Missing Camaro?? Missing the point!!

RMARIANI · 08-22-2001, 10:25 AM

I know a lot of you guys will get satisfaction from the fact that GM is phasing out the F-bodies. I think some of you are missing the point I tried to make. Because of the increased popularity of "import" hot rods, our entire sport is being threatened. Right now we build our Fords to compete against and BEAT Camaros, Firebirds, Corvettes, etc. What will it be like 5 years from now. Today, for example, on my ride to work I saw 1 Corvette, 2 Mustangs and no Camaros or Firebirds. BUT, I saw at least 5 souped up Honda Civics buzzing around me. People, we NEED GM to continue producing Camaros and Firebirds as these cars, along with our beloved Mustangs are the only affordable American muscle cars left. Get it??

Super_Stang · 08-22-2001, 11:03 AM

ur right. i would love nothing more than to kick up on an f-body but more than that i want to kick import @$$!.. whether it is an f-body i am in or a mustang, as long as thosed pissed of weed-eaters are in my rear-view mirrors then i am happy!.. i love american muscle whether it be a 60's street rod to a 30's hot rod or a new style as long as it isn't an import!

redhotrod · 08-22-2001, 12:09 PM

I agree, What I hate most are people with Bad attitudes with large stupid egos. I encounter some with the GM crowd, but nothing like those ******* imports. Two days ago a stock(except no airbox, with pantyhose replacing the filter) Honda Civic Ex drove up to are hangout talkin junk to a friend of mine. He's got a V6 96 mustang. Long story short when the dude in the honda said he wanted to race for money, my friend wipped out 200 dollars, the punk then says all he has is 20 dollars and claims he is going to get money and never comes back. Guess he spent all his money on those pantyhose. Oh then we have a stock integra claimin 7's in the 8th come on. These jokers just piss me off. I have never met a GMer in a slowmaro or anything else american being that nieve, stupid, ignorant, just plain annoying
just my 2cents D

08-22-2001, 12:21 PM

Maybe I'm being silly, but isn't a race, a race??? either an import or a Gm, or another ford???

I think it's hillarious seeing these little import freaks, (with their coffee cans taped to their exhaust and the fresh memory of FaF running in their brains), driving up and giving me a rev... Then handing them their *** 'like God intended!!!

If you embarrass them enuff, they'll go away..

------------------
Black,84 GT,ground effects,shorty headers, 'open' dual exh.,302 HO(no pollution control crap)bored .060,T5,89 ported heads,edelbrock Performer manifold, Edelbrock 2122 cam,600 Holley, high volume oil pump...

Some day (3:73 gears & N2O)!!!

will this ever end????

RMARIANI · 08-22-2001, 12:26 PM

Yeah, it is pretty funny seeing these little import econo-cars reving there little motors and yes a race is a race. My point is that the kids driving these cars are the same kids (like me) who were hot rodding Camaros and Mustangs ten years ago. My point is simply that the Mustang builders of tomorrow aren't around anymore. My friends son is 16 and could care less about American iron. He's begging his dad to get him a Civic?? What the F__K is that all about?? A Civic??

Super_Stang · 08-22-2001, 05:00 PM

Hey Hey Hey now!... i am 17 and i love american iron!.. i think you need to refraise that to certain kids. And i will be one of those mustang builders of tomarrow too so don't go judging us all please

jimberg · 08-22-2001, 05:13 PM

The F-Body may be gone, but I already saw on Car and Driver that they are thinking of putting an LS1 in the Grand Prix. They may bring back the SS Monte Carlo or SS Impala. I wouldn't worry about it. The F-body just doesn't appeal to a lot of people. I see tons of Grand Prixs.

Oh, I mentioned this in the chat room, but I thought I should say it here. I think I have ricers figured out. They are basically people who kick *** at car racing games on their Playstation and think they can do it in the real world, too.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

MiracleMax · 08-22-2001, 05:38 PM

Hah, imports are the future! And for one reason, they are cheap. If you don't want to see the Mustang go away then somebody needs to impress upon Ford that the Mustang needs a price reduction to about 18,000 for a well equipped GT and about 22 or 23,000 for an equally well equipped vert.

I am thourghly convinced they would rather the Mustang take on an 3 series BMW than the Camaro or Firebird (at least the Cobra).

blue00gt · 08-22-2001, 07:18 PM

My main concern with the death of the GM cars is that Ford will no longer feel the pressure to keep increasing the Mustang's horsepower.
As for the price of cars, it's all relevant. You can say that alot of those little imports are cheaper, but they also don't compare at all in performance off the showroom floor. If you want an import that performs comparably to a Mustang, then you will definitely be paying $22K or more.

MiracleMax · 08-22-2001, 07:58 PM

Its relative, but the operating phrase for any hot rodder is "I can go faster cheaper", thats one of the biggest reasons the fox 5.0 made it so big. Fast cheap fun. Way back in 87 what was a GT 15 or 16,000? it had 225 HP and 300 Ft/Lbs. of torque and weighed 3100 lbs versus an IROC which was a coupla thousand more and had 245 hp with what 350 ft/Lbs of torque and weighed about 100 to 200 pounds more. Then there was the vette, same 245 hp and weighed about the same as a stang. Sure it handled better and was marginally faster, but for about twice the price.

Thats a recipe for success and it works for imports just as well.

Okay you go out and buy a civic and it goes 16s or cracks the 15 second barrier. you've spent 18,000 dollars. In my neck of the woods a GT goes for 25 to 26,000 dollars. thats a 7,000 dollar deficit right there in the eyes of supa ricer. Wings and Wheels will suck up 4,000 of that (requisite items for the average ricer) that leaves 3,000 for mods, maybe some super-charging, an intake and some exhaust (or just an S/C and some exhaust). and I'm sure ricer has just upped his performance a notch past factory stang territory. doesn't have to be much a car length is all that is needed to get a rep.

So what happens. A whole generation of people are lured away by low price and easy speed (worked for the mustang all those years ago). Then after a while. When the Mustang has lost its sales value, it either is morphed into something the establishment feels can be a seller with profit or is shelved until the nameplate can be slapped on something else (FWD Mustang anybody)that will supposedly gain value due to the Mustang "heritage" (e.g; FWD Impala or FWD Nova

)

Fox Body · 08-22-2001, 08:40 PM

Point 1:
Yes, it is a pity (IMO) that the F-body is supposed to go away. Yes we need to continue to improve American muscle. And yes, there is nothing that can compare to American muscle.

Point 2: I am a die hard Mustang lover, but there is something to consider. Don't get so haughty and proud and blind yourself. Pride goeth before a fall. Laugh at the import crowd if you want and you will soon be embarrassed. It is not wise to just shrug off the import scene and say that they're nothing to worry about, Yes that may be true, RIGHT NOW, but they are growing in many ways.
If I were part of the import scene, or any rival of American muscle, YES, I would want the muscle car lovers to continue to shrug me off as no threat at all, that is when the muscle car scene sets itself up for a fall. Don't pick on the little guy, he will grow up someday. Am I saying we must fear the import scene? Crap no! But we should possibly reevaluate our attitudes and open our minds.

-----------------------------------------
351W-powered 1979 Ford Mustang notchback
Stock 5.8L under 4" cowl, C4 w/ shift kit
Holley 750 cfm, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
1 5/8" MAC shorty headers, Al driveshaft
2.5" Off road H-pipe, 2-chamber Flowmasters
Front: 225/60/15, Rear: 255/60/15 Eagle GT II
Weld wheels (15x6;15x8), 8.8" Rear w/ 3.55s
14 x 4” K&N air filter (getting the Xtreme setup someday)

"Red, thou art my companion. Hasten now your quickened metamorphosis to Green that I may conquer all who dare abide there beside me. May they be left thither behind burnt black." ---Fox Body

RMARIANI · 08-23-2001, 06:33 AM

First I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to respond. Super_Stang, I didn't mean to say that ALL 17 year olds are going the way of the import, it just seems that MOST of the younger drivers I see are in imports not American cars. As for everyone else, I don't think cost is really the issue. As several of you stated, once these import cars are modified, they end up costing more than a showroom GT and may or may not be able to match the performance. I think its deeper than that. Maybe loss of American pride or maybe its the loss of confidence in American made cars. Out of about 30 guys in my office, only 2 other guys drive American cars. I don't know. I don't mean to drag this on, I would just like to say that someday, I hope I'll be able to take my kids to the Mustang-Camaro showdown at Raceway Park, Englishtown, NJ and not the Integra-Civic showdown!!

PKRWUD · 08-30-2001, 04:21 PM

Quote:

posted by MiracleMax:
Hah, imports are the future! And for one reason, they are cheap. If you don't want to see the Mustang go away then somebody needs to impress upon Ford that the Mustang needs a price reduction to about 18,000 for a well equipped GT and about 22 or 23,000 for an equally well equipped vert.

Has anyone else noticed that the car that leads the points race in the Import Drag Racing world is a Ford Focus? A turboed 4 cylinder regularly hammering a Nissan twin turboed V6, as well as ALL the Honda's (that manage to make it to the finish line). I'd say Ford has their sights Focused just fine.

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

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08-22-2001, 10:25 AM	#1
RMARIANI Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: New Jersey Posts: 167	Missing Camaro?? Missing the point!! I know a lot of you guys will get satisfaction from the fact that GM is phasing out the F-bodies. I think some of you are missing the point I tried to make. Because of the increased popularity of "import" hot rods, our entire sport is being threatened. Right now we build our Fords to compete against and BEAT Camaros, Firebirds, Corvettes, etc. What will it be like 5 years from now. Today, for example, on my ride to work I saw 1 Corvette, 2 Mustangs and no Camaros or Firebirds. BUT, I saw at least 5 souped up Honda Civics buzzing around me. People, we NEED GM to continue producing Camaros and Firebirds as these cars, along with our beloved Mustangs are the only affordable American muscle cars left. Get it??

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08-22-2001, 11:03 AM	#2
Super_Stang Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Refugio Posts: 67	ur right. i would love nothing more than to kick up on an f-body but more than that i want to kick import @$$!.. whether it is an f-body i am in or a mustang, as long as thosed pissed of weed-eaters are in my rear-view mirrors then i am happy!.. i love american muscle whether it be a 60's street rod to a 30's hot rod or a new style as long as it isn't an import!

08-22-2001, 12:09 PM	#3
redhotrod Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Durham Posts: 9	I agree, What I hate most are people with Bad attitudes with large stupid egos. I encounter some with the GM crowd, but nothing like those ******* imports. Two days ago a stock(except no airbox, with pantyhose replacing the filter) Honda Civic Ex drove up to are hangout talkin junk to a friend of mine. He's got a V6 96 mustang. Long story short when the dude in the honda said he wanted to race for money, my friend wipped out 200 dollars, the punk then says all he has is 20 dollars and claims he is going to get money and never comes back. Guess he spent all his money on those pantyhose. Oh then we have a stock integra claimin 7's in the 8th come on. These jokers just piss me off. I have never met a GMer in a slowmaro or anything else american being that nieve, stupid, ignorant, just plain annoying just my 2cents D

08-22-2001, 12:21 PM	#4
jerryIII Guest Posts: n/a	Maybe I'm being silly, but isn't a race, a race??? either an import or a Gm, or another ford??? I think it's hillarious seeing these little import freaks, (with their coffee cans taped to their exhaust and the fresh memory of FaF running in their brains), driving up and giving me a rev... Then handing them their *** 'like God intended!!! If you embarrass them enuff, they'll go away.. ------------------ Black,84 GT,ground effects,shorty headers, 'open' dual exh.,302 HO(no pollution control crap)bored .060,T5,89 ported heads,edelbrock Performer manifold, Edelbrock 2122 cam,600 Holley, high volume oil pump... Some day (3:73 gears & N2O)!!! will this ever end????

08-22-2001, 12:26 PM	#5
RMARIANI Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: New Jersey Posts: 167	Yeah, it is pretty funny seeing these little import econo-cars reving there little motors and yes a race is a race. My point is that the kids driving these cars are the same kids (like me) who were hot rodding Camaros and Mustangs ten years ago. My point is simply that the Mustang builders of tomorrow aren't around anymore. My friends son is 16 and could care less about American iron. He's begging his dad to get him a Civic?? What the F__K is that all about?? A Civic??

08-22-2001, 05:00 PM	#6
Super_Stang Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Refugio Posts: 67	Hey Hey Hey now!... i am 17 and i love american iron!.. i think you need to refraise that to certain kids. And i will be one of those mustang builders of tomarrow too so don't go judging us all please

08-22-2001, 05:13 PM	#7
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	The F-Body may be gone, but I already saw on Car and Driver that they are thinking of putting an LS1 in the Grand Prix. They may bring back the SS Monte Carlo or SS Impala. I wouldn't worry about it. The F-body just doesn't appeal to a lot of people. I see tons of Grand Prixs. Oh, I mentioned this in the chat room, but I thought I should say it here. I think I have ricers figured out. They are basically people who kick *** at car racing games on their Playstation and think they can do it in the real world, too. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

08-22-2001, 05:38 PM	#8
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	Hah, imports are the future! And for one reason, they are cheap. If you don't want to see the Mustang go away then somebody needs to impress upon Ford that the Mustang needs a price reduction to about 18,000 for a well equipped GT and about 22 or 23,000 for an equally well equipped vert. I am thourghly convinced they would rather the Mustang take on an 3 series BMW than the Camaro or Firebird (at least the Cobra).

08-22-2001, 07:18 PM	#9
blue00gt Mustang Addict Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 1,294	My main concern with the death of the GM cars is that Ford will no longer feel the pressure to keep increasing the Mustang's horsepower. As for the price of cars, it's all relevant. You can say that alot of those little imports are cheaper, but they also don't compare at all in performance off the showroom floor. If you want an import that performs comparably to a Mustang, then you will definitely be paying $22K or more.

08-22-2001, 07:58 PM	#10
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	Its relative, but the operating phrase for any hot rodder is "I can go faster cheaper", thats one of the biggest reasons the fox 5.0 made it so big. Fast cheap fun. Way back in 87 what was a GT 15 or 16,000? it had 225 HP and 300 Ft/Lbs. of torque and weighed 3100 lbs versus an IROC which was a coupla thousand more and had 245 hp with what 350 ft/Lbs of torque and weighed about 100 to 200 pounds more. Then there was the vette, same 245 hp and weighed about the same as a stang. Sure it handled better and was marginally faster, but for about twice the price. Thats a recipe for success and it works for imports just as well. Okay you go out and buy a civic and it goes 16s or cracks the 15 second barrier. you've spent 18,000 dollars. In my neck of the woods a GT goes for 25 to 26,000 dollars. thats a 7,000 dollar deficit right there in the eyes of supa ricer. Wings and Wheels will suck up 4,000 of that (requisite items for the average ricer) that leaves 3,000 for mods, maybe some super-charging, an intake and some exhaust (or just an S/C and some exhaust). and I'm sure ricer has just upped his performance a notch past factory stang territory. doesn't have to be much a car length is all that is needed to get a rep. So what happens. A whole generation of people are lured away by low price and easy speed (worked for the mustang all those years ago). Then after a while. When the Mustang has lost its sales value, it either is morphed into something the establishment feels can be a seller with profit or is shelved until the nameplate can be slapped on something else (FWD Mustang anybody)that will supposedly gain value due to the Mustang "heritage" (e.g; FWD Impala or FWD Nova )

08-22-2001, 08:40 PM	#11
Fox Body Mustang Maniac Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: GA, U.S.A Posts: 2,266	Point 1: Yes, it is a pity (IMO) that the F-body is supposed to go away. Yes we need to continue to improve American muscle. And yes, there is nothing that can compare to American muscle. Point 2: I am a die hard Mustang lover, but there is something to consider. Don't get so haughty and proud and blind yourself. Pride goeth before a fall. Laugh at the import crowd if you want and you will soon be embarrassed. It is not wise to just shrug off the import scene and say that they're nothing to worry about, Yes that may be true, RIGHT NOW, but they are growing in many ways. If I were part of the import scene, or any rival of American muscle, YES, I would want the muscle car lovers to continue to shrug me off as no threat at all, that is when the muscle car scene sets itself up for a fall. Don't pick on the little guy, he will grow up someday. Am I saying we must fear the import scene? Crap no! But we should possibly reevaluate our attitudes and open our minds. ----------------------------------------- 351W-powered 1979 Ford Mustang notchback Stock 5.8L under 4" cowl, C4 w/ shift kit Holley 750 cfm, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake 1 5/8" MAC shorty headers, Al driveshaft 2.5" Off road H-pipe, 2-chamber Flowmasters Front: 225/60/15, Rear: 255/60/15 Eagle GT II Weld wheels (15x6;15x8), 8.8" Rear w/ 3.55s 14 x 4” K&N air filter (getting the Xtreme setup someday) "Red, thou art my companion. Hasten now your quickened metamorphosis to Green that I may conquer all who dare abide there beside me. May they be left thither behind burnt black." ---Fox Body

08-23-2001, 06:33 AM	#12
RMARIANI Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: New Jersey Posts: 167	First I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to respond. Super_Stang, I didn't mean to say that ALL 17 year olds are going the way of the import, it just seems that MOST of the younger drivers I see are in imports not American cars. As for everyone else, I don't think cost is really the issue. As several of you stated, once these import cars are modified, they end up costing more than a showroom GT and may or may not be able to match the performance. I think its deeper than that. Maybe loss of American pride or maybe its the loss of confidence in American made cars. Out of about 30 guys in my office, only 2 other guys drive American cars. I don't know. I don't mean to drag this on, I would just like to say that someday, I hope I'll be able to take my kids to the Mustang-Camaro showdown at Raceway Park, Englishtown, NJ and not the Integra-Civic showdown!!