Overheating at rest

blown5.5 · 12-22-2004, 09:46 AM

Agghhh that age old problem of overheating. If I sit for more than 3-4 minutes in warm weather the temp gauge starts it's migration to meltdown. While this would appear to be an easy problem to fix, it's solution has eluded me for over two years. Currently the car is running a FoMoCo 8500-C 3 row aluminum radiator (3 times the surface of the original), a Meziere 55GPM Electric Water Pump, a Black Magic 15in (2800CFM) fan, and Propylene Glycol Coolant (far better heat transfer). The fact that it occurs at rest usually points to a flow problem (air or water), however with the current setup it probably flows more than the stock items did at 40MPH. I don't believe there's an obstruction in the block as it was set up professionally (DSS short block). The Glycol is not contaminated as the block has been water free since it was set up. I installed a 140 Amp alternator and oversize battery, so the juice to the fan and water pump doesn't drop as the engine idles. I have tried several different combo's for thermostat (180 - 160 - none) and will try a restrictor plate as soon as Jeg's gets around to sending it. The only other non-stock item is the heater is disconnected. The bypass hose doesn't look kinked, but I'm having one made up that is a perfect half circle of the proper size. I'm hoping one of you can think of something I've overlooked. It's really embarrassing to sit in line for registration at the drags and have to constantly fire up and shut down the engine while moving forward, but it's either that or push the car forward which is worse -- Aggghhh

GhettoPop · 12-22-2004, 04:00 PM

first off, it that the stock gauge? cuz they suck.....

i have no experiance w/ Propylene Glycol Coolant so I dont know if that could be a problem.......

could the fan be too small for your application? maybe a duel fan? or maybe a pusher and puller fan, one on each side of the radiator? what type of engine u trying to cool? must be serious.........

fiveohpatrol · 12-23-2004, 09:02 AM

i second the stock guage question...

Also, do you have the proper gage wire running your fan and your water pump? If the wire is too small, it won't carry as much current and your fan/pump won't turn as fast.

Also, what diameter is the fan? Are you running a shroud too?

Have you ever thought of just putting a stock waterpump in place just to see if it makes a difference?

good luck,

-Drew

KiltedBanshees93GT · 12-23-2004, 09:52 AM

I was thinking fan, ever put the stock mechanical one back on? Bonus on the gauge though, hadnt thought of that.

J

grey88gt · 12-23-2004, 08:44 PM

Programmable Management System , Is it running to lean at idle ?

grey88gt · 12-23-2004, 08:55 PM

One other note is the timing set slow, My old carbed 460 will run about 20-30 deg hotter in the summer if the timing is to slow and will get hot at an idle. Thats with a 4 core super duty radiator, and big 8 blade fan. With the timing set at 14-16 deg it never heats up. Just trying to help here, I may be totaly off here.

Hawaiian5.0 · 12-25-2004, 07:18 PM

I think it's the electric water pump. It could be pumping your coolant mixture too fast through the radiator without sufficient cooling time. Just my .02

fiveohpatrol · 12-25-2004, 09:17 PM

pumping water "too fast" will not overheat an engine. If that were true, then it would be going just as fast through the engine, and not getting as much "heating time"

The most effective means of heat transfer is convection, where there is a fluid or gas moving over a surface, and the faster it goes, the BETTER the heat transfer. Since the fluid in this case would be moving faster, it would effectively be removing more heat.

Hozer 88GTConv · 12-26-2004, 08:16 PM

Absolutely the fan.
The fact that your motor is fine at speed vs. at idle where the only difference is airflow over the engine.
Your fan simply isn't moving enough air and/or it's not shrouded.
My .02
Good luck

blown5.5 · 12-27-2004, 05:35 PM

Well, I think the votes are in. I thought 2800 CFM was a lot and apparently it isn't. If I could I'd install the Lincoln Mark VIII electric fan (5000 CFM). Unfortunately it's 6 inches thick and I'm working with 3 1/2. The next best I could find is a Derale 16928 (dual 13in at 4000 CFM). This is most likely the route I'll take unless someone knows of one that is as thin 3.19in and higher CFM. I want to thank all the folks who were kind enough to provide suggestions. I'll let you know how it worked out the next 90* day.....

Hozer 88GTConv · 12-27-2004, 05:58 PM

I have a brand new Ford electric fan that I have had for over a year in the garage that I'm willing to let go of. I'll get you the part number if you want.
Good luck...

Ackbar00 · 12-29-2004, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawaiian5.0

I think it's the electric water pump. It could be pumping your coolant mixture too fast through the radiator without sufficient cooling time. Just my .02

I think this, but in reverse. The electric pumps usually dont flow what the belt ones did. I think, you get a nice belt one, it will go away.

Here are some other topics on overheating:

http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/...ht=overheating

http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/...ht=overheating

http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/...ht=overheating

http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/...ht=overheating

12-22-2004, 09:46 AM	#1
blown5.5 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Philly Suburbs, PA Posts: 14	Overheating at rest Agghhh that age old problem of overheating. If I sit for more than 3-4 minutes in warm weather the temp gauge starts it's migration to meltdown. While this would appear to be an easy problem to fix, it's solution has eluded me for over two years. Currently the car is running a FoMoCo 8500-C 3 row aluminum radiator (3 times the surface of the original), a Meziere 55GPM Electric Water Pump, a Black Magic 15in (2800CFM) fan, and Propylene Glycol Coolant (far better heat transfer). The fact that it occurs at rest usually points to a flow problem (air or water), however with the current setup it probably flows more than the stock items did at 40MPH. I don't believe there's an obstruction in the block as it was set up professionally (DSS short block). The Glycol is not contaminated as the block has been water free since it was set up. I installed a 140 Amp alternator and oversize battery, so the juice to the fan and water pump doesn't drop as the engine idles. I have tried several different combo's for thermostat (180 - 160 - none) and will try a restrictor plate as soon as Jeg's gets around to sending it. The only other non-stock item is the heater is disconnected. The bypass hose doesn't look kinked, but I'm having one made up that is a perfect half circle of the proper size. I'm hoping one of you can think of something I've overlooked. It's really embarrassing to sit in line for registration at the drags and have to constantly fire up and shut down the engine while moving forward, but it's either that or push the car forward which is worse -- Aggghhh __________________ 92LX - D.S.S. 331 Stroker – T/F Heads Stage I porting - 75mm MAF & TB – AFM Power Pipe - AFM Programmable Management System - Vortech S-Trim, 10 Rib Belt - Holley 50# Injectors - Vortech Maxflow Fuel System - MSD Billet Distributor & 6A Ignition Module - Meziere Electric Water Pump - Black Magic 15in Fan - Evans Propylene Glycol Coolant - Tremec TKO - Centerforce Clutch & Pressure Plate - Lakewood Scatter Shield - FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft - Eibach Drag Launch Coil Spring Set – Battle boxes - Strange axles & C-clip eliminators - Powertrax Locker, 3.73 Gears

12-22-2004, 04:00 PM	#2
GhettoPop Gimme a Drink! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 694	Re: Overheating at rest first off, it that the stock gauge? cuz they suck..... i have no experiance w/ Propylene Glycol Coolant so I dont know if that could be a problem....... could the fan be too small for your application? maybe a duel fan? or maybe a pusher and puller fan, one on each side of the radiator? what type of engine u trying to cool? must be serious......... __________________ 1990 GT,stock T-5,K&N w/o air silencer,March underdrives,FMS wires,timing@14*,PA Perf 130amp alt,Steeda Tri-Ax Shifter,Steeda adj quadrant/clutch cable/firewall adj,Centerforce II clutch,o/r x-pipe,Magnaflow SS catback,g-load brace, subframes,Bilstein struts/shocks,Autometer gauges, 136k and running strong!

12-23-2004, 09:02 AM	#3
fiveohpatrol I'd rather be basketweaving Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,551	Re: Overheating at rest i second the stock guage question... Also, do you have the proper gage wire running your fan and your water pump? If the wire is too small, it won't carry as much current and your fan/pump won't turn as fast. Also, what diameter is the fan? Are you running a shroud too? Have you ever thought of just putting a stock waterpump in place just to see if it makes a difference? good luck, -Drew __________________ NMRA O/C 9516 NA pumpgas stickshift 347 10.65@125.6, 6.73@100, 1.41 60ft

12-23-2004, 09:52 AM	#4
KiltedBanshees93GT Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Pigeon Forge Tn Posts: 611	Re: Overheating at rest I was thinking fan, ever put the stock mechanical one back on? Bonus on the gauge though, hadnt thought of that. J __________________ ____________ '66 Mustang Coupe- AKA "Lenore" on disability for a (long) bit '93 GT Mostly stock AKA "Fawkes" Rice Haters Club Member #239 "I find your lack of faith...disturbing." "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." H. L. Mencken

12-23-2004, 08:44 PM	#5
grey88gt Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Skiatook, Oklahoma Posts: 193	Re: Overheating at rest Programmable Management System , Is it running to lean at idle ?

12-23-2004, 08:55 PM	#6
grey88gt Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Skiatook, Oklahoma Posts: 193	Re: Overheating at rest One other note is the timing set slow, My old carbed 460 will run about 20-30 deg hotter in the summer if the timing is to slow and will get hot at an idle. Thats with a 4 core super duty radiator, and big 8 blade fan. With the timing set at 14-16 deg it never heats up. Just trying to help here, I may be totaly off here.

12-25-2004, 07:18 PM	#7
Hawaiian5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hawaii Posts: 8	Re: Overheating at rest I think it's the electric water pump. It could be pumping your coolant mixture too fast through the radiator without sufficient cooling time. Just my .02 __________________ 92 Calypso LX 5 spd, 6# P-1SC2, 3.73's, GT-40 upper/lower, BBK 65MM TB, Pro-M ATI Blowthrough MAF, 30#'s, Edelbrock 6037's, F-cam, 1.6 rockers, BBK Ceramic shorties, BBK O/R H, 2-chambers, MSD 6al, blaster coil, 255 in-tank, upper/lower control arms, subframes, Weld fat and skinnies. 11.86 @ 117 on old dry Nitrous set-up (100 shot) spinning 1st and 2nd. Only 1 run, no bar, got da boot

12-25-2004, 09:17 PM	#8
fiveohpatrol I'd rather be basketweaving Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,551	Re: Overheating at rest pumping water "too fast" will not overheat an engine. If that were true, then it would be going just as fast through the engine, and not getting as much "heating time" The most effective means of heat transfer is convection, where there is a fluid or gas moving over a surface, and the faster it goes, the BETTER the heat transfer. Since the fluid in this case would be moving faster, it would effectively be removing more heat. __________________ NMRA O/C 9516 NA pumpgas stickshift 347 10.65@125.6, 6.73@100, 1.41 60ft

12-26-2004, 08:16 PM	#9
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	Re: Overheating at rest Absolutely the fan. The fact that your motor is fine at speed vs. at idle where the only difference is airflow over the engine. Your fan simply isn't moving enough air and/or it's not shrouded. My .02 Good luck __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

12-27-2004, 05:35 PM	#10
blown5.5 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Philly Suburbs, PA Posts: 14	Re: Overheating at rest Well, I think the votes are in. I thought 2800 CFM was a lot and apparently it isn't. If I could I'd install the Lincoln Mark VIII electric fan (5000 CFM). Unfortunately it's 6 inches thick and I'm working with 3 1/2. The next best I could find is a Derale 16928 (dual 13in at 4000 CFM). This is most likely the route I'll take unless someone knows of one that is as thin 3.19in and higher CFM. I want to thank all the folks who were kind enough to provide suggestions. I'll let you know how it worked out the next 90* day..... __________________ 92LX - D.S.S. 331 Stroker – T/F Heads Stage I porting - 75mm MAF & TB – AFM Power Pipe - AFM Programmable Management System - Vortech S-Trim, 10 Rib Belt - Holley 50# Injectors - Vortech Maxflow Fuel System - MSD Billet Distributor & 6A Ignition Module - Meziere Electric Water Pump - Black Magic 15in Fan - Evans Propylene Glycol Coolant - Tremec TKO - Centerforce Clutch & Pressure Plate - Lakewood Scatter Shield - FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft - Eibach Drag Launch Coil Spring Set – Battle boxes - Strange axles & C-clip eliminators - Powertrax Locker, 3.73 Gears

12-27-2004, 05:58 PM	#11
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	Re: Overheating at rest I have a brand new Ford electric fan that I have had for over a year in the garage that I'm willing to let go of. I'll get you the part number if you want. Good luck... __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

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