Flywheel turns but motor doesn't!!! Help!!! - Page 2

Beanhead · 10-06-2003, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuantumMotorsports
Hey guys, I think I've got an idea, honestly, it sounds to me like something isn't quite right here, but it's possible that the ring gear (which gets pressed onto the flywheel) is somehow either loose or broken and is spinning, but the flywheel isn't spinning. That way, you can push start the car, but the teeth turn around the flywheel and don't turn the flywheel or crank. What do you think?

Yeah, something isn't quite right. I agree. The flywheel cannot spin freely without turning the crank (it is bolted directly to it by six bolts), thus turning the harmonic balancer, and thus, the serpentine belt. The only way the flywheel could "spin" "freely", is if it broke off the crank, and I HIGHLY doubt that is the case here, even if it DID break off the crank, it couldn't really "spin", for it would have no real axis to spin about, and it would be knocked out of alignment from the starter gear anyway. It would probably make the most horrendous noise too.

b055 · 10-06-2003, 10:45 PM

ok so accessories are not moving?

flywheel turning over freely when u hit the starter?

can be push started...

something definateally fishy!

Rev · 10-06-2003, 11:24 PM

Look in the inspection plate at the flywheel itself and at the ring gear as someone cranks the motor to see if both are turning. That should tell you about the flywheel end of the crank.

Also look at the snout of the crank shaft and the damper at the front as someone cranks it. That will tell you if the damper (balancer) is slipping.

Something somewhere is slipping.

Rev

HotRoddin · 10-06-2003, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by b055
ok so accessories are not moving?

Did you put the key in the harmonic balancer?

Stangbanger86 · 10-07-2003, 08:31 AM

Hey QuantumMotorsports, I checked the flywheel out and nothing is broken or loose. My friend that works and the dealership is going to come help me later tonight on it and hopefully we can find this out, he even seemed puzzled about it. Oh well, Wish us luck, we are going to need it!

Falcons Talon · 10-07-2003, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuantumMotorsports
Hey guys, I think I've got an idea, honestly, it sounds to me like something isn't quite right here, but it's possible that the ring gear (which gets pressed onto the flywheel) is somehow either loose or broken and is spinning, but the flywheel isn't spinning. That way, you can push start the car, but the teeth turn around the flywheel and don't turn the flywheel or crank. What do you think?

That makes sense to me, but what in the world could have cracked or loosened the ring gear? I had to replace one in my 84 HO and It wouldn't bidge until we drilled holes on either side of it and broke it off. Maybe it has a hairline crack? Are you seeng the crank turn or the teeth of the ring gear turn? Maybe it's still too tight to budge it by hand, but when you put the stress of the engine against the starter, it gives...

My money is on the ring gear.

BilLster · 10-07-2003, 10:04 AM

another vote for ring gear but i thought he tore everything down and looked at the flywheel ?

silver_pilate · 10-07-2003, 10:47 AM

A crack in the ring gear could possibly be missed if he wasn't looking for it. The ring will still grip the flywheel pretty tight, just not tight enough to turn the engine over without slipping. That's my bet.

--nathan

QuantumMotorsports · 10-07-2003, 11:16 AM

Either that or the key in the balancer, but then the accesories wouldn't turn after push starting the car either, check that out man. Check to see if the fan and alternator are turning when the car runs when you push start it.

QuantumMotorsports · 10-07-2003, 11:17 AM

No, nevermind, cause the car would probably start if just the balancer wasn't turning. I'm betting something's up with the ring gear on the flywheel.

Stangbanger86 · 10-07-2003, 06:38 PM

That could be a good possiblity but the darn flywheel looked good to me, I even grabbed my hands around the teeth and turned it and everything was moving.

Stangbanger86 · 10-07-2003, 07:20 PM

Allright guys, here is what I found out. When you try to crank it the flywheel teeth turn but the pressure plate doens't. If the plate is bolted to the flywheel, that would mean the teeth are moving around the flywheel and basically I'll need a new one. Anybody agree????

HotRoddin · 10-08-2003, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stangbanger86
Allright guys, here is what I found out. When you try to crank it the flywheel teeth turn but the pressure plate doens't. If the plate is bolted to the flywheel, that would mean the teeth are moving around the flywheel and basically I'll need a new one. Anybody agree????

Makes perfect sense to me ... doubt you could weld the ring back on because its probably hardened. I'd think about taking it back to where you bought it and asking them why it came lose ! I have seen a press on ring crack, and when it does that it will no longer hold.

Beanhead · 10-08-2003, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HotRoddin
Makes perfect sense to me ... doubt you could weld the ring back on because its probably hardened. I'd think about taking it back to where you bought it and asking them why it came lose ! I have seen a press on ring crack, and when it does that it will no longer hold.

WTF?!!!

How is that even possible? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the flywheel is one massive piece of metal, so there's no way for just the "teeth" to spin around it.......

BilLster · 10-08-2003, 01:57 PM

no on some cast flywheel steel teeth are pressed on to the outer edge of the flywheel so the started gear doesnt chew up the cast material..

I have a aluminum flywheel that has a bolted on ring gear in the basement,

Beanhead · 10-08-2003, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BilLster
no on some cast flywheel steel teeth are pressed on to the outer edge of the flywheel so the started gear doesnt chew up the cast material..

I have a aluminum flywheel that has a bolted on ring gear in the basement,

Wow... News to me... Learned something new through this dudes misfortune though...

Thanks

silver_pilate · 10-08-2003, 02:40 PM

Yeah, when we were building my engine, I watched a guy in his shop mount one. He uses a torch to heat up the ring. When it gets red hot, it expands enough to just fit on the flywheel, and he hammers it down. It cools and mates itself to the wheel. I don't know that the steel is hardened, just harder than the cast wheel. Heating up a hardened steel past a certain point like they have to do when mounting the ring will negate the heat treatment.

--nathan

Stangbanger86 · 10-09-2003, 07:46 AM

Cool, thanks alot for the help. I'm about to start stripping the car back down again. Hopefully I should have an aluminum flywheel to put on for Sunday. Thanks alot. BTW, I won the sport compact class at the track last night!! Woohoo!!!

Falcons Talon · 11-11-2003, 01:33 PM

SOoooooo...

Was it the Ring Gear?

silver_pilate · 11-11-2003, 01:55 PM

Yep.

--Nathan

10-06-2003, 10:45 PM	#22
b055 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: philadelphia ms Posts: 180	ok so accessories are not moving? flywheel turning over freely when u hit the starter? can be push started... something definateally fishy! __________________ i got mustangs. do u?

10-06-2003, 11:24 PM	#23
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Look in the inspection plate Look in the inspection plate at the flywheel itself and at the ring gear as someone cranks the motor to see if both are turning. That should tell you about the flywheel end of the crank. Also look at the snout of the crank shaft and the damper at the front as someone cranks it. That will tell you if the damper (balancer) is slipping. Something somewhere is slipping. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

10-07-2003, 10:04 AM	#27
BilLster Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ontario canada Posts: 446	another vote for ring gear but i thought he tore everything down and looked at the flywheel ? __________________ 89 with 331 t3'/t4 hybrids. upr Suspention worked out finnaly . 9.89 144 mph .

10-07-2003, 10:47 AM	#28
silver_pilate DURKA DURKA!! Join Date: Sep 1997 Location: Lubbock, TX...(TX panhandle) Posts: 1,418	A crack in the ring gear could possibly be missed if he wasn't looking for it. The ring will still grip the flywheel pretty tight, just not tight enough to turn the engine over without slipping. That's my bet. --nathan __________________ '91 GT, Coast 347, 9.5:1 compression, full intake, Wolverine 1087 cam, exhaust, Keith Craft ported Windsor Jr. Irons (235 cfm intake, 195 cfm exhaust), AOD, PI 3500 converter, Lentech valve body, 3.73's (4.10's in the works), and Yokohama ES100's out back. Daily Car: '04 Infiniti G35 Sedan 6MT

10-07-2003, 11:16 AM	#29
QuantumMotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 597	Either that or the key in the balancer, but then the accesories wouldn't turn after push starting the car either, check that out man. Check to see if the fan and alternator are turning when the car runs when you push start it. __________________ Michael Black QuantumMotorsports Norman, OK 1984 LX Hatch 306 w/ TRW forged flat toppers, Comp Cams Magnum 292H, GT40P heads w/ 3 angle valve job, .550 lift springs, Angus Racing Roller Rockers, Weiand Stealth Intake, Holley 4150 650cfm carb, MAC 1 5/8 Long Tubes, Single Chamber Flowmasters, 91' T5 w/ Pro 5.0 shifter, Turbo Coupe 8.8 Rear w/ 3.55 gears, QA1 Motorsports tubular K member, no interior except steering wheel and seat. Coming soon: 6 or 8 point cage, Fuel Cell, Weld Draglites

10-07-2003, 08:31 AM	#25
Stangbanger86 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Slidell, La Posts: 31	Hey QuantumMotorsports, I checked the flywheel out and nothing is broken or loose. My friend that works and the dealership is going to come help me later tonight on it and hopefully we can find this out, he even seemed puzzled about it. Oh well, Wish us luck, we are going to need it!

10-07-2003, 11:17 AM	#30
QuantumMotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 597	No, nevermind, cause the car would probably start if just the balancer wasn't turning. I'm betting something's up with the ring gear on the flywheel. __________________ Michael Black QuantumMotorsports Norman, OK 1984 LX Hatch 306 w/ TRW forged flat toppers, Comp Cams Magnum 292H, GT40P heads w/ 3 angle valve job, .550 lift springs, Angus Racing Roller Rockers, Weiand Stealth Intake, Holley 4150 650cfm carb, MAC 1 5/8 Long Tubes, Single Chamber Flowmasters, 91' T5 w/ Pro 5.0 shifter, Turbo Coupe 8.8 Rear w/ 3.55 gears, QA1 Motorsports tubular K member, no interior except steering wheel and seat. Coming soon: 6 or 8 point cage, Fuel Cell, Weld Draglites

10-07-2003, 06:38 PM	#31
Stangbanger86 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Slidell, La Posts: 31	That could be a good possiblity but the darn flywheel looked good to me, I even grabbed my hands around the teeth and turned it and everything was moving.

10-07-2003, 07:20 PM	#32
Stangbanger86 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Slidell, La Posts: 31	Allright guys, here is what I found out. When you try to crank it the flywheel teeth turn but the pressure plate doens't. If the plate is bolted to the flywheel, that would mean the teeth are moving around the flywheel and basically I'll need a new one. Anybody agree????

10-08-2003, 01:57 PM	#35
BilLster Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ontario canada Posts: 446	no on some cast flywheel steel teeth are pressed on to the outer edge of the flywheel so the started gear doesnt chew up the cast material.. I have a aluminum flywheel that has a bolted on ring gear in the basement, __________________ 89 with 331 t3'/t4 hybrids. upr Suspention worked out finnaly . 9.89 144 mph .

10-08-2003, 02:40 PM	#37
silver_pilate DURKA DURKA!! Join Date: Sep 1997 Location: Lubbock, TX...(TX panhandle) Posts: 1,418	Yeah, when we were building my engine, I watched a guy in his shop mount one. He uses a torch to heat up the ring. When it gets red hot, it expands enough to just fit on the flywheel, and he hammers it down. It cools and mates itself to the wheel. I don't know that the steel is hardened, just harder than the cast wheel. Heating up a hardened steel past a certain point like they have to do when mounting the ring will negate the heat treatment. --nathan __________________ '91 GT, Coast 347, 9.5:1 compression, full intake, Wolverine 1087 cam, exhaust, Keith Craft ported Windsor Jr. Irons (235 cfm intake, 195 cfm exhaust), AOD, PI 3500 converter, Lentech valve body, 3.73's (4.10's in the works), and Yokohama ES100's out back. Daily Car: '04 Infiniti G35 Sedan 6MT

10-09-2003, 07:46 AM	#38
Stangbanger86 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Slidell, La Posts: 31	Cool, thanks alot for the help. I'm about to start stripping the car back down again. Hopefully I should have an aluminum flywheel to put on for Sunday. Thanks alot. BTW, I won the sport compact class at the track last night!! Woohoo!!!

11-11-2003, 01:33 PM	#39
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	SOoooooo... Was it the Ring Gear? __________________

11-11-2003, 01:55 PM	#40
silver_pilate DURKA DURKA!! Join Date: Sep 1997 Location: Lubbock, TX...(TX panhandle) Posts: 1,418	Yep. --Nathan __________________ '91 GT, Coast 347, 9.5:1 compression, full intake, Wolverine 1087 cam, exhaust, Keith Craft ported Windsor Jr. Irons (235 cfm intake, 195 cfm exhaust), AOD, PI 3500 converter, Lentech valve body, 3.73's (4.10's in the works), and Yokohama ES100's out back. Daily Car: '04 Infiniti G35 Sedan 6MT

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