Catalytic Converters and the EPA.

[Tony Frank]

I believe that catalytic converters were required on all cars manufactured in the U.S. starting in 1975, not the mid-80's

thats not an opinion, he believs that she is wrong, therefore, would now warrant a perfect grade

There's this thing called freedom of speech.

are you serious??

Second, if you don't know what Mr 5.0's style is by now, you need to spend some more time on the boards.

ok i do spend time here, and yes i do know his style, and that is a whole new thread on how he treats people........
he may think of it as being helpful, but trust me im not alone when i say he offends some of us.

Come on people....this is a general discussion board. Let's allow general discussion.

i agree, but i have had certain instances where mr. 5.0 has jumped on my case, and disrespected me and made me feel like a dumbass.......thats my problem.

[Unit 5302]

You know, as I read on and on, most of what I saw was kinda off topic. Not that I would never go off topic on a subject, but there sure has been a lot of stating the same thing over, and over.

Actually, my biggest problem as I read this wasn't opinions, it was the sheer lack of respect to thoroughly READ what was posted before going off into a tizzy. This would apply to silver_pilate, and Ponycar_302. Had you bothered to adaquately READ what was written, you would have noticed what Mustangbelle306 wrote into her second post. Guess what it was? Resources. That tells me right there that you didn't read what was said, and you shouldn't be commenting on anything posted. You stepped into a heated debate without all the information, and with a great deal of class, she didn't point that out and rip you a new one like I'm doing right now. If you're going to disagree, please try to at least read the entire post of the person you're disagreeing with.

I would agree the EPA is populated with Eco-Nazi's, and they really do hate the automobile. Most of them see the numbers they want, use a flawed method of calculating data, and release a finding that is totally false.

Anybody who would argue a point made about internal combustion engines being machines that pollute is a wack job. Anybody who would argue they are the end of mankind, is an equal wack job. Catalytic converters are kinda unnecessary if you know much about today's engines. They run VERY clean, which leaves very little for the cats to do. Cats correct problems that haven't much existed since the inception of multiport fuel injection engines. As time has gone on, cars have become FAR more fuel efficient, and way cleaner. The amount of unburned fuel in the exhaust is pretty minimal. Most well tuned cars would probably pass inspection without any cats at all. I laugh at the fact most emissions control devices are meant to perform at engine idle, where the car spends little of it's time. I guess I'm a little off topic now, on the technical issues surrounding pollution and cars altogether.

Anyway. I think I can say this with certainty. Mr 5 0 can usually fend for himself just fine, and last I checked, he's quite good at it. While you "stealing his thunder" isn't really annoying to me, the constant leg humping you do on all of his posts is rather old, silver_pilate. If you have an opinion, feel free to state it, but restating what Mr 5 0 thinks is right, I agree with Mr 5 0, Mr 5 0 is my hero, I love Mr 5 0 makes me wonder if you have a poster of his avatar over your bed that you consider to be your prized possession.

Back to the real topic. Good paper. I agree with data and ideas being bent to reflect a certain point of view, especially when they come from a government.

[Ponycar_302]

2nd, Mr 5.0 you said you give the paper an A, then you said you had a problem with the premise......then a long list of things of things that you say are wrong or you disagree with, therefore if you were the teacher, with the list given of complaints, that wouldnt be an A.

Personnal opinions should never be included for a grade on a paper. He said it was a well written piece, and as "teacher" he gave it an "A." As "friend" he didn't agree.

THAT IS WHAT THE PAPER IS ABOUT. THINKING FOR YOURSELF.

No it isn't. The subject of a paper is revealed in the first sentence. Your subject and conclusion are two different topics.

What type of cat causes pollution when cold, attempts to work when hot, and is hazardous to your health? If you own an automobile, you most likely have one in your exhaust system. A catalytic converter (commonly referred to as a “cat”) is a pollution-control device that has been required on most vehicles in the USA since the mid 1980s.

That is your topic. You only covered one of your topic points in the body of the paper; the health effects. You failed to cover how it causes pollution WHEN COLD and how it ATTEMPTS TO WORK WHEN HOT.

Although the automotive industry has come a long way in producing more environmentally sound products, much improvement is still required in order to secure a better future. Now that we know the problem, what do we do about it? As a citizen you should be concerned about your environment, and as a consumer (emissions equipment accounts for 2% of a car’s MSRP) you should insist on an effective product for your money. Essentially, the catalytic converter was an attempt to trade one evil for a lesser-known evil (smog for health issues and global warming). As we learn more about the effects of our technological advances, we must continue to improve our preventative techniques, and the public must be part of that forward movement.

That is your conclusion. At no point was the premis of becoming an active part of your future mentioned in the topic. Your paper is non sequitur; the conclusion does not follow the premises.

so please excuse the colloquial writing,

It was not a colloquial piece; it was a formal piece. For instance, you described what a cat was in simple terms so anyone could understand. In colloquial, or informal, writing you would have said it was a round thingy filled with some sort of chemicals and such.


I have a BS/MS PHD in Critical Thinking and Writing. For a highschool piece this is a good paper. Let us know what you get on it. I know what you originally intended with it. When I answered I was just expanding on the subject, as I am now. I never meant to offend you, Belle.

Oh, and nobody wears heels to work on a car. J/K

[Tony Frank]

the constant leg humping you do on all of his posts is rather old, silver_pilate. If you have an opinion, feel free to state it,

HA HA HA HA HA HA LMFAO

[Ponycar_302]

You know, as I read on and on, most of what I saw was kinda off topic. Not that I would never go off topic on a subject, but there sure has been a lot of stating the same thing over, and over.

Not neccessarily; most of what was written was an expansion of the topic in one way or the other, either by Belle, or someone else. Even you got off topic. I read everything written. What I wrote is called constructive criticism. She claimed it was interesting in the first line of the post. Interesting to whom? Were we simply supposed to read it and expound on the greatness of the article? If so, she should have said that. (No offense, Belle.)

the constant leg humping you do on all of his posts is rather old,

I seem to recall how you jumped all over someone who started a thread about their post count. As I recall, that is a big gripe of Belle's too. Who is leg-humping whom? Here is the thread for reference: Post Counts You have to be the rudest person on this board-- or at least you were until I got here.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by Mustangbelle306

OMG...you people don't even bother to read long posts do you?

Do you?

I'll pass on both any further comments (I know when I've overstayed my welcome on a thread) and the pointless arguments some would attempt to pursue over some alleged grievience or other they wish to avenge or whine about. Life is too short and frankly, I have other venues in which to post and debate more serious issues that concern me.

Again, sorry if you feel your thread was misunderstood. It happens, but comment is what we do on this forum, it's no one's private editorial page, and that includes me.

I have no intention of trying to be everyone's buddy and agree with things I don't agree with or let inane statements (no, not anything you've posted) stand unchallenged. No apology.

I won't engage in flame wars or get overly personal but I will state what I think and defend it on any issue I feel strongly about. I expect other members to do the same, whithout resorting to name-calling and other pointless types of flaming.

This one is getting stale anyway but I wanted to make one final attempt to convince you that there was no intention on my part to be confrontational or argue unnecessarily.

I attempted to make my points rationally and in a way that might encourage interest. It would seem that I've at least partially failed. Better luck next time.

[Mustangbelle306]

Originally posted by Ponycar_302

No it isn't. The subject of a paper is revealed in the first sentence. Your subject and conclusion are two different topics.

That is your topic. You only covered one of your topic points in the body of the paper; the health effects. You failed to cover how it causes pollution WHEN COLD and how it ATTEMPTS TO WORK WHEN HOT.

That is your conclusion. At no point was the premis of becoming an active part of your future mentioned in the topic. Your paper is non sequitur; the conclusion does not follow the premises.

It was not a colloquial piece; it was a formal piece. For instance, you described what a cat was in simple terms so anyone could understand. In colloquial, or informal, writing you would have said it was a round thingy filled with some sort of chemicals and such.

I have a BS/MS PHD in Critical Thinking and Writing. For a highschool piece this is a good paper. Let us know what you get on it. I know what you originally intended with it. When I answered I was just expanding on the subject, as I am now. I never meant to offend you, Belle.

Oh, and nobody wears heels to work on a car. J/K

All of you observe: THIS is where I get defensive.

I said it was for a ******* newspaper. So, I'm supposed to write an editorial, send it to a newspaper, and call it a ******* round thingy? That's retarded, and I would NEVER refer to ANYTHING in that manner, even in email. That's vague and a waste of time...pretty shitty advice coming from an individual that has obviously gone to school in this area...

Do me a favor, from now on, come on out and insult me bluntly, instead of being cute by calling my work "high school" quality. This is a pretty elementary method of pissing me off, and I'm embarassed to say, it was quite effective.

I'm obviously enrolled in a university, since I referred to my instructor as a PROFESSOR. If you knew me at all, you would have understood that the REASON I referred to it as colloquial is because I am a college student that happens to be an outstanding writer, and this piece was in no way indicative of my usual work.

Furthermore, I was taught in both high school and college that it is extremely poor form to merely restate your thesis. The entire point of a paper is to reach conclusion, correct? Yes! So MY conclusion is that the public can be involved in the products that they are FORCED to purchase (emissions equipment on vehicles) and that EPA regulations on emissions are CRAP because its another round of problems. That was derived from my body paragraphs.

You ARE correct that I did not cover the hot/cold issue, and truthfully I did not realize that until now. I slapped it together, and I had started writing a paragraph explaining how the "supposed" pollution is almost all emitted when the car is cold, and minute amounts overall. I suppose I got lazy and forgot to insert it in the paper, and something that I should have caught during revision.

Ok, I'm done.

[Mustangbelle306]

Originally posted by Mr 5 0


Do you?

Splendid. Another example. If you'd care to scroll back a few posts, I already acknowledged that I cannot control what others post, and that is life. I completely understood your explanation of your intentions, and I thank you for taking the time to do so.

In fact, I would be done with this post as well, if some ******* hadn't brought my writing style and quality *(completely unrelated) into the discussion. I'm tempted to delete it actually, because I feel like an *** for even falling for it.

Belle ~ out.

[Ponycar_302]

So, I'm supposed to write an editorial, send it to a newspaper, and call it a ******* round thingy? That's retarded, and I would NEVER refer to ANYTHING in that manner, even in email. That's vague and a waste of time...pretty shitty advice coming from an individual that has obviously gone to school in this area...

That is the point I was trying to make. YOU said it was a colloquial piece and it wasn't; it was a formal piece.

Do me a favor, from now on, come on out and insult me bluntly, instead of being cute by calling my work "high school" quality.

Sorry, I seriously thought you were a highschool senior.

Furthermore, I was taught in both high school and college that it is extremely poor form to merely restate your thesis. The entire point of a paper is to reach conclusion, correct?

Yes.... a conclusion which supports your opening paragraph. You veered off topic in your conclusion.

I'm obviously enrolled in a university, since I referred to my instructor as a PROFESSOR.

Your professor should have caught the things I did. Out of curiousity, what school do you attend and what year are you in?

if some ******* hadn't brought my writing style and quality

I have to agree with you there.

[Mustangbelle306]

Oh yes, let me quickly post my school name so everyone can be sure to not send their children, in light of their obviously HORRIBLE English program.

VIRGINIA TECH!! Quick!! Write it down before you make the same mistake I did!

I'm flabbergasted at your remarks...saying I am in high school? What college I go to? You are in the same boat as me for not showing your age. THAT is high school ****...There have been several people on this site that have commented in threads that they are surprised to discover I am 20 years old. Guess you proved em' wrong, tiger. Congrats!

Just the fact that you are viewing a presumed submission to a paper as a standard 5 paragraph "formal" writing piece makes it clear you are attempting (and yes, succeeding) at invoking a heated response from me. Many times I have incited arguments unintentionally with my posts, I certainly would not purposely set out to do so...I think you'd fit in better at the Corral.

[Unit 5302]

Originally posted by Ponycar_302
No it isn't. The subject of a paper is revealed in the first sentence. Your subject and conclusion are two different topics.

That is your topic. You only covered one of your topic points in the body of the paper; the health effects. You failed to cover how it causes pollution WHEN COLD and how it ATTEMPTS TO WORK WHEN HOT.

Lemme dumb it down for you there, Einstein. When she was talking about catalytic converters producting nitrous oxide, and other harmful chemicals, that would be considered pollution.

Pollution: The act or process of polluting or the state of being polluted, especially the contamination of soil, water, or the atmosphere by the discharge of harmful substances.

Originally posted by Ponycar_302:
It was not a colloquial piece; it was a formal piece. For instance, you described what a cat was in simple terms so anyone could understand. In colloquial, or informal, writing you would have said it was a round thingy filled with some sort of chemicals and such.

Describing it in simple terms like she did would have made the piece colloquial, not formal.

Originally posted by Ponycar_302:
I have a BS/MS PHD in Critical Thinking and Writing. For a highschool piece this is a good paper. Let us know what you get on it. I know what you originally intended with it. When I answered I was just expanding on the subject, as I am now. I never meant to offend you, Belle.

If you were an elementary school teacher in reading and writing, you'd probably perform adaquately. At home courses for which you earn your degree's with a C- average are unimpressive.

I happend to notice you telling her to post sources for her information about 4 1/2 hours after she did. Are your reading skills that much worse than your writing skills Mr. Degree?

As far as me leghumping, I agree or disagree with points made, and give MY opinion on them. Just because my opinion happens to be the same as somebody elses does not mean I'm leg humping. If I were to follow on every post Mustangbelle306 made, agreeing with every comment, then I would be leghumping. Instead, I just choose to pick on people who obviously know little about what they are talking about. It makes it easier. Like what I'm doing with you right now. You are certainly correct about me being blunt, and rude on occation. I just have a low tolerance for people who think they know more than they do.

[Mustangbelle306]

Originally posted by Ponycar_302
Not neccessarily; most of what was written was an expansion of the topic in one way or the other, either by Belle, or someone else. Even you got off topic. I read everything written. What I wrote is called constructive criticism. She claimed it was interesting in the first line of the post. Interesting to whom? Were we simply supposed to read it and expound on the greatness of the article? If so, she should have said that. (No offense, Belle.)

Nah, you are by far the biggest ******* I've ever seen on this board, and that's coming from ME (which says alot). Other people might get into arguments and disagree, as we all do at one time or another, but you purposefully irritate people with such glee, I was admittingly taken aback.

Constructive criticism is aimed to improve something/someone. I love it, I've even posted a full thread REQUESTING it. You, do not provide it. You just love to provoke reactions, which is ******* childish as hell, and surprising for someone who is so educated. Interesting that you insisted on proclaiming your degrees as license to be an authority on the written word...I only disclosed my post high school education to correct your mistake.

I wrote it was INTERESTING because its another one of those topics that the media would NEVER touch, such as how recycling plants take up 13 slots on the Superfund list of toxic waste sites that are waiting for clean up (just a random example)...gee...maybe that's why I added the poor writing disclaimer originally...wasn't looking for praise, my writing is one of few traits that I have confidence in.

I'm going to stop responding to your posts now, because despite your one helpful point about my lack of mentioning the pollution at start up, its obvious you don't really give a **** about the topic OR my writing...hope this has been amusing.

Belle.

[Ponycar_302]

You are in the same boat as me for not showing your age.

I am 29, and I went to Penn State University. I was just asking a question. There is no need for a tantrum.

Unit, I try not to resort to name calling, but you have to be the stupidest person I have ever had the pleasure of debating. You have proved me wrong on nothing, yet you claim you have. I am rather proud that you can read and quote a dictionary. Good for you. "You failed to cover how it causes pollution WHEN COLD and how it ATTEMPTS TO WORK WHEN HOT." That is what I said. That is not what the paper said. Go read it again.

If you were an elementary school teacher in reading and writing, you'd probably perform adaquately.

True. At least I can adaquately perform. You cannot even debate intelligently. You resort to name calling. I have been following your posts.

I happend to notice you telling her to post sources for her information about 4 1/2 hours after she did. Are your reading skills that much worse than your writing skills Mr. Degree?

I was concuring with what someone else said. I wasn't trying to make an original point. Did you even notice that I quoted him?

Instead, I just choose to pick on people who obviously know little about what they are talking about. It makes it easier.

No you don't. You use certain topics to go off into a rant, calling people names when they don't agree with you. This is you pulpit, Mr. Torquemada.

I just have a low tolerance for people who think they know more than they do.

Like you? I was trying to help Belle, and inadvertantly insulted her. It was not my intention. You just yap at anyone who will listen.

Unit, shall we PM? I believe we've strayed too far from the main topic. Again, Belle, I'm sorry.

[Mustangbelle306]

*sigh* who even cares anymore.

Let's just all agree to end this idiotic thread...I don't believe in deleting first posts, etc...so I'll just quit. I trust the both of you will do the same.

Belle

[srv1]

i say we have a Mustang Works get together. we would rent an auditorium, and have a royal rumble and we all can beat the living **** out of each other!

im game!

[Ponycar_302]

Constructive criticism is aimed to improve something/someone. I love it, I've even posted a full thread REQUESTING it. You, do not provide it. You just love to provoke reactions, which is ******* childish as hell, and surprising for someone who is so educated.

That's what I tried to do (constructive criticism). Sorry, I didn't want to incite you, which I've apparently done. It was an honest mistake thinking you were in highschool. My best friends daughter is a junior in highschool and writes editorials for the local paper. It's not that unusual for a HS student. Again, I'm sorry.

Interesting that you insisted on proclaiming your degrees as license to be an authority on the written word...

If you knew what a BS/MS PHD actually was you'd laugh. Along those same lines....

Nah, you are by far the biggest ******* I've ever seen on this board, and that's coming from ME (which says alot).

You are the authority on assholes? (That is a blatant flame.)

...hope this has been amusing.

No, not really; however, you will not make me feel bad. If you would have expressed yourself better, instead of calling me names and going off into a tantrum, I probably would. You come across as spoiled and childish. Oh, and no, you're not getting your monies worth out of you professor. I was honestly trying to help. I guess I didn't make a new friend with you. Oh well.

[Mustangbelle306]

Yay! You got in the last word!


I agree SRV! I've been wanting to kick your sorry butt for a while now...I'm bringing ALL the chairs in my house, so watch out!

[Ponycar_302]

*sigh* who even cares anymore.
Let's just all agree to end this idiotic thread...I don't believe in deleting first posts, etc...so I'll just quit. I trust the both of you will do the same.

Sorry, I was typing and this didn't come up until I was done. I agree.

[srv1]

BRING IT BABE!

OH! I GOT A OAK TABLE WITH YOUR NAME ON IT! I DARE YOU!

[cyberstang5.0]

Can't we all just get along?

*the Barney theme song starts to play*