	#6
dlb1982 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Macomb IL Posts: 42	I went to the place i got my car dyno'd and got some advice today... They said a set of aluminum heads with at least 2.02 and 1.60. Which rules out GT-40. either a 58 - 62cc chamber heads and a cam with somewhere around 5.50 lift with 1.6 roller rockers or 5.20 with 1.7. I think a 225 duration... Well actually for the cam he said i would be better off calling and having one ground for me.. He then showed me a 331 stroker with 375 hp to wheels on his computer from a dyno he had done recently. 36lb injectors and a t-rex fuel pump was needed on that particular stroker to make that. So i know have a good idea how to start anyway.

10-12-2002, 11:15 PM	#9
dlb1982 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Macomb IL Posts: 42	Im looking for RWHP.... I want 375 hp to the back wheels. I would be looking for 18-20% more from the flywheel. Ive got a good idea how to do it... Some decent heads, A little bit of porting and a custom cam Combined with a stroker... i should be close... __________________ 94 GT (Full length headers, Off Road H Pipe and Flowmasters) MSD Ignition, 75 shot nitrous, cold air induction. 65mm t.b. pulleys and 3:73 gears. everything else STOCK!! 60' = 2.04; 1/4 = 13.9 on street tires dynoed with 87 octane at 240hp 310 lb torch w/out nitrous. Its a pooch but im working on it.

10-14-2002, 03:20 AM	#10
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	I would go with a holley intake (which im selling) ported TFS TW heads or AFR 185's, and a custom ground cam with about 10.5-11:1 compression. 375rwhp is not easy, but its attainable. Your going to need to look for about a 6000-6200rpm peak HP point and definatly a custom tuned chip, plus all the rest of the supporting peices. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

10-14-2002, 07:00 AM	#11
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	On a 350 c.i engine the AFR 185's can support upto about 560 hp. (est. hp based on airflow = .2575 x CFM x # of cylinders) Using this as a guide, you'll need about 220 cfm of airflow per cylinder to support 450 hp. (I assume this is in a highly tuned state) If you can find flowbench numbers for intake manifolds, you'll want something that can flow about that per runner (or better yet within 10% of the intake port, I assume on the high side? So more like 110%). The info I have handy on intakes is very sketchy (wish I had some old Super Ford magazines handy ) Most if not all of the aftermarket heads can get you there without porting. However if you can get an improvement in the quality of airflow (not nessecarily more CFM), or improve the combustion dynamics via porting then go for it. __________________ 2002 5M GT (99% stock) 1991 5M LX (30% stock) patiently awaiting my satin silver 07 Mach 1, and don't forget the shaker

10-31-2002, 09:47 PM	#13
fiveOguy20 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 156	what intake an heads u runnin? as far as cams, i'd check into maybe the X-303, specs are 224 duration @.50 on both intake an exhaust an 542 lift intake an exhaust.

10-31-2002, 10:19 PM	#14
dlb1982 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Macomb IL Posts: 42	Well right now im planning on getting tfs track heat heads and have them ported... I also plan on getting the track heat intake (im not sure about getting it ported though?) I am also going with 42lb injectors. And getting a custom cam from anderson ford motorsport. I will put a 255 lph intake fuel pump... Im not sure if i will need another inline pump closer to the engine or not. My short block is made from scat crank, scat rods, and probe pistons. So i hope i can make 375 with my 331... I think i shouldn't have much of a problem with that setup? I already have a chip that can and has been reburnt before. Any comments?

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