Smokedawg's Overheating and Driveability Issues

[jimberg]

All of the info below was posted by Smokedawg in the Blue Oval Lounge. I thought I'd start a new thread here to give him a hand.

Fastang: Here are a few of my problems.
This car can handle no stop and go driving situations..It gets to damn hot..like 240ish and higher sometimes to 250ish..I have put in a 3core radiator..Permacool fan..I took out the ac stuff and in front of the radiator even put a electric fan to push air into the radiator during stop and go driving..I put a 160degree thermostat and enginkool in it..I have no head gasket blown..I have fixed this prob a little with the electric fan but in long stop and go driving such as in the city, it still gets hot.

Another problem is that once i drive it somewhere over about 10 miles and go into a store or somewhere and come back out..when i start it, it acts like its flooded..and sometimes it will just turn over and never fire..so after about 5 minutes of never firing finally for some reason it will just start right up then act flooded..Now once i get on the road i have no problem w/it acting flooded..so i have turned the fuel pressure down but when i do this my car wont rev pass like 5500 and it acts like its starving for fuel.

So this car just now drives around my local town and right back home because i am afraid to drive it in fear of getting stranded somewhere or the motor detnating...

Any suggestions that will help is much appreciated..Thanks

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347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, A9P Computer, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley Fuel Regulator, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 79mm Mass Air Unit, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC del

[jimberg]

What order did you try fixing your overheating problems in? If you started with the 160* thermostat which is probably the easiest thing to do, that may be part of your problem. If it's essentially open all of the time, the coolant isn't in the radiator long enough to cool off.

Your starting problem sounds a lot like a leaking fuel pressure regulator. It could also be a bad PCV valve. I had a Paxton FPR and used octane boost. This caused the diaphragm to deteriorate and started leaking fuel out of the vacuum port into the intake. The symptoms were long starts and backfiring.

With 30# injectors (They're good for at least 450 hp), there's no need for you to have an adjustable regulator. I would just get a stock replacement and see how it runs. A stock replacement isn't that expensive. If you still have the problem, I would then perform a leakdown test. You may have a leaky injector.

Have you pulled any codes from your computer? Running a cylinder balance test may also be useful.

Just some thoughts.

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351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

[Smokedawg]

How much pressure does the stock fuel regulator put out??

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347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, A9P Computer, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley Fuel Regulator, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 79mm Mass Air Unit, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC del

[jimberg]

It should be around 37 to 40 psi. That would support about 455 to 500 hp with 30# injectors.



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351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

[jimberg]

If you're still around, go to the chat room. It would be cool if Dan could figure out how to page a user while online.

[Smokedawg]

ok...

[Skyman]

It sounds like your 13.5:1 compression is really causing this motor to heat up. I have the same cooling setup as you. I run 90/10 water and coolant with water wetter with a 180 thermo and I have no cooling issues whatsoever. You may need an aluminum radiator.

Also my temp guage went bad once and read way hotter than the car actually was. Make sure this isnt the problem and try what I said above.

Skyler

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-1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows.
12.55@107mph
Mustang owners get a 15% discount!
www.OJAIPCPROS.com

[jimberg]

Does he really have 13.5:1 compression? What's timing set at?



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351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

[Smokedawg]

compression is at 11:1..

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347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, A9P Computer, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley Fuel Regulator, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 79mm Mass Air Unit, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC del

[Rick 91GT]

I agree with the 160 degree thermo comment Jim made, swap to a 180. Get a nce big Alum radiator, and a good water pump.

13.5:1 = RACE GAS ONLY ?

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Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

[NO SLO PK]

Simple questions:

Could there be combustion leak into the cooling system through the head gaskets? A leak down test should show this.

Is your radiator cap in good condition, and rated somewhere around 13-14 psi?

Can we rule out the possibility that the motor is new, tight, and has a lot of friction? (new motors run hotter)

Finally, I like jimberg lots but gotta disagree about the 160 thermostat. I'm running a 160 right now, and it's definitely cooler than the 180 that was in there earlier. I disagree that a 160 causes the coolant to flow through too quickly, for when I used a Moroso flow restrictor (which enables constant hi-volume flow), the engine ran COLD. Just my experience.

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Russ L
'91 LX
Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

[This message has been edited by NO SLO PK (edited 05-25-2001).]

[Skankin]

I bet the water pump isn't pumping enough at idle. DO you have a hi-flow thermostat? They really do make a difference.

Get a fms cobra overdrive pulley for the waterpump. Keep the underdrive crank pulley, and you'll have the same ratio as stock.

If that doesn't do it, try a better pump. I highly recommend the www.stewartcomponents.com pump. I was using a FMS-C50, and the right bank ran noticably hotter.

[jimberg]

I did get a chance to chat with Smokedawg. He had a 180 at one point and it still overheated.

I think an aluminum radiator is probably the best bet at this point. The only other thing I can think of is that there are air pockets in the water passages. When it's cold, pull the radiator cap off. Start the engine and let it run until the thermostat opens. Water level shouldn't drop much. If it does, you probably have air pockets. Top it off and close it. Oh, also, turn your heater on full when checking water level.

I take it that once you start moving that the temperature starts to drop significantly?


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351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

[jimberg]

NO SLO PK, I agree that a 160 could help cool it off, but the opposite can be true, too. It's kind of a fine balance. It all depends on how efficient the radiator is and how hot the engine is getting.

Are you saying that when you're in heavy stop-and-go traffic, on a 95 degree day that your engine runs cold?

One thing that caught my eye in a magazine recently was the fact that electric fans are no good above a certain amount of HP. I think it was like 350. They just can't blow as hard as a mechanical. My guess would be that the original fan clutch was not working and the fan was just free wheeling. Going to a police duty clutch might help a lot.


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351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

[andy669]

Jimberg has addressed the issue of air pockets, but I dont think it has been looked enough. It seems pretty elementary, but having air in your cooling system can be a big problem. The way I was taught to get all the air out was, run the engine with the radiator cap off until there are no more air bubbles popping up. If you experience water shooting out of your cap (and your sure the system isnt full) there is most likely a huge pocket of air somewhere in the system. of course thats just my opinion, i could be wrong.
andy

[NO SLO PK]

Hey jimberg, with the flow restrictor my engine ran cooler under all driving conditions, including stop and go. In fact, it was so much colder that I was getting crummy gas mileage, since the EEC-IV wouldn't go into closed loop. That's why I'm using a 160.

Sadly, I've tried everything and nothing can keep my pony's temp from climbing a little during stop and go driving in 100 degree weather, but the flow restrictor was more effective than any of the thermostats. Next project involves a shoe-horn of the CCM extra wide aluminum radiator.



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Russ L
'91 LX
Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

[This message has been edited by NO SLO PK (edited 05-25-2001).]

[jimberg]

Maybe I shouldn't worry about my temp climbing then. It only does it when it's near 100 and I'm in a parking lot on the highway.

Smokedawg, how quickly does it rise and under what conditions?

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351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

[crewzin]

I had a similar problem once and found out there was a leak in my intake hose after the mass air sensor. The car run so lean it temped out. I found the leak, fixed it and it run fine after. Later on I put in a 160 thermastat and it started to run hot again, pulled it back to a 180 and no more problems.

[Smokedawg]

Sorry I havent been able to post..Ive been out of town. The radiator cap is brand new. It doesnt do to bad hitting a few stop lights here and there but when I get deep into the city my car throws a fit..I watch my oil for milky liquid but its always clean. When I hit open road driving(55mph) the temp drops down to about 160 or little less..How much does one of the cobra overdrive pulleys cost??

Does anyone have any ideas about why it wont start after a 15 mile drive??

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347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, A9P Computer, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley Fuel Regulator, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 79mm Mass Air Unit, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC del

[BilLster]

As for not starting can anyone say vapor lock
if your car is getting that hot and you park it the heat soaks into the fuel lines "and everything else" so even when the fuel pump kicks on it cant flow i have a fuel pressure gauge in the car and caught this on a hot summer day after raising the hood and letting things cool it worked fine my problem was a clogged "new" fuel filter it was days old but made my car run lean and overheated have you checked that ?

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89 with 395 single stage n2o and 373's need suspention upgrade