LT's vs. shorties vs. stock headers

jonnyk · 12-31-2000, 12:31 AM

Scenario: Stock motored '91 LX (I mean bone stock), with a stock cat-back, and offroad H pipe, which will make more power/torque? Stock headers, aftermarket shorties (1 5/8"), or longtubes (1 5/8")? All with offroad H pipe, and stock cat-back. Anyone have dyno graphs or links to one? How much of a gain or loss with shorties or LT's vs. stock headers (both TQ & HP)?

------------------
1991 LX Hatch 5.0L

AaronC · 12-31-2000, 01:10 AM

Longtubes will produce more torque and HP throughout the entire HP range. Whether it's modified or stock you will notice a difference. There were some guys on the corral that had their cars dynoed with longtubes (previously had shorties) but their cars had heads, cam, intake. One guy gained like 30 ft lbs of torque at 2500 (his biggest gain) and 15+ ft lbs at peak power. He gained about 5-7 HP at peak. Others reported similar gains. I will be installing my longtubes soon and will track test it and possibly dyno it.

------------------
3.55 gears, short shifter, BBK headers, Mac Pro Chamber, Mac Cat Back, C&L mass air, Nitto DR's, Nitrous Works nitrous 50-175

Best ET's:
14.14 @ 98 NA
13.46 @ 104 80 shot
with a worn traction lok and 60's in the 2.12-2.2 range.

Up next: Longtubes, short belt and a new differential

AxemanZZ · 12-31-2000, 01:34 AM

I don't have a dyno sheet or anything to show you but can say that it is a very noticable difference in power from the stock components after adding my long tubes. Plus that's the only mods on my engine. You will love them if you get them.

The install is a bit of a pain, but it's not all that bad. Once you get them installed and fire the car up for the first time it makes it all worth it.

I know I probably looked funny as hell driving down the road with a huge grin on my face driving by myself during my first time out with the new exhaust, but I couldn't help it =)

------------------
90 Mustang LX 5.0
My Ride*My Site

[This message has been edited by AxemanZZ (edited 12-31-2000).]

90dpscoupe · 12-31-2000, 02:20 AM

No question LT's are gonna gain more, but on a stock motor, 1-5/8's eql shorties will lose some bottom end torque.

Unit 5302 · 12-31-2000, 02:36 PM

On a stock motor you're not gonna see much of any performance gain from any set of headers. The long tubes will require a new H-pipe built for them and are significantly more expensive than shorties.

Equal length shorties are probably never worth the money and hassel over unequals, and your motor will not benefit at all from any shortie header with a primary greater than 1 1/2". You'll just lose torque.

AxemanZZ · 12-31-2000, 04:13 PM

Unit 5302, have you ever taken a stock 5.0 and installed a set of long tubes and crossover on it and found out for yourself if it make a difference? Or are you plugging in some numbers to come up with that remark? I'm not doubting you, just curious where all the people that say long tubes won't help out a stock 5.0 are getting this info from.

There was a big difference on my car after the install. I was very surprised how fast my car would climb now to 6000rpm from a dead stop. It's the best mod I've done so far. I just wish the tracks were still open so I could see what kind of times I get now because I bet I see a lot better times than I did my last time out.

------------------
90 Mustang LX 5.0
My Ride*My Site

AaronC · 12-31-2000, 10:51 PM

Unit 5302,

That's complete BS. I used to listen to comments like this and it held me up as far as mods went. I could never make up my mind and didn't want to make any bad decisions. Well I did the mods anyway and found all of them made a significant difference. My longtubes WITH H pipe only cost 360 bucks delivered to my door. I have the BBK's. That's not expensive at all. In fact I paid 390 for my BBK shorties and Mac Pro Chamber. Once I get my longtubes installed I will post new track times and will dyno it. Everyone I've talked to that HAS longtubes, either stock or modified have seen improved results. Look at all the guys that run stock motored 12's. They all run longtubes with your usual mix of parts with steep gears and slicks. The ones who have dynoed their cars usually pull off 240 RWHP and 300 RWTQ out of a STOCK motor. A stock 5.0 only makes around 190-200 RWHP factory stock, so that's nearly 50 RWHP at peak. Also about losing torque that's BS too. I didn't notice ANY loss in power what's so ever. Besides even if you did lose some low end power, you're talking about power at less than 3,000 RPM's. When you race you're never at less than 3,000. Most full exhaust sytems make around 20 RWHP at peak on stock 5.0's and at 5500 RPM's it makes about 30+ more than stock. This stuff has been proven at the track and dyno for years. If they don't work then why do people have success running them?

------------------
3.55 gears, short shifter, BBK headers, Mac Pro Chamber, Mac Cat Back, C&L mass air, Nitto DR's, Nitrous Works nitrous 50-175

Best ET's:
14.14 @ 98 NA
13.46 @ 104 80 shot
with a worn traction lok and 60's in the 2.12-2.2 range.

Up next: Longtubes, short belt and a new differential

AxemanZZ · 12-31-2000, 11:46 PM

Unit5302 isn't wrong, it's just that some circumstances differ than others. I noticed a big difference in power from my stock exhaust because my cats were probably going south. If I already had an aftermarket crossover and cat back I'm willing to bet that I wouldn't have noticed much at all with the long tubes, and it may have even been a hit on my low end torque.

I think most people believe you have to have aftermarket heads, intake, and cam before installing long tubes to see any difference in power. Granted, those components will get the most out of a free flowing exhaust, but it is a known fact that the exhaust is a huge restriction on a stock 5.0. Open it up with exhaust and a bigger intake (which I am about to do) and the gain will be even more noticable.

You gotta start somewhere. Some people start with the mass air meter and TB, some start with heads, and some start with the exhaust. What's the difference? Start wherever you want, just make sure to pick the best components.

Figure out what you want to do before you buy anything then buy it one piece at a time. So what if it hurts performance at one end of the rpm range. If it's part of the big picture go for it.

------------------
90 Mustang LX 5.0
My Ride*My Site

[This message has been edited by AxemanZZ (edited 12-31-2000).]

jonnyk · 01-01-2001, 04:08 AM

Thanks for the informative answers guys, it helped to clear up a lot for me. I've been thinking about the big picture for the most part so that's why I asked, and the cats on my car are in terrible shape (along with stock headers still), so it sounds like longtubes and a new H pipe will be worth it. Have a great New Year!

------------------
1991 LX Hatch 5.0L

AxemanZZ · 01-01-2001, 11:28 AM

Yeah, if your cats are plugged up you won't see any loss in power going with L/T's. You'll more than likely see a pretty big gain.

I'm sending you an email.

------------------
90 Mustang LX 5.0
My Ride*My Site

[This message has been edited by AxemanZZ (edited 01-01-2001).]

12-31-2000, 12:31 AM	#1
jonnyk Being stroked is great Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 772	LT's vs. shorties vs. stock headers Scenario: Stock motored '91 LX (I mean bone stock), with a stock cat-back, and offroad H pipe, which will make more power/torque? Stock headers, aftermarket shorties (1 5/8"), or longtubes (1 5/8")? All with offroad H pipe, and stock cat-back. Anyone have dyno graphs or links to one? How much of a gain or loss with shorties or LT's vs. stock headers (both TQ & HP)? ------------------ 1991 LX Hatch 5.0L

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12-31-2000, 01:10 AM	#2
AaronC Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Sacramento Posts: 10	Longtubes will produce more torque and HP throughout the entire HP range. Whether it's modified or stock you will notice a difference. There were some guys on the corral that had their cars dynoed with longtubes (previously had shorties) but their cars had heads, cam, intake. One guy gained like 30 ft lbs of torque at 2500 (his biggest gain) and 15+ ft lbs at peak power. He gained about 5-7 HP at peak. Others reported similar gains. I will be installing my longtubes soon and will track test it and possibly dyno it. ------------------ 3.55 gears, short shifter, BBK headers, Mac Pro Chamber, Mac Cat Back, C&L mass air, Nitto DR's, Nitrous Works nitrous 50-175 Best ET's: 14.14 @ 98 NA 13.46 @ 104 80 shot with a worn traction lok and 60's in the 2.12-2.2 range. Up next: Longtubes, short belt and a new differential

12-31-2000, 01:34 AM	#3
AxemanZZ Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 984	I don't have a dyno sheet or anything to show you but can say that it is a very noticable difference in power from the stock components after adding my long tubes. Plus that's the only mods on my engine. You will love them if you get them. The install is a bit of a pain, but it's not all that bad. Once you get them installed and fire the car up for the first time it makes it all worth it. I know I probably looked funny as hell driving down the road with a huge grin on my face driving by myself during my first time out with the new exhaust, but I couldn't help it =) ------------------ 90 Mustang LX 5.0 My Ride*My Site [This message has been edited by AxemanZZ (edited 12-31-2000).]

12-31-2000, 02:20 AM	#4
90dpscoupe Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: sanantonio, Tx, usa Posts: 1,407	No question LT's are gonna gain more, but on a stock motor, 1-5/8's eql shorties will lose some bottom end torque.

12-31-2000, 02:36 PM	#5
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	On a stock motor you're not gonna see much of any performance gain from any set of headers. The long tubes will require a new H-pipe built for them and are significantly more expensive than shorties. Equal length shorties are probably never worth the money and hassel over unequals, and your motor will not benefit at all from any shortie header with a primary greater than 1 1/2". You'll just lose torque.

12-31-2000, 04:13 PM	#6
AxemanZZ Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 984	Unit 5302, have you ever taken a stock 5.0 and installed a set of long tubes and crossover on it and found out for yourself if it make a difference? Or are you plugging in some numbers to come up with that remark? I'm not doubting you, just curious where all the people that say long tubes won't help out a stock 5.0 are getting this info from. There was a big difference on my car after the install. I was very surprised how fast my car would climb now to 6000rpm from a dead stop. It's the best mod I've done so far. I just wish the tracks were still open so I could see what kind of times I get now because I bet I see a lot better times than I did my last time out. ------------------ 90 Mustang LX 5.0 My Ride*My Site

12-31-2000, 10:51 PM	#7
AaronC Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Sacramento Posts: 10	Unit 5302, That's complete BS. I used to listen to comments like this and it held me up as far as mods went. I could never make up my mind and didn't want to make any bad decisions. Well I did the mods anyway and found all of them made a significant difference. My longtubes WITH H pipe only cost 360 bucks delivered to my door. I have the BBK's. That's not expensive at all. In fact I paid 390 for my BBK shorties and Mac Pro Chamber. Once I get my longtubes installed I will post new track times and will dyno it. Everyone I've talked to that HAS longtubes, either stock or modified have seen improved results. Look at all the guys that run stock motored 12's. They all run longtubes with your usual mix of parts with steep gears and slicks. The ones who have dynoed their cars usually pull off 240 RWHP and 300 RWTQ out of a STOCK motor. A stock 5.0 only makes around 190-200 RWHP factory stock, so that's nearly 50 RWHP at peak. Also about losing torque that's BS too. I didn't notice ANY loss in power what's so ever. Besides even if you did lose some low end power, you're talking about power at less than 3,000 RPM's. When you race you're never at less than 3,000. Most full exhaust sytems make around 20 RWHP at peak on stock 5.0's and at 5500 RPM's it makes about 30+ more than stock. This stuff has been proven at the track and dyno for years. If they don't work then why do people have success running them? ------------------ 3.55 gears, short shifter, BBK headers, Mac Pro Chamber, Mac Cat Back, C&L mass air, Nitto DR's, Nitrous Works nitrous 50-175 Best ET's: 14.14 @ 98 NA 13.46 @ 104 80 shot with a worn traction lok and 60's in the 2.12-2.2 range. Up next: Longtubes, short belt and a new differential

12-31-2000, 11:46 PM	#8
AxemanZZ Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 984	Unit5302 isn't wrong, it's just that some circumstances differ than others. I noticed a big difference in power from my stock exhaust because my cats were probably going south. If I already had an aftermarket crossover and cat back I'm willing to bet that I wouldn't have noticed much at all with the long tubes, and it may have even been a hit on my low end torque. I think most people believe you have to have aftermarket heads, intake, and cam before installing long tubes to see any difference in power. Granted, those components will get the most out of a free flowing exhaust, but it is a known fact that the exhaust is a huge restriction on a stock 5.0. Open it up with exhaust and a bigger intake (which I am about to do) and the gain will be even more noticable. You gotta start somewhere. Some people start with the mass air meter and TB, some start with heads, and some start with the exhaust. What's the difference? Start wherever you want, just make sure to pick the best components. Figure out what you want to do before you buy anything then buy it one piece at a time. So what if it hurts performance at one end of the rpm range. If it's part of the big picture go for it. ------------------ 90 Mustang LX 5.0 My Ride*My Site [This message has been edited by AxemanZZ (edited 12-31-2000).]

01-01-2001, 04:08 AM	#9
jonnyk Being stroked is great Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 772	Thanks for the informative answers guys, it helped to clear up a lot for me. I've been thinking about the big picture for the most part so that's why I asked, and the cats on my car are in terrible shape (along with stock headers still), so it sounds like longtubes and a new H pipe will be worth it. Have a great New Year! ------------------ 1991 LX Hatch 5.0L

01-01-2001, 11:28 AM	#10
AxemanZZ Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 984	Yeah, if your cats are plugged up you won't see any loss in power going with L/T's. You'll more than likely see a pretty big gain. I'm sending you an email. ------------------ 90 Mustang LX 5.0 My Ride*My Site [This message has been edited by AxemanZZ (edited 01-01-2001).]