Any other 01 Cobras out there??? - Page 2

Cajun · 05-07-2001, 07:59 PM

One difference between the 99 and 01 Cobra is the ecu program. The codes for the 99's that I can locate are ZMR2 and LXT0.
The code for the 01 is MSE3.
I know that Ford has successfully increased horsepower in other vehicles by playing with the ecu programming much the same way that the aftermarket chip companies are doing.
Later
DT

Unit 5302 · 05-08-2001, 12:17 AM

The computer may be different, look at the A9L cars versus the Cobra computer. That's a huge difference, or even the 94-95GT's. You can pick up a lot by swapping computers. A lot being 20hp.

I've seen dyno tunes on modified cars lend 40hp to the final result.

The whole reason you are being put under the microscope here is simple, Cajun. People see you posting as a new member with what appears to be highly questionable numbers based on similar cars. Noteably, the 99 Cobra.

05-08-2001, 01:38 AM

There is tons of potential to be unlocked from the electonics in a vehicle. I am two semesters away from a degree in Electrical and Computer Engineering. I spoke with a local speed shop and the owner (an ex-Ford Electrical Engineer) told me about the potential. He said that when he was at Ford, they tested a stock mustang and unleashed close to 100 (flywheel) horsepower from the electronics. Tomorrow my buddy's '01 Lightning is going on the dyno at Livernois Performance for a custom burnt chip. I will post a scan of the stock v. pro-m maf and chip if possible.

Jason

FivepointOH · 05-08-2001, 10:29 AM

Hmmm 338rwhp and you're saying your highest trap speed was 105? .....

LT1 Z28 · 05-08-2001, 10:30 AM

Thanks for the rectification unit 5302.

Cajun, I don't dyno cars, it jsut seems to be the numbers posted by engine builders on car boards, around 16-18% loss for a manual and 20-22% for an auto. That's all I know.

I wasn't calling BS at all, I was showing my surprise/enthousiasm about your post.

Cajun · 05-08-2001, 11:31 AM

LT1: My apologies. I don't routinely dyno cars either. That is why I asked about other 01's. The dyno numbers could be something else on another dyno. I have been told that different dynos and different operators can and will get different numbers, again, I don't know. The top speed could be driver, I don't know. I do know what the time and speed were. I ran with a 00 (Camaro)(Firebird)????GM SS, he ran a 12.99. I don't know what he had done to his car.
I do know that we can gain 130hp and 250 ft/lb torque on a Powerstroke diesel by altering the ecu program by adding a chip. So, electronics are a major part of the performance game.
Later
DT

LT1 Z28 · 05-08-2001, 12:52 PM

That's the problem with letters, they don't show the emotions behind them.

Yes I heard the same thing about dyno's. I was told to use always the same shop to measure improvements between mods to avoid inacuracies between dynos.

The drivetrain loss is certainly no exact science either. The guy at the speedshop was telling me my M6 was loosing 22% power through the drivetrain... yeah right!

ECU programming is definitely an easy way to get power, I wonder often why car manufacturers program the cars so conservatively. Even on sports cars like Cobras! It must be for emissions and reliability reasons.

[This message has been edited by LT1 Z28 (edited 05-08-2001).]

spinemup · 05-08-2001, 01:56 PM

the reason why the powerstrokes see such increases is due to the fact that the chip alters the boost levels...... more boost= more power

its harder to get big gains from chip upgrades on an NA car.

StoplightWarrior · 05-08-2001, 02:25 PM

spinemup is exactly right. Superchip+my stang = ~5hp. Superchip + Power stroke Diesel = ~100hp. Since the chip can raise boost on the diesel, but only alter air/fuel to the NA stang, it cant do ANYWHERE near as much.

Cajun: No one is strictly calling BS on you (yet) I think cause we all would kind of like to believe the cobra hp claims. Again, please post a dyno slip so we can see for ourselves. Thanks.

------------------
Black 2000 GT
Magnaflow mufflers, K&N
Steeda springs, subs, strut tower, CC plates

Lizard King · 05-08-2001, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cajun:
...I ran with a 00 (Camaro)(Firebird)????GM SS, he ran a 12.99. I don't know what he had done to his car...

Are you getting your quartermile time from that run against the 12.99 Camaro/Firebird or have you gone to a track to get the 12.96?

From the looks of it you would need about 338HP to get a 12.96 given ideal conditions and taking in account that you weigh about 180-200lbs.

Unit 5302 · 05-08-2001, 06:17 PM

LOL!!!!

Lizard are you serious????

338rwhp should get low 12's with traction, and trap speeds far in excess of 110mph.

I'm sure the 220rwhp in the newer GT's could only get you into the high 14's. Har har har.

Rev · 05-08-2001, 08:25 PM

223.5 RWHP in my '66 coupe with a C-4 get's me 13.97/100.3. Race wt. is 3260. Incidently, I beleive my driveline efficiency with the C-4 is only about 75%. Drivelines with standard transmissions have an efficiency of about 83% according to Ford. Don't know what the AOD's are supposed to be.

Rev

------------------
'66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph
1/4 mi.

Lizard King · 05-08-2001, 10:36 PM

Rev and Unit, I simply used the calculator on the side ... it seems to use at the crank HP, not RWHP.

It actually made some sense when I entered my possible gains from taking the headlight out. ... at 284HP I get a 13.71.

Can you guys believe that... head light out I go from 260 to 284HP... is RAM Air good for a 24HP gain?

Unit 5302 · 05-09-2001, 01:07 AM

The Stang Analyzer is just an estimator.

What it comes up for isn't written in stone. There are so many things that it cannot figure on when judging how quick you can run the 1/4 based on hp.

Lizard King, I would bet your car is making better than 260hp stock, factory performance can differ +/- a good few percent. 5% difference would mean 13hp on a new GT. I doubt ram air is giving you more than 10hp. Your time picks up about a tenth, right? That would be closer to 10hp than 25.

Skyman · 05-09-2001, 01:30 AM

Cajun, sorry for coming off harsh on you. I believe your dyno numbers completely. I was in the same boat as you a while back. My car dynoed 332rwhp. And my best mph at the track is 107.0mph with a shortbelt, and probably a lighter chassis than you. I think both of us got screwed on the dyno somewhere, because I well expected 112mph out of my car with that kind of RWHP. Nice dyno numbers, but I think something is off, as with when I dynoed my car.

Skyler
332rwhp@5500rpm
351rwtq@3750rpm

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows.
12.55@107mph
Going for 11's on 87 octane with A/C and 20+MPG!!!

Cajun · 05-09-2001, 08:07 AM

Skyman: Could very well be. That is why I asked if anyone else had dynoed. I'm kinda new to the dyno "GAME", it evidently is a game. Seems like the operators can and do make it read pretty much whatever they want it to. I didn't know that before.
Later

------------------

05-09-2001, 11:48 AM

Powerstroke chips don't alter boost level, rather they alter the injection timing and fuel delivery. More fuel means more power and boost. Of course you need a free flowing way of getting it in and out (conical filter, bigger downpipe and 5 inch exhaust on big chips).

I have talked with many different calibrators and they said it depends on the car, but most of the time chips are even done conservatively by chip manufacturers. They sell chips for all cars by a base program (a "safe" program). All cars are different and by tailoring to the different needs you unlock the potential. This is especially true on modified cars with stock computers.

inferno · 05-09-2001, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 88GT5.013.02:
Powerstroke chips don't alter boost level, rather they alter the injection timing and fuel delivery. More fuel means more power and boost. Of course you need a free flowing way of getting it in and out (conical filter, bigger downpipe and 5 inch exhaust on big chips).

The Powerstroke chips do add boost. Just adding fuel and altering the timing isn't going to change boost.

------------------
90 Honda CRX aka Project Mongoose
Estimated Completion: 7/1/01
453 horses with a stock head...built head and LSD on the way

84 Toyota Supra
High flow cat, two chamber flowmaster, custom 2.5" piping, msd 8.5mm wires. Will have boost before 2002.
Have HKS turbo manifold for it

.....T04e next week

spinemup · 05-09-2001, 01:47 PM

well first off i think gt is saying it alters injector timing and inferno is thinking ignition timing. diesels dont have a distributer or spark plugs... so i can understand how it could alter injector timing and fuel curve but in order to get big power gains im almost positive the stock boost level is "upped" a notch.... but im not a powerstroke tuner so i really dont know much.

Cajun · 05-09-2001, 08:57 PM

Sorry Guys: The DiabloSport and the Superchip do raise the boost on Powerstrokes. Some PSD's even have an alarm status come on in the form of "Service Engine Soon" light. It goes out about 15-20 seconds after boost drops below alarm level. The chip could not add fuel without adding the proper amount of boost, too much black smoke. Stock boost on a 01 PSD is about 14psi, with a 50hp chip about 18psi, with a 78hp chip about 20-22 psi.
Still wish someone else would dyno an 01 Cobra. You guys have me doubting everything now.
Later
Cajun

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05-07-2001, 07:59 PM	#1
Cajun Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA Posts: 40	One difference between the 99 and 01 Cobra is the ecu program. The codes for the 99's that I can locate are ZMR2 and LXT0. The code for the 01 is MSE3. I know that Ford has successfully increased horsepower in other vehicles by playing with the ecu programming much the same way that the aftermarket chip companies are doing. Later DT

05-08-2001, 12:17 AM	#2
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	The computer may be different, look at the A9L cars versus the Cobra computer. That's a huge difference, or even the 94-95GT's. You can pick up a lot by swapping computers. A lot being 20hp. I've seen dyno tunes on modified cars lend 40hp to the final result. The whole reason you are being put under the microscope here is simple, Cajun. People see you posting as a new member with what appears to be highly questionable numbers based on similar cars. Noteably, the 99 Cobra.

05-08-2001, 01:38 AM	#3
88GT5.013.02 Guest Posts: n/a	There is tons of potential to be unlocked from the electonics in a vehicle. I am two semesters away from a degree in Electrical and Computer Engineering. I spoke with a local speed shop and the owner (an ex-Ford Electrical Engineer) told me about the potential. He said that when he was at Ford, they tested a stock mustang and unleashed close to 100 (flywheel) horsepower from the electronics. Tomorrow my buddy's '01 Lightning is going on the dyno at Livernois Performance for a custom burnt chip. I will post a scan of the stock v. pro-m maf and chip if possible. Jason

05-08-2001, 10:29 AM	#4
FivepointOH Registered Member Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Sugar Land, Tx USA Posts: 478	Hmmm 338rwhp and you're saying your highest trap speed was 105? .....

05-08-2001, 10:30 AM	#5
LT1 Z28 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ottawa, ON, CA Posts: 142	Thanks for the rectification unit 5302. Cajun, I don't dyno cars, it jsut seems to be the numbers posted by engine builders on car boards, around 16-18% loss for a manual and 20-22% for an auto. That's all I know. I wasn't calling BS at all, I was showing my surprise/enthousiasm about your post.

05-08-2001, 11:31 AM	#6
Cajun Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA Posts: 40	LT1: My apologies. I don't routinely dyno cars either. That is why I asked about other 01's. The dyno numbers could be something else on another dyno. I have been told that different dynos and different operators can and will get different numbers, again, I don't know. The top speed could be driver, I don't know. I do know what the time and speed were. I ran with a 00 (Camaro)(Firebird)????GM SS, he ran a 12.99. I don't know what he had done to his car. I do know that we can gain 130hp and 250 ft/lb torque on a Powerstroke diesel by altering the ecu program by adding a chip. So, electronics are a major part of the performance game. Later DT

05-08-2001, 12:52 PM	#7
LT1 Z28 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ottawa, ON, CA Posts: 142	That's the problem with letters, they don't show the emotions behind them. Yes I heard the same thing about dyno's. I was told to use always the same shop to measure improvements between mods to avoid inacuracies between dynos. The drivetrain loss is certainly no exact science either. The guy at the speedshop was telling me my M6 was loosing 22% power through the drivetrain... yeah right! ECU programming is definitely an easy way to get power, I wonder often why car manufacturers program the cars so conservatively. Even on sports cars like Cobras! It must be for emissions and reliability reasons. [This message has been edited by LT1 Z28 (edited 05-08-2001).]

05-08-2001, 01:56 PM	#8
spinemup Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: middleboro,ma, usa Posts: 734	the reason why the powerstrokes see such increases is due to the fact that the chip alters the boost levels...... more boost= more power its harder to get big gains from chip upgrades on an NA car.

05-08-2001, 02:25 PM	#9
StoplightWarrior Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Nor-Cal Posts: 1,311	spinemup is exactly right. Superchip+my stang = ~5hp. Superchip + Power stroke Diesel = ~100hp. Since the chip can raise boost on the diesel, but only alter air/fuel to the NA stang, it cant do ANYWHERE near as much. Cajun: No one is strictly calling BS on you (yet) I think cause we all would kind of like to believe the cobra hp claims. Again, please post a dyno slip so we can see for ourselves. Thanks. ------------------ Black 2000 GT Magnaflow mufflers, K&N Steeda springs, subs, strut tower, CC plates

05-08-2001, 06:17 PM	#11
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	LOL!!!! Lizard are you serious???? 338rwhp should get low 12's with traction, and trap speeds far in excess of 110mph. I'm sure the 220rwhp in the newer GT's could only get you into the high 14's. Har har har.

05-08-2001, 08:25 PM	#12
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	223.5 RWHP in my '66 coupe with a C-4 get's me 13.97/100.3. Race wt. is 3260. Incidently, I beleive my driveline efficiency with the C-4 is only about 75%. Drivelines with standard transmissions have an efficiency of about 83% according to Ford. Don't know what the AOD's are supposed to be. Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi.

05-08-2001, 10:36 PM	#13
Lizard King midnightruns.com Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 584	Rev and Unit, I simply used the calculator on the side ... it seems to use at the crank HP, not RWHP. It actually made some sense when I entered my possible gains from taking the headlight out. ... at 284HP I get a 13.71. Can you guys believe that... head light out I go from 260 to 284HP... is RAM Air good for a 24HP gain?

05-09-2001, 01:07 AM	#14
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	The Stang Analyzer is just an estimator. What it comes up for isn't written in stone. There are so many things that it cannot figure on when judging how quick you can run the 1/4 based on hp. Lizard King, I would bet your car is making better than 260hp stock, factory performance can differ +/- a good few percent. 5% difference would mean 13hp on a new GT. I doubt ram air is giving you more than 10hp. Your time picks up about a tenth, right? That would be closer to 10hp than 25.

05-09-2001, 01:30 AM	#15
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Cajun, sorry for coming off harsh on you. I believe your dyno numbers completely. I was in the same boat as you a while back. My car dynoed 332rwhp. And my best mph at the track is 107.0mph with a shortbelt, and probably a lighter chassis than you. I think both of us got screwed on the dyno somewhere, because I well expected 112mph out of my car with that kind of RWHP. Nice dyno numbers, but I think something is off, as with when I dynoed my car. Skyler 332rwhp@5500rpm 351rwtq@3750rpm ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows. 12.55@107mph Going for 11's on 87 octane with A/C and 20+MPG!!!

05-09-2001, 08:07 AM	#16
Cajun Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA Posts: 40	Skyman: Could very well be. That is why I asked if anyone else had dynoed. I'm kinda new to the dyno "GAME", it evidently is a game. Seems like the operators can and do make it read pretty much whatever they want it to. I didn't know that before. Later ------------------

05-09-2001, 11:48 AM	#17
88GT5.013.02 Guest Posts: n/a	Powerstroke chips don't alter boost level, rather they alter the injection timing and fuel delivery. More fuel means more power and boost. Of course you need a free flowing way of getting it in and out (conical filter, bigger downpipe and 5 inch exhaust on big chips). I have talked with many different calibrators and they said it depends on the car, but most of the time chips are even done conservatively by chip manufacturers. They sell chips for all cars by a base program (a "safe" program). All cars are different and by tailoring to the different needs you unlock the potential. This is especially true on modified cars with stock computers.

05-09-2001, 01:47 PM	#19
spinemup Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: middleboro,ma, usa Posts: 734	well first off i think gt is saying it alters injector timing and inferno is thinking ignition timing. diesels dont have a distributer or spark plugs... so i can understand how it could alter injector timing and fuel curve but in order to get big power gains im almost positive the stock boost level is "upped" a notch.... but im not a powerstroke tuner so i really dont know much.

05-09-2001, 08:57 PM	#20
Cajun Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA Posts: 40	Sorry Guys: The DiabloSport and the Superchip do raise the boost on Powerstrokes. Some PSD's even have an alarm status come on in the form of "Service Engine Soon" light. It goes out about 15-20 seconds after boost drops below alarm level. The chip could not add fuel without adding the proper amount of boost, too much black smoke. Stock boost on a 01 PSD is about 14psi, with a 50hp chip about 18psi, with a 78hp chip about 20-22 psi. Still wish someone else would dyno an 01 Cobra. You guys have me doubting everything now. Later Cajun