old school vrs new school

[69fastback]

hey a cool quick tip on the 302. A 289 looks the same on the outside as a 302. I got a buddy that has a 65 with a 347 and everyone thinks it is just a regular ole 289 car with iron head and everything nobody thinks it has much in it. Well to make a long story short the car runs 10.80s on a 150 shot of nitrous. It surprises alot of people. So when you put in the 302 stay with the carb set up and tell everyone it is the stock 289 95% of the people will not now the difference. Only badges and styling cues on teh car is the way to tell.

[Jeff65]

Hey Kid,

You'll want 3:50 or 3:89 gears with your five speed. They are sufficiently low to give you very good starting torque and you won't have to shift four times to cross an intersection. If you go with 4:11's, it will feel like you're driving a dump truck.

[fordkid68]

Jeff65 will the 4.10 still seem to much with bigger then normal tires on the back.


69fastback I like the sound of that. thanks.


thanks
fordkid

[Jeff65]

Originally posted by fordkid68
Jeff65 will the 4.10 still seem to much with bigger then normal tires on the back.


69fastback I like the sound of that. thanks.


thanks
fordkid

Wheel wells on classic Mustangs aren't big enough to handle tires of the width and diameter that it truly affects gear ratio. Here's an example:

Assume you use 3:89 gears and up the tire diameter from 25.4" to 27.5" (I doubt you can get a tire bigger than this in the wheel well and also have proportional width).

Calculate:

25.4x3.14=79.4
27.5x3.14=86.4
86.4/79.4=1.08

Hence you get 8% less gear.

For 3:89

3.89x(1-.08)=3.89x0.92=3.58

The tire effect is such as to reduce the gear ratio by one step.

For 4:11

4.11x0.92=3.78

3:78's are okay with five speed having overdrive of 0.68 or so but you will still shift three times quickly before the car starts to gain speed.

[fordkid68]

so what your saying is with 4.10's I wont be able to feel the power untill 3rd or 4th gear.


well thanks for telling me about the wheel well. cuz I thought I would be able to go bigger then that.


well if I can't have my big tires then I think I will lower the whole car and cuz I hate to see wheel wells. so since I will have A smaller tire would you guys recomend 3.55'

thanks guy's I think I have every thing selected except for the rear gears. o and the color of paint but you guys dont care about that.lol.


thanks
ford kid

[Jeff65]

Here's what I'm saying...regardless of tire size, 3:50's and 3:89's are the two best ring and pinion choices. Use 3:50's if you run street tires and 3:89 if you run oversize tires. This way, you'll get some highway economy and gas mileage from a T5 five-speed. Leave the 4:11's on the strip. If you stick with my advice, you'll only have to fill up once an evening...with 4:11's it'll be twice!

[Jthompson]

My suggestion:

Go with the t-5 tranny, and get the 3.73 gears, trust me, with a five speed, you will regret 3.55's. Forget the 4-10's.

Forget the archaic carbed motor. Get the best of both worlds. Find a 5.0 out of an 89-93 mustang and drop it in, fuel injection, computer and all. Those motors are already pushing an honest 225 horses. With the fuel injection and computer you will have great reliability. You will find out real quick how back carburators suck when having to drive them every day. WIth the 5.0 motor, you can get all the mods that the "fox" cars get. Such as an edelbrock performer intake, gt 40 heads, etc. Then when your dad says "ok" you are good for more power, then time for a supercharger. Why build one engine just to get used to it, then build another a few months or a year down the line. Start off with one engine that you can take all the way.

Do you really have the dough for this? Sound like an expensive project to me.

[fordkid68]

well I have the money but not as much as you guys think. so I am not rich if thats what you mean. I am inrolled in R-O-P for auto paint and tech. and my tech teacher said that he will help me do the swap after school hours with two other top students. so I have all the tools and help availible so all I need is parts. so that cuts the cost down alot. I am planning on spending 1000 for A donor car just for the rear end and front suspension(I know I might be able to buy the parts cheaper seperate but this way I know I have everything. then I am planning on spending another 2 grand for the motor. and my tech teacher said he would be able to get me A 5speed trans at no cost. and I just got A job(finally) and I have about 7 months to save up. pluss I got another car I can sell so I should have more then anough if I save 3/4 of my checks for 7months. and thats just for starters. once I got the 302 in there and am getting used to the power I can worry about saving for the other mods. probly strocking the engine cuz if I put on A superchrager then every one will know what I got and thats not good. especially with the cops. yung teenager driving A mustang is anuf for me. I dont need every one to know what I got.


ok well I am abviously going to have to think about the gears more. but you guys have talked me out of 4.10's so eather 3.55's cuz my brother inlaw has those and he gets decent MPG. but I might step it up anotch and get 3.73.


well thakns again guys. you have helped more then I can explain.


thanks
ford kid

[gofastmercury]

Just a note...
Early 302's and late "5.0's" have a different balance. If your going to use a late 5 speed,(good idea) make sure you use a 83ish and newer 302.

I have 3.55's in my 93, I wish I went 3.73's. I drive on the highway alot, and I cruise at 80mph all day long with out a problem, getting 30mpg. I don't expect your carbed, aero as brick 65 to do the same , but it shouldn't be far off.
Good luck!

[fordkid68]

gofastmercury- thanks for the info knowing me I would of got and any year trans and any year engine. and yea I just talked to my brother inlaw and he preatty much said the same thing but in different words. so 373 here I come.


thanks
ford kid

[66fastback]

ok, now that you've settled on building a "classic", let's make sure you do it right. It would be quite irresponsible for myself, and others on this board to not address the most important part of hopping up any car, but especially old Stangs.......Suspension and BRAKES.

I know it's not glamorous, and it's hard to brag to your buddies about putting in new strut rod bushings or ball joints, but it is are absolutely essential that the car handle and stop well and to do it consistantly. You really need disc brakes up front.......four wheel discs are great, but you really just need to make sure the rear drums are in good operating condition.

It's easy to get going fast, and it can happen in a big hurry once you get into the 250+ hp range, and you need to know that the car can slow down and make that emergency lane change when somebody in front of you does something unexpected. Please don't overlook this part, we would all hate to see something happen to you.

Now for the fun stuff......MORE POWER. God wouldn't have given us gobs of tire-frying torque and horse power unless he intended us to use it.

My advice.....put in a 5.0 (roller cams are wonderful inventions), stick a five speed behind it, buy some 3.80 gears(closest thing to 3.73's you'll find for that 8" rear), top with fresh basil and garlic, bake for 45 minutes at 400 degrees and ....ooops, wrong recipe......put a dual plane intake and 600 cfm carb on top, use 1 5/8" headers and enjoy. Yes you will go through tires quickly, but you just have to budget for that.

Best advice about driving fast.....learn when and where to do it. It doesn't belong everywhere, and the cops will surely remind you of that fact. Don't get me wrong, I drive my car on the street every day, sometimes much faster than I should, but I will NEVER drive stupid on a residential street, and I won't open it up unless I have a good open road without traffic.

To quote the great Peter Parker aka Spider Man "With great power comes great responsibility."

[fordkid68]

damn I can't belive I forgot about the brakes. disc breaks up front you say. well I have no idea what that would cost and yes I do know what you mean about needing to stop. I mean how many of you can say that not once in this week some one mad A unexpected move right infront of you. so yea I deffinitly need to addres that issue. so how much would front disc breakes cost and whats the best size. like since I am going for speed and not show I am abviousely not going to put big rims on. the biggest I will go is 16 but probly just put some wider 15 on there. so what size disc breakes would be good for 15 inch wheels. and how much more would it cost to put disc breacks in the rear.


thanks for bringing this isue up I would of ended up waisting all that work with the stock drum breakes on there not to menchine no money to rebuild it cuz of insurence.


thanks
ford kid

[mustangman65_79]

Originally posted by gp001
Who makes a kit to bolt in a 6 speed ?

Shoot, I forgot about it, I'll do it tommorrow. Sorry.

[66fastback]

You said this was a six cylinder car didn't you? Putting a V8 into this car really requires a lot more than just dropping it in. The suspension on six cylinder cars is not as tough as the V8 cars, and you would either be better off just starting with a V8 car, or finding one that you can pull all the parts off of. The stock six cylinder suspension will be severely overloaded with a big V8 dropped in.

You probably won't have much luck finding original front disc brakes (if you do, they can be expensive to rebuild), but you do have several options. There are several suppliers (one of which is Stainless Steel Brakes--I think you can go to www.ssbrakes.com --I think thats it, and check them out). I'm not sure how big a brake you can fit under a 15" wheel, but the stock ones were about 11" and can work pretty good.

The cheaper way to go is to swap the front spindles and brakes from a mid 70's Granada/Monarch. These brakes are also about 11" and can be bought very cheap. I think the only real change you have to make is to use the Granada outer tie rod in place of the Mustang one. You can probably put these brakes on the front of your car for under $250, that includes new bearings, rotors, and pads.

This is much cheaper than the aftermarket, which runs about $750 for the front and another $750 for rear disc brakes, which is why I suggest just sticking with stock rear drums. Either way, if you add a lot of power to the car, the tiny six cylinder brakes will never do the job. The V8 will add power and weight to the car, and those little drums were never intended to handle that kind of stress.

Remember, if you put safety first, you can enjoy hopping up your car for many years of street rodding, but if you put the power first, you may never get the chance to worry about safety until it's too late. Just dropping the engine in and hammering the throttle can be the recipe for disaster. Just do it right the first time, and you can forget about it. If you put a basically stock 5.0 into this car with a nice Holley carb on it and a good exhaust, you should have around 275 HP to play around with, and if you have the rear gears in behind it (3.55 or 3.80) the car will be a LOT OF FUN, but a real hand full on wet streets (trust me, I know about this part).

Have fun and good luck.

[Jthompson]

I have also heard that the disc brakes from a 76/77 maverick will go straight in.

[fordkid68]

yea like I said before I allrady got A donor car lined up. so I will have all the V8 suspension stuff I need. but I really want disk bracks cuz as soon as I proof to my dad I can handle more power then he will let me go as fare as I can offord. so disck breaks are what I want. so granada disck sounds like A good thing. I will look into that.


thanks
ford kid

[Rev]

Jim's Mustang in El Cajon CA. has a Granada kit with all new parts except for rebuilt calipers and bushed spindles for $600 + shipping. Mine worked out well but for one minor glitch. E-mail me if you go that route.

Rev

[fordkid68]

aight I will be switching to disc breakes when I start swapping everything ellse. and I will be going with granada disc breks cuz they seem to work well for every one ellse pluss are much more in my price range.


thanks
ford kid