checking valve clearance

QuantumMotorsports · 11-26-2003, 09:45 AM

Hey guys, I was thinking of doing this instead of using a solid lifter like a couple of posts have said to do. While checking valve clearance with clay, instead of putting checking springs on or replacing a lifter with one that has been modified to not compress, I was thinking of having a friend use a drill to turn the oil pump. You think this would keep the oil pressure in the lifter high enough so that it would not bleed down? I figure that way the engine will be well lubed, don't have to remove springs, don't have to modify a lifter to work, unless you guys can come up with a reason not to. Only thing I can think of is it would be kinda messy. I'd have to put a valve cover on the side i was testing. Or actually, now that I think about it, I'd have to put all of the lifters in and it might just blow them right out of the lifter bores. what do you think?

302 LX Eric · 11-26-2003, 02:32 PM

Why can't you just set the head/pushrod/roller lifter up as normal, turn the motor over by hand and then measure the clay? Then, maybe subtract a little from your measurements to account for 'pump-up' to be safe with your clearances.

E

QuantumMotorsports · 11-26-2003, 02:47 PM

How do you know how much the lifters are going to bleed down while you're checking the clearance with no oil pressure? If you have oil pressure, you're sure that the lifter is completely extended just as it will be when the engine is running. That's why people use checking springs. The checking springs are not as strong as the spring in the lifter so the lifters don't compress. What I'm saying is instead of using checking springs, why not just turn the oil pump.

QuantumMotorsports · 11-27-2003, 10:49 AM

Nevermind guys, I'm just going to make a lifter to use. I have access to a machine shop, i just realized, why not just make a solid lifter that's the right size. It'll be a fun project anyway.

82 GT · 11-28-2003, 04:59 PM

Is that the engine your're building in your signature below?
If it is then there are a few things I can tell you right now.

1) You will definatly need your pistons notched for that 292H cam.
2) You might want to consider 4:10 or lower gears. That cam will need some help in the low-end department.

3) You will also want to consider a larger carb. too like a 750.

Don't put that 750 on before you get gears though.

I ran that same 292H cam in a 306 I had several years ago and didn't have the gears or compression to go with it and it was a dog until I hit 3500rpms and then it took off.
That cam has tons of upper-mid to high rpm torque & HP

I'm just trying to help you out so you're not very disappointed on your first pass down the strip.

QuantumMotorsports · 11-28-2003, 06:13 PM

Thanks, I've got TRW-L2482F30 Forged Pistons. They have valve reliefs cut. I said flat top in my sig cause they aren't domed or anything. I figured this cam wouldn't come alive until pretty high RPMs. You really think a 750 would be right for this motor? The car weighs about 2600 without fuel. I'm thinking that might help me out as far as getting it out of the hole. I still want to get a different gear set eventually though. At this point I just want to get the thing started. And I won't be too dissappointed no matter what happens as long as it runs. I've only got about $3000 in the entire car including motor, trans, rear end, and chassis. Not a bad deal if it goes low 13s or better. Anyway, I ended up buying a new lifter from autozone for like 3 dollars and I'm going to either tack weld the plunger to the case or drill through it and put a roll pin in it to keep it from compressing.

Jeff Chambers · 11-28-2003, 08:01 PM

Why do that, just take the snap ring out and flip the plunger (right underneath the cup) over and put it back together. That'll make it essentially solid. It's work to get the snap ring back in 'cause the tolerances stack up mighty tight, but it'll go and you'll have a solid lifter. Many folks do this for the entire set to turn hydraulic rollers into solid rollers.

QuantumMotorsports · 11-29-2003, 12:55 AM

Jeff,

Thanks a bunch man. I didn't even think to take the thing apart first. I just sat here and did what you said. My lifter must be a bit different from the roller ones that you mentioned, because when I flipped it over I ended up having a little bit of slop, so I just found a piece of really thin aluminum I had in the shop and cut it in a circle and put it right on top of the plunger (now upside down) under the pushrod cup. Works perfect!! Thanks a bunch man. At least now I can check valve clearances and be sure I know what's going on. Also, let me ask you this, you seem to know your stuff. I've got a 76 302 block with a hydraulic flat tappet cap/lifter setup. And I've got GT40P heads. Do you know what pushrod size will get me closest so that my rocker geometry will be closest to stock? The adjustable rockers I'm getting will only adjust for about a half inch difference in pushrod size. I have the pushrods for the 76 and they seem to be a bit short. I might be able to use them, do you know if the later model pushrods are a bit longer? Thanks man.

Jeff Chambers · 11-29-2003, 08:14 AM

Depends on what the base circle of the flat tappet cam is more than anything. I'm going to guess that right around 6.25" long pushrod will get you close. I've got some 6.15" and 6.50" for sale off my website. THe 6.15 were on my GT-40P combination but the heads were milled about .140". The 6.50" come from TW head setup.

andy669 · 11-29-2003, 11:32 AM

Set one intake and one exhaust up with two of the pushrods you currently have and your checker lifter set at zero lash. Put a dial indicator on the retainer and see what your max lift is while you rotate the engine over. A longer pushrod will get you more lift at the retainer. Most people will tell you to pay attention to the contact patch from the tip of the rocker to the stem of the valve. I have never really payed attention to that and have never had any problems.

Andy

blue oval 50h · 11-29-2003, 01:15 PM

Quote:

. Most people will tell you to pay attention to the contact patch from the tip of the rocker to the stem of the valve.

Yes, you should. Before putting on the rockers, use a sharpie marker and color in the entire valve stem. Assemble rocker and turn motor over checking p/v clearance. When you take the rocker off, make sure you have a wear pattern on the center of the valve stem. Real easy.

QuantumMotorsports · 11-29-2003, 05:28 PM

Thanks for the help guys. I think I've got something kinda weird going on because my pushrods are 6.9 inch (which is stock 76 302 pushrod length, for the flat tappet hydraulic) they are too short by about a quarter inch with the gt40p heads and the stamped steel stock rockers. My adjustable rockers that I'm getting have an adjustable pushrod seat (Angus Racing Rollers) and they say that they adjust up to a half inch. I just need to get the rockers and get them bolted on to see what I need to do I guess. With the half inch of adjustment in the pushrod seat in the rocker Maybe everything will be fine. I guess after thinking about it with the pedestal mount rockers with adjustable pushrod seat the length of pushrod doesn't have any effect on the geometry of the rocker. The pivot stays the same so the valve wear pattern can't be changed. Anyway, thanks for the help guys. I'll let you know how it turns out.

11-26-2003, 09:45 AM	#1
QuantumMotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 597	checking valve clearance Hey guys, I was thinking of doing this instead of using a solid lifter like a couple of posts have said to do. While checking valve clearance with clay, instead of putting checking springs on or replacing a lifter with one that has been modified to not compress, I was thinking of having a friend use a drill to turn the oil pump. You think this would keep the oil pressure in the lifter high enough so that it would not bleed down? I figure that way the engine will be well lubed, don't have to remove springs, don't have to modify a lifter to work, unless you guys can come up with a reason not to. Only thing I can think of is it would be kinda messy. I'd have to put a valve cover on the side i was testing. Or actually, now that I think about it, I'd have to put all of the lifters in and it might just blow them right out of the lifter bores. what do you think? __________________ Michael Black QuantumMotorsports Norman, OK 1984 LX Hatch 306 w/ TRW forged flat toppers, Comp Cams Magnum 292H, GT40P heads w/ 3 angle valve job, .550 lift springs, Angus Racing Roller Rockers, Weiand Stealth Intake, Holley 4150 650cfm carb, MAC 1 5/8 Long Tubes, Single Chamber Flowmasters, 91' T5 w/ Pro 5.0 shifter, Turbo Coupe 8.8 Rear w/ 3.55 gears, QA1 Motorsports tubular K member, no interior except steering wheel and seat. Coming soon: 6 or 8 point cage, Fuel Cell, Weld Draglites

11-26-2003, 02:32 PM	#2
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	Why can't you just set the head/pushrod/roller lifter up as normal, turn the motor over by hand and then measure the clay? Then, maybe subtract a little from your measurements to account for 'pump-up' to be safe with your clearances. E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

11-26-2003, 02:47 PM	#3
QuantumMotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 597	How do you know how much the lifters are going to bleed down while you're checking the clearance with no oil pressure? If you have oil pressure, you're sure that the lifter is completely extended just as it will be when the engine is running. That's why people use checking springs. The checking springs are not as strong as the spring in the lifter so the lifters don't compress. What I'm saying is instead of using checking springs, why not just turn the oil pump. __________________ Michael Black QuantumMotorsports Norman, OK 1984 LX Hatch 306 w/ TRW forged flat toppers, Comp Cams Magnum 292H, GT40P heads w/ 3 angle valve job, .550 lift springs, Angus Racing Roller Rockers, Weiand Stealth Intake, Holley 4150 650cfm carb, MAC 1 5/8 Long Tubes, Single Chamber Flowmasters, 91' T5 w/ Pro 5.0 shifter, Turbo Coupe 8.8 Rear w/ 3.55 gears, QA1 Motorsports tubular K member, no interior except steering wheel and seat. Coming soon: 6 or 8 point cage, Fuel Cell, Weld Draglites

11-27-2003, 10:49 AM	#4
QuantumMotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 597	Nevermind guys, I'm just going to make a lifter to use. I have access to a machine shop, i just realized, why not just make a solid lifter that's the right size. It'll be a fun project anyway. __________________ Michael Black QuantumMotorsports Norman, OK 1984 LX Hatch 306 w/ TRW forged flat toppers, Comp Cams Magnum 292H, GT40P heads w/ 3 angle valve job, .550 lift springs, Angus Racing Roller Rockers, Weiand Stealth Intake, Holley 4150 650cfm carb, MAC 1 5/8 Long Tubes, Single Chamber Flowmasters, 91' T5 w/ Pro 5.0 shifter, Turbo Coupe 8.8 Rear w/ 3.55 gears, QA1 Motorsports tubular K member, no interior except steering wheel and seat. Coming soon: 6 or 8 point cage, Fuel Cell, Weld Draglites

11-28-2003, 04:59 PM	#5
82 GT Import Slayer Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 2,241	Is that the engine your're building in your signature below? If it is then there are a few things I can tell you right now. 1) You will definatly need your pistons notched for that 292H cam. 2) You might want to consider 4:10 or lower gears. That cam will need some help in the low-end department. 3) You will also want to consider a larger carb. too like a 750. Don't put that 750 on before you get gears though. I ran that same 292H cam in a 306 I had several years ago and didn't have the gears or compression to go with it and it was a dog until I hit 3500rpms and then it took off. That cam has tons of upper-mid to high rpm torque & HP I'm just trying to help you out so you're not very disappointed on your first pass down the strip. __________________ '82 GT 351W (.060)Comp Cams 274* Extreme Energy cam, ported & polished heads w/ 1.94/1.60 valves 10.3:1 flat top pistons,stealth intake, Mallory dizzy,Holley 750dp carb, BBK shorties,Flowmaster exhaust,C-4 with 3700 stall converter, B&M pro shifter,8.8 rear, 4:10's, subframes, electric fan, powermaster alternator, 4 core radiator.

11-28-2003, 06:13 PM	#6
QuantumMotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 597	Thanks, I've got TRW-L2482F30 Forged Pistons. They have valve reliefs cut. I said flat top in my sig cause they aren't domed or anything. I figured this cam wouldn't come alive until pretty high RPMs. You really think a 750 would be right for this motor? The car weighs about 2600 without fuel. I'm thinking that might help me out as far as getting it out of the hole. I still want to get a different gear set eventually though. At this point I just want to get the thing started. And I won't be too dissappointed no matter what happens as long as it runs. I've only got about $3000 in the entire car including motor, trans, rear end, and chassis. Not a bad deal if it goes low 13s or better. Anyway, I ended up buying a new lifter from autozone for like 3 dollars and I'm going to either tack weld the plunger to the case or drill through it and put a roll pin in it to keep it from compressing. __________________ Michael Black QuantumMotorsports Norman, OK 1984 LX Hatch 306 w/ TRW forged flat toppers, Comp Cams Magnum 292H, GT40P heads w/ 3 angle valve job, .550 lift springs, Angus Racing Roller Rockers, Weiand Stealth Intake, Holley 4150 650cfm carb, MAC 1 5/8 Long Tubes, Single Chamber Flowmasters, 91' T5 w/ Pro 5.0 shifter, Turbo Coupe 8.8 Rear w/ 3.55 gears, QA1 Motorsports tubular K member, no interior except steering wheel and seat. Coming soon: 6 or 8 point cage, Fuel Cell, Weld Draglites

11-28-2003, 08:01 PM	#7
Jeff Chambers Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milan, OH Posts: 2,699	Why do that, just take the snap ring out and flip the plunger (right underneath the cup) over and put it back together. That'll make it essentially solid. It's work to get the snap ring back in 'cause the tolerances stack up mighty tight, but it'll go and you'll have a solid lifter. Many folks do this for the entire set to turn hydraulic rollers into solid rollers. __________________ Jeff Chambers 1990 Mustang GT 10.032 Seconds / 137.5 MPH 14-time Street Warrior World Record Setter CRT Performance 2001 Tropic Green Mustang GT - 12.181 / 113.2 MPH 2002 Ford F-250 Crew Cab 7.3l Power Stroke - 17.41@77.2 "There's nothing boring about a small block automatic shifting gears at 9400 rpm!"

11-29-2003, 12:55 AM	#8
QuantumMotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 597	Jeff, Thanks a bunch man. I didn't even think to take the thing apart first. I just sat here and did what you said. My lifter must be a bit different from the roller ones that you mentioned, because when I flipped it over I ended up having a little bit of slop, so I just found a piece of really thin aluminum I had in the shop and cut it in a circle and put it right on top of the plunger (now upside down) under the pushrod cup. Works perfect!! Thanks a bunch man. At least now I can check valve clearances and be sure I know what's going on. Also, let me ask you this, you seem to know your stuff. I've got a 76 302 block with a hydraulic flat tappet cap/lifter setup. And I've got GT40P heads. Do you know what pushrod size will get me closest so that my rocker geometry will be closest to stock? The adjustable rockers I'm getting will only adjust for about a half inch difference in pushrod size. I have the pushrods for the 76 and they seem to be a bit short. I might be able to use them, do you know if the later model pushrods are a bit longer? Thanks man. __________________ Michael Black QuantumMotorsports Norman, OK 1984 LX Hatch 306 w/ TRW forged flat toppers, Comp Cams Magnum 292H, GT40P heads w/ 3 angle valve job, .550 lift springs, Angus Racing Roller Rockers, Weiand Stealth Intake, Holley 4150 650cfm carb, MAC 1 5/8 Long Tubes, Single Chamber Flowmasters, 91' T5 w/ Pro 5.0 shifter, Turbo Coupe 8.8 Rear w/ 3.55 gears, QA1 Motorsports tubular K member, no interior except steering wheel and seat. Coming soon: 6 or 8 point cage, Fuel Cell, Weld Draglites

11-29-2003, 08:14 AM	#9
Jeff Chambers Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milan, OH Posts: 2,699	Depends on what the base circle of the flat tappet cam is more than anything. I'm going to guess that right around 6.25" long pushrod will get you close. I've got some 6.15" and 6.50" for sale off my website. THe 6.15 were on my GT-40P combination but the heads were milled about .140". The 6.50" come from TW head setup. __________________ Jeff Chambers 1990 Mustang GT 10.032 Seconds / 137.5 MPH 14-time Street Warrior World Record Setter CRT Performance 2001 Tropic Green Mustang GT - 12.181 / 113.2 MPH 2002 Ford F-250 Crew Cab 7.3l Power Stroke - 17.41@77.2 "There's nothing boring about a small block automatic shifting gears at 9400 rpm!"

11-29-2003, 11:32 AM	#10
andy669 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Moline Il Posts: 901	Set one intake and one exhaust up with two of the pushrods you currently have and your checker lifter set at zero lash. Put a dial indicator on the retainer and see what your max lift is while you rotate the engine over. A longer pushrod will get you more lift at the retainer. Most people will tell you to pay attention to the contact patch from the tip of the rocker to the stem of the valve. I have never really payed attention to that and have never had any problems. Andy __________________ 88 coupe 91 LX NMRA Pure Street 5120

11-29-2003, 05:28 PM	#12
QuantumMotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 597	Thanks for the help guys. I think I've got something kinda weird going on because my pushrods are 6.9 inch (which is stock 76 302 pushrod length, for the flat tappet hydraulic) they are too short by about a quarter inch with the gt40p heads and the stamped steel stock rockers. My adjustable rockers that I'm getting have an adjustable pushrod seat (Angus Racing Rollers) and they say that they adjust up to a half inch. I just need to get the rockers and get them bolted on to see what I need to do I guess. With the half inch of adjustment in the pushrod seat in the rocker Maybe everything will be fine. I guess after thinking about it with the pedestal mount rockers with adjustable pushrod seat the length of pushrod doesn't have any effect on the geometry of the rocker. The pivot stays the same so the valve wear pattern can't be changed. Anyway, thanks for the help guys. I'll let you know how it turns out. __________________ Michael Black QuantumMotorsports Norman, OK 1984 LX Hatch 306 w/ TRW forged flat toppers, Comp Cams Magnum 292H, GT40P heads w/ 3 angle valve job, .550 lift springs, Angus Racing Roller Rockers, Weiand Stealth Intake, Holley 4150 650cfm carb, MAC 1 5/8 Long Tubes, Single Chamber Flowmasters, 91' T5 w/ Pro 5.0 shifter, Turbo Coupe 8.8 Rear w/ 3.55 gears, QA1 Motorsports tubular K member, no interior except steering wheel and seat. Coming soon: 6 or 8 point cage, Fuel Cell, Weld Draglites

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