HP gains from electric water pump?

exgmguy · 09-19-2001, 07:37 PM

I am pulling out all the stops to add another 2 mph to my trap speed in my quest for a 10 second timeslip. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with electric water pump drives.

I went with the Moroso electric water pump drive kit, and at the same time removed my power steering pump. I probably would not have went with the electric drive if I drove the car daily, but seeing that I only drive it in nice weather, to the track, etc,.. I figured it would be o.k.

I don't see why removing the parasitic drag of the power steering pump and the water pump should not give me what I am looking for. Any opinions????

------------------
1988 Mustang GT
11.8 @ 123 (7/14/01)
11.5 @ 120 (9/14/01)
1992 BadAzz Wrangler
1993 Explorer

See my car at: www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?179

PKRWUD · 09-19-2001, 09:07 PM

Other than an engaged A/C compressor, the P/S & the water pump are the two toughest. Should make a very noticable difference. Do you have a windage tray? Hell, if you've got $1k, dry sump it! BIG difference then! Not to mention, if your engine does grenade, it's alot less mess to clean up!

Sorry.

Long day.

You'll see a difference, and if you are serious about getting to the 10's, think dry sump.

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

WADS56 · 09-20-2001, 01:43 AM

I noticed a change when I went to a electric pump and ditched the power steering. Picked up .3 but I also did some suspension stuff at the same time.

------------------
79 hatch w/ NA 347,stage 2 Canfield heads, out of the box Victor 5.0 intake, solid roller cam, Aeromotive fuel system, proshifted TKO II.MY CAR http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/...splay.cgi?1288
93lx all stock + tremec

PWR_RYD93 · 09-20-2001, 09:33 AM

You'll pick up just over 1 HP switching to an electric water pump. The idea behind using one isn't about regaining power, it's about being able to circulate coolant with the engine turned off. With an electric water pump and an electric fan, you can cool down the engine pretty fast between rounds.

Ditching the power steering pump is good for a few horsepower. So between those two, you're NOT going to pick up 2 mph in the 1/4 mile. Unless you're a serious bracket racer, save your money for something else. JMO.

PKRWUD, are you seriously recommending he switch to a dry sump oiling system??? It must have been a really long day for you!

------------------
Craig
Supercharged 93 GT
Basically stock 93 Cobra
"I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol!"

PKRWUD · 09-20-2001, 12:19 PM

Craig-
Actually it's been a long two weeks. My foot/ankle is busted, and the pain makes it hard to sleep for more than 3 or 4 hours in a row.

If he's ready to get into the 10's, why not? Dry sump systems are killer. They provide better oiling, with less resistance. I know they are more important in every other type of racing than they are in drags, but they still cut time.

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

PWR_RYD93 · 09-20-2001, 02:58 PM

I fully agree, dry sumps are killer and they do greatly reduce windage losses and improve oiling. But the cost to do a dry sump system "correctly" can get pretty costly (a bit more than $1k in my experience). The money could be better spent on other "go fast" parts.

I typically look at what the top NMRA racers are doing when I'm gauging whether something is worth it or not. For instance, the EFI Renegade and Street Outlaw guys are not allowed to run dry sumps, and their cars are flying (8 and 9 second cars)!

------------------
Craig
Supercharged 93 GT
Basically stock 93 Cobra
"I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol!"

exgmguy · 09-21-2001, 02:57 PM

I was figuring since underdriven pulleys free up around 10-15 horsepower, then removing every crank driven accessory except the alternator has to be worth another 10-20 ponies over the pulleys alone. No?

PWR_RYD93 · 09-21-2001, 04:28 PM

The majority of the horsepower gained with underdrive pullies is due to not turning the mechanical fan at 6000 rpm. The power required to turn a fan goes up by the cube of the speed increase (Affinity Law). Even though there is a fan clutch reducing the fan speed, the clutch itself is consuming power (slipping = heat = power loss).

------------------
Craig
Supercharged 93 GT
Basically stock 93 Cobra
"I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol!"

Skyman · 09-21-2001, 10:51 PM

Rob- I have heard water pumps use upto 20hp at 5000-6000rpm. Don't know whats true or not, but it seems to me they would be quite a bit to drive.

Goto Fordmuscle.com, they were advertizing a electric water pump there a while back. I believe, but am not sure, that they tested it and got something like .2-.3 sec from it.

I am going to buy one when I get the cash.
http://fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/...tricwaterpump/

Theres the link.

Skyler

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406-
TFS TW Heads, E-303, Edelbrock intake, 70mm TB, 73mm MAF, 24lb injectors, 1 5/8 shorties, Off Road H, 3 Chamber flows, Jaz Race seats, Back seat removed, sub-frames, Roll Cage, and a 80 shot of N20.
12.54@107.4 Motor
332RWHP, 350rwtq

Skyman · 09-24-2001, 03:16 AM

Did u check it out?

Sky

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406-
TFS TW Heads, E-303, Edelbrock intake, 70mm TB, 73mm MAF, 24lb injectors, 1 5/8 shorties, Off Road H, 3 Chamber flows, Jaz Race seats, Back seat removed, sub-frames, Roll Cage, and a 80 shot of N20.
12.54@107.4 Motor
332RWHP, 350rwtq

PWR_RYD93 · 09-24-2001, 11:31 AM

There is NO WAY that a 6-rib serpentine belt (low tension system) could drive a load even close to 20 horsepower. Especially since it's the flat side of the belt that rides on the w/p pulley.

------------------
Craig
Supercharged 93 GT
Basically stock 93 Cobra
"I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol!"

exgmguy · 09-26-2001, 04:38 AM

Sky, I just got my computer fixed so I have not been online in a few days. I'll check that link out today.

Also I am going tot he track this weekend, so i'll see how much speed I pick up. That should be as good an indicator as anything right??

09-27-2001, 10:09 PM

exgmguy you should have went with the CSI electric water pump. A couple of my buddy's have the Moroso elec wp and they don't keep the car cool enough (not enough flow).

Some other of my friends have CSI wp and they work great for limited street driving. The Moroso is only good for cooling down in the pits.

By the way are you going to Alternative Auto's track day at Ubly Dragway. I will be there (without my car unfortunately) with my buddy's car, my boss's car, and my buddy's lightning on spray (trying to get it into the 11's or low 12's it already ran 12.39 at 112).

Jason

smokedchevy · 09-28-2001, 02:46 AM

It only makes a 1hp difference? I really have no idea, but I was going to buy one for my bracket car. I thought it would have freed up 10 horses or so. I'm getting one anyways cause it's nice to run the coolant with the car off.

------------------
92 GT, 4:10 gears, centerforce clutch, 6# powerdyne blower, bbk h-pipe, flowmasters

09-19-2001, 07:37 PM	#1
exgmguy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Utica, Michigan Posts: 2,631	HP gains from electric water pump? I am pulling out all the stops to add another 2 mph to my trap speed in my quest for a 10 second timeslip. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with electric water pump drives. I went with the Moroso electric water pump drive kit, and at the same time removed my power steering pump. I probably would not have went with the electric drive if I drove the car daily, but seeing that I only drive it in nice weather, to the track, etc,.. I figured it would be o.k. I don't see why removing the parasitic drag of the power steering pump and the water pump should not give me what I am looking for. Any opinions???? ------------------ 1988 Mustang GT 11.8 @ 123 (7/14/01) 11.5 @ 120 (9/14/01) 1992 BadAzz Wrangler 1993 Explorer See my car at: www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?179

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09-19-2001, 09:07 PM	#2
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Other than an engaged A/C compressor, the P/S & the water pump are the two toughest. Should make a very noticable difference. Do you have a windage tray? Hell, if you've got $1k, dry sump it! BIG difference then! Not to mention, if your engine does grenade, it's alot less mess to clean up! Sorry. Long day. You'll see a difference, and if you are serious about getting to the 10's, think dry sump. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

09-20-2001, 01:43 AM	#3
WADS56 gear banger Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: CHICAGO Posts: 1,144	I noticed a change when I went to a electric pump and ditched the power steering. Picked up .3 but I also did some suspension stuff at the same time. ------------------ 79 hatch w/ NA 347,stage 2 Canfield heads, out of the box Victor 5.0 intake, solid roller cam, Aeromotive fuel system, proshifted TKO II.MY CAR http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/...splay.cgi?1288 93lx all stock + tremec

09-20-2001, 09:33 AM	#4
PWR_RYD93 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: IL Posts: 1,155	You'll pick up just over 1 HP switching to an electric water pump. The idea behind using one isn't about regaining power, it's about being able to circulate coolant with the engine turned off. With an electric water pump and an electric fan, you can cool down the engine pretty fast between rounds. Ditching the power steering pump is good for a few horsepower. So between those two, you're NOT going to pick up 2 mph in the 1/4 mile. Unless you're a serious bracket racer, save your money for something else. JMO. PKRWUD, are you seriously recommending he switch to a dry sump oiling system??? It must have been a really long day for you! ------------------ Craig Supercharged 93 GT Basically stock 93 Cobra "I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol!"

09-20-2001, 12:19 PM	#5
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Craig- Actually it's been a long two weeks. My foot/ankle is busted, and the pain makes it hard to sleep for more than 3 or 4 hours in a row. If he's ready to get into the 10's, why not? Dry sump systems are killer. They provide better oiling, with less resistance. I know they are more important in every other type of racing than they are in drags, but they still cut time. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

09-20-2001, 02:58 PM	#6
PWR_RYD93 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: IL Posts: 1,155	I fully agree, dry sumps are killer and they do greatly reduce windage losses and improve oiling. But the cost to do a dry sump system "correctly" can get pretty costly (a bit more than $1k in my experience). The money could be better spent on other "go fast" parts. I typically look at what the top NMRA racers are doing when I'm gauging whether something is worth it or not. For instance, the EFI Renegade and Street Outlaw guys are not allowed to run dry sumps, and their cars are flying (8 and 9 second cars)! ------------------ Craig Supercharged 93 GT Basically stock 93 Cobra "I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol!"

09-21-2001, 02:57 PM	#7
exgmguy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Utica, Michigan Posts: 2,631	I was figuring since underdriven pulleys free up around 10-15 horsepower, then removing every crank driven accessory except the alternator has to be worth another 10-20 ponies over the pulleys alone. No?

09-21-2001, 04:28 PM	#8
PWR_RYD93 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: IL Posts: 1,155	The majority of the horsepower gained with underdrive pullies is due to not turning the mechanical fan at 6000 rpm. The power required to turn a fan goes up by the cube of the speed increase (Affinity Law). Even though there is a fan clutch reducing the fan speed, the clutch itself is consuming power (slipping = heat = power loss). ------------------ Craig Supercharged 93 GT Basically stock 93 Cobra "I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol!"

09-21-2001, 10:51 PM	#9
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Rob- I have heard water pumps use upto 20hp at 5000-6000rpm. Don't know whats true or not, but it seems to me they would be quite a bit to drive. Goto Fordmuscle.com, they were advertizing a electric water pump there a while back. I believe, but am not sure, that they tested it and got something like .2-.3 sec from it. I am going to buy one when I get the cash. http://fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/...tricwaterpump/ Theres the link. Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS TW Heads, E-303, Edelbrock intake, 70mm TB, 73mm MAF, 24lb injectors, 1 5/8 shorties, Off Road H, 3 Chamber flows, Jaz Race seats, Back seat removed, sub-frames, Roll Cage, and a 80 shot of N20. 12.54@107.4 Motor *332RWHP, 350rwtq*

09-24-2001, 03:16 AM	#10
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Did u check it out? Sky ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS TW Heads, E-303, Edelbrock intake, 70mm TB, 73mm MAF, 24lb injectors, 1 5/8 shorties, Off Road H, 3 Chamber flows, Jaz Race seats, Back seat removed, sub-frames, Roll Cage, and a 80 shot of N20. 12.54@107.4 Motor *332RWHP, 350rwtq*

09-24-2001, 11:31 AM	#11
PWR_RYD93 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: IL Posts: 1,155	There is NO WAY that a 6-rib serpentine belt (low tension system) could drive a load even close to 20 horsepower. Especially since it's the flat side of the belt that rides on the w/p pulley. ------------------ Craig Supercharged 93 GT Basically stock 93 Cobra "I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol!"

09-26-2001, 04:38 AM	#12
exgmguy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Utica, Michigan Posts: 2,631	Sky, I just got my computer fixed so I have not been online in a few days. I'll check that link out today. Also I am going tot he track this weekend, so i'll see how much speed I pick up. That should be as good an indicator as anything right??

09-27-2001, 10:09 PM	#13
88GT5.013.02 Guest Posts: n/a	exgmguy you should have went with the CSI electric water pump. A couple of my buddy's have the Moroso elec wp and they don't keep the car cool enough (not enough flow). Some other of my friends have CSI wp and they work great for limited street driving. The Moroso is only good for cooling down in the pits. By the way are you going to Alternative Auto's track day at Ubly Dragway. I will be there (without my car unfortunately) with my buddy's car, my boss's car, and my buddy's lightning on spray (trying to get it into the 11's or low 12's it already ran 12.39 at 112). Jason

09-28-2001, 02:46 AM	#14
smokedchevy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: ventura,CA Posts: 438	It only makes a 1hp difference? I really have no idea, but I was going to buy one for my bracket car. I thought it would have freed up 10 horses or so. I'm getting one anyways cause it's nice to run the coolant with the car off. ------------------ 92 GT, 4:10 gears, centerforce clutch, 6# powerdyne blower, bbk h-pipe, flowmasters