Oilpan, girdle, windage tray,and crankscraper?

93 Cobra needs input · 11-06-2002, 09:20 PM

I've been reading the post lately about crank scrapers and oil control issues. I want to get a nice aftermarket pan, windage tray and not have a lot of trouble installing everything. I really like Moroso's eliminater pan with built in scraper, but they say if you have a main cap girdle you need to fabricate your own pickup. I really don't know maybe that isn't as hard as it sounds! Could one of you guys kinda steer me towards a really good set up. I want a nice pan, maincap girdle, windagetray, and crankscraper. Is a crank scraper better to be built into a pan or installed seperate? What are good oil pump/pickup setups? Thanks guys just trying to learn racing

PKRWUD · 11-07-2002, 12:04 AM

I would just get the girdle and windage tray, and not worry about the scraper, but that's just me.

Take care,
ÅChris

jim_howard_pdx · 11-07-2002, 02:32 AM

I am the guy "pushing" crank scrapers to the racers.

Look, if you are not running in the 10's, then a windage tray, a girdle, a canton oil pan and high volume pump are all you will ever need.

When you try to go from 10 to 9 second quarters, the oil mist actually slows down the crank. It is like trying to run through a downpour. The rain slows you down and makes you work harder. Same thing applies to your crank. It is bombarded by oil dripping down on it, oil mist hanging in the pan, and oil that is splashed by the rods.

When you go from 9 to 8 seconds, the oil actually ropes around the crankshaft, like twine around a bobbin. As the crank has MASS it moves at a different speed than the oil, and as a result it begins to twist trying to carry the extra weight that is on its back. What is worse, is that the oil is also creating imbalance in the engine's rotational energy, so harmonics build that can literally shatter the block and break the crank.

Nearly all high rpm race cars utilize a dry sump oil system so that oil is sucked out of the crank case under vacume to eliminate even the mist. These engines develop a minimum of 25 more horsepower at 7,500 rpm just from the elimination of the oil roping the crank.

So if you are driving a nice street car, you really do not need a scrapper. If you are running high rpm's, you probably only need a windage tray unless you sustain that over a period of time.

Crank scrappers are a racer's best way to keep the crank unloaded. This allows it to maintain correct balance, and eliminates the flex that is created by roping.

I hope this helps.

For those running in the 8's and faster, it is common to see them put 10,000 dollars or more into their engine and driveline and wonder why they cannot win the trophies. The guys who win are controling the oil in their engines.

It is the most overlooked piece in the puzzle until they are staring at a broken crank or a cracked block.

ultraflo · 11-07-2002, 02:42 AM

the moroso pan you mentioned would be fine, that's what I've been using... DSS makes a nice billet aluminum main girdle and windage tray setup. That is what I'd recommend...

You have to align-hone the mains after you install a girdle, btw. And then check your clearances with plastigauge, etc.

Ford Performance Solutions also offers a windage tray/main girdle setup that's worth looking into... just do a google search.

Canton makes a pan, scraper, windage tray, setup as well...

Just thought I'd throw a few examples out for you to look into

L8R!

jim_howard_pdx · 11-07-2002, 02:43 AM

I forgot to tell you,,,,

Order your crank scrapper from Mustangs Plus at 800-999-4289. I believe they are just 14.00. You may need to file the scrapper in order to clear the exact rod and rod bolt or cap nut you are using.

You only need one for the leading edge of the crank as it moves into the center of the case.

These bolt to the bottom of the block's pan rail. you just put it in place, lay your pan gasket on top, then the pan, and tighten down the pan bolts.

I cannot think of an easier way to eliminate problems. Of course a windage tray is also mandatory.

Since you are going Vortec power, I would definitely use the crank girdle and main studs instead of bolts. The studs provide superior clamp force, and the torque they apply is correctly distributed to the cap. With a main bolt, it is the bolt stretch that provides the torque. This is affected by time, temperature, and stress. Studs are much more consistent.

PKRWUD · 11-07-2002, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jim_howard_pdx
I am the guy "pushing" crank scrapers to the racers.

Look, if you are not running in the 10's, then a windage tray, a girdle, a canton oil pan and high volume pump are all you will ever need.

I haven't heard anything yet that tells me he is going to be anywhere near that serious.

It's been my experience that by the time you are going fast enough to benefit from a scraper, you already know about it. This guy is miles from there. A scraper improperly installed can wreck an engine, so i was weighing the pros and cons, for this guy in particular, and every time the scraper lost out. It's just not necessary for his application.

BTW, when you get below 10 seconds, it costs $1k for every tenth you want off. At 9 seconds, it's $2k. At 8 seconds, you're looking at over $5k per tenth you want reduced from your time.

Just out of curiosity, if the engine is turning 7500 rpms during a 10 second 1/4, why is the oil on the crank any more dangerous when the engine is turning 7500 rpms during an 8 second 1/4?

Take care,
ÅChris

302 LX Eric · 11-07-2002, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ultraflo
DSS makes a nice billet aluminum main girdle and windage tray setup. That is what I'd recommend...

I agree. It's what I have on my 331 combo. Along with a Canton Oil pan and ARP studs on the mains and heads.

E

93 Cobra needs input · 11-07-2002, 09:35 PM

Thanks for the quality replys guys. I really love mechanics and mustang building/racing I'm on my 3rd one. Excellent post Jim I really didn't know exactly what a scraper did or when one was needed. I agree with Chris that I would hate to ruin my engine by installing a scraper wrong. It looks like I don't need one yet. Just started to work on my 331. My goal is hopefully build a reliable 500hp stroker that, with good suspension will hit in the 11's race 2 weekends a month and drive on street some. You guys answer all my question with racing experience. Hard to find in southern Minnesota. We have alot of old Monte Carlos running 16-17sec time slips!! All I want is a quality built mustang engine that will pull the tires, run low 11's and be able to drive to Mcdonalds is that asking to much, haha

Thanks Trent

11-06-2002, 09:20 PM	#1
93 Cobra needs input Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Madelia,MN USA Posts: 58	Oilpan, girdle, windage tray,and crankscraper? I've been reading the post lately about crank scrapers and oil control issues. I want to get a nice aftermarket pan, windage tray and not have a lot of trouble installing everything. I really like Moroso's eliminater pan with built in scraper, but they say if you have a main cap girdle you need to fabricate your own pickup. I really don't know maybe that isn't as hard as it sounds! Could one of you guys kinda steer me towards a really good set up. I want a nice pan, maincap girdle, windagetray, and crankscraper. Is a crank scraper better to be built into a pan or installed seperate? What are good oil pump/pickup setups? Thanks guys just trying to learn racing __________________ 331 stroker, JE 8.5:1 pistons, H-beam rods, steel crank, main cap, msd with 3step, BBK ceramic long tubes,TKO, 4.30's, motorsport Z303, Victor Jr aluminum heads, crane gold 1.6, southside lift bars, 90/10 front, 50/50 rear, centerforce dual friction clutch, Vortech S-trim soon.

11-07-2002, 12:04 AM	#2
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	I would just get the girdle and windage tray, and not worry about the scraper, but that's just me. Take care, ÅChris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

11-07-2002, 02:32 AM	#3
jim_howard_pdx Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 247	I am the guy "pushing" crank scrapers to the racers. Look, if you are not running in the 10's, then a windage tray, a girdle, a canton oil pan and high volume pump are all you will ever need. When you try to go from 10 to 9 second quarters, the oil mist actually slows down the crank. It is like trying to run through a downpour. The rain slows you down and makes you work harder. Same thing applies to your crank. It is bombarded by oil dripping down on it, oil mist hanging in the pan, and oil that is splashed by the rods. When you go from 9 to 8 seconds, the oil actually ropes around the crankshaft, like twine around a bobbin. As the crank has MASS it moves at a different speed than the oil, and as a result it begins to twist trying to carry the extra weight that is on its back. What is worse, is that the oil is also creating imbalance in the engine's rotational energy, so harmonics build that can literally shatter the block and break the crank. Nearly all high rpm race cars utilize a dry sump oil system so that oil is sucked out of the crank case under vacume to eliminate even the mist. These engines develop a minimum of 25 more horsepower at 7,500 rpm just from the elimination of the oil roping the crank. So if you are driving a nice street car, you really do not need a scrapper. If you are running high rpm's, you probably only need a windage tray unless you sustain that over a period of time. Crank scrappers are a racer's best way to keep the crank unloaded. This allows it to maintain correct balance, and eliminates the flex that is created by roping. I hope this helps. For those running in the 8's and faster, it is common to see them put 10,000 dollars or more into their engine and driveline and wonder why they cannot win the trophies. The guys who win are controling the oil in their engines. It is the most overlooked piece in the puzzle until they are staring at a broken crank or a cracked block. __________________ 1966 Customized for daily street and highway domination. 358 Windsor running 425 HP C-4 Auto and 3.25 Posi

11-07-2002, 02:42 AM	#4
ultraflo NX dealer-man Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Peoria, Illinois Posts: 977	the moroso pan you mentioned would be fine, that's what I've been using... DSS makes a nice billet aluminum main girdle and windage tray setup. That is what I'd recommend... You have to align-hone the mains after you install a girdle, btw. And then check your clearances with plastigauge, etc. Ford Performance Solutions also offers a windage tray/main girdle setup that's worth looking into... just do a google search. Canton makes a pan, scraper, windage tray, setup as well... Just thought I'd throw a few examples out for you to look into L8R! __________________ RLS Racing! 93 LX 9.20 @ 147mph 03 Mach 1 12.39 @ 116mph

11-07-2002, 02:43 AM	#5
jim_howard_pdx Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 247	I forgot to tell you,,,, Order your crank scrapper from Mustangs Plus at 800-999-4289. I believe they are just 14.00. You may need to file the scrapper in order to clear the exact rod and rod bolt or cap nut you are using. You only need one for the leading edge of the crank as it moves into the center of the case. These bolt to the bottom of the block's pan rail. you just put it in place, lay your pan gasket on top, then the pan, and tighten down the pan bolts. I cannot think of an easier way to eliminate problems. Of course a windage tray is also mandatory. Since you are going Vortec power, I would definitely use the crank girdle and main studs instead of bolts. The studs provide superior clamp force, and the torque they apply is correctly distributed to the cap. With a main bolt, it is the bolt stretch that provides the torque. This is affected by time, temperature, and stress. Studs are much more consistent. __________________ 1966 Customized for daily street and highway domination. 358 Windsor running 425 HP C-4 Auto and 3.25 Posi

11-07-2002, 09:35 PM	#8
93 Cobra needs input Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Madelia,MN USA Posts: 58	Thanks for the quality replys guys. I really love mechanics and mustang building/racing I'm on my 3rd one. Excellent post Jim I really didn't know exactly what a scraper did or when one was needed. I agree with Chris that I would hate to ruin my engine by installing a scraper wrong. It looks like I don't need one yet. Just started to work on my 331. My goal is hopefully build a reliable 500hp stroker that, with good suspension will hit in the 11's race 2 weekends a month and drive on street some. You guys answer all my question with racing experience. Hard to find in southern Minnesota. We have alot of old Monte Carlos running 16-17sec time slips!! All I want is a quality built mustang engine that will pull the tires, run low 11's and be able to drive to Mcdonalds is that asking to much, haha Thanks Trent __________________ 331 stroker, JE 8.5:1 pistons, H-beam rods, steel crank, main cap, msd with 3step, BBK ceramic long tubes,TKO, 4.30's, motorsport Z303, Victor Jr aluminum heads, crane gold 1.6, southside lift bars, 90/10 front, 50/50 rear, centerforce dual friction clutch, Vortech S-trim soon.

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