Gears - low end?

B2r3y · 01-28-2003, 01:02 AM

SOrry for asking and i may get flamed for this but i just got my 5.0 and its an 88 with efi totally stock, but i was wondering is it normal to have reallllyy lonnnnnng gears in a 5 speed? i mean i can run 2nd all the way to 75mph and still not be redlining? someone let me know. thanks
bry

MEDIK418 · 01-28-2003, 01:07 AM

Never thought much about it but I don't think that's too high for 2:73's or something close. I remember a certain 17 year old trying to talk me into believing he wasn't doing 58 in a 35 because he was only in 2nd gear and there's no way that car will do that in 2nd. With 3:55's no less. Anyway, 58 in second is easily accomplished. I took him and the car out to see if this was reality or my imagination. He lost.

Old Guy with 87 GT · 01-28-2003, 07:34 AM

yep it's pretty normal

mine had 2:73s in it for a while .......2nd gear 6200 rpms 78 mph

coincadentally ......5th gear 80 mph .......1900 rpm

crazypete · 01-28-2003, 10:29 AM

I remember that when I had my 3.08's, it would be nearly impossible to use 5th since the rpms would drop so low that the engine would have no power. 70 in 2nd? Yeah, I have no problems believing that.

Get some 4.11's dude. I have 3.73's and a carb and I get 19-20 highway. I would do the 4.11's if I had to go over again. Putting in FMS gears is a sinche, I did it with just ratchets and a mallet. Any other bradn and you'll need a speed shop or a good rear end mechanic

B2r3y · 01-28-2003, 11:13 AM

thanks for the advice on that.

now as for switching out gears, what would be the differance in these things if i were to go with 3.73, or 4.11( like differance for both if u could):
-Gas mileage
-gear span(the 2nd gear going to 75mph hehe)
-and the qwikness of the car in the 1/4 mile

also crazypete, what did u strip off that took off 400lbs?
thanks
bry

bigred90gt · 01-28-2003, 11:18 AM

If you don't have sticky tires with the 4.10's, you will spin all the time, especially at the track when you don't want to. I think 4.11's are chevy gears and 4.10's are Ford. I have 3.73's and avg 17-20 mpg. The gear span will be reduced, but acceleration is gained. From what I understang it is a dramatic difference. The 3.73's were in my car when I bought it.

Caymon

crazypete · 01-28-2003, 09:09 PM

Off the top of my head.... with 3.73's and stock t-5, I pull 2000 rpm's in 5th at 65mph (roughly). See? You could jump up to the next gear ratio and still have tons of wind left in the ole girl. Why would you want to do 75 in 2nd? That sounds like a fantastic way to blow a motor or bend some rods. I think you can do...probably with the same car 60mph in 2nd? Maybe even 65.

Milage? I get about 20mpg with the 3.73's and a carb. Granted, I baby this car and mosey around (step 23 on the insurance does that to a person).

Go 4.10! Do it! Peeling rubber is fun! Throw the battery in the trunk and get some drag springs.

GhettoPop · 01-28-2003, 10:29 PM

Thinking about throwing in a pair of either 3.73's or 4.10's in my stock 90 Gt....How difficult is the install? What tools are needed and approx how much time?

crazypete · 01-28-2003, 11:58 PM

Official answer: It's very difficult...blah blah dont attempt it blah blah you'll blow up your axle...

The gears are like $150 and install can range from $200-300

Now if you buy fms gears (and this only applies to fms gears), you can attempt it yourself. Worst case: it makes noise and then you take it to a shop. Hell, you can drop the axle and take it to a place that deals especially in them (commercial truck shops do this a lot).

I pulled the sway bar off, took off the back panel to the axle (the gear oil smells like CRAP!), pulled out the "pin", removed the c-clips, unbolted the differential, hammered the gear off, boiled the new gear and dropped it onto the diff, took a happy dead blow mallet and coerced the pinion out. Since these are fms gears, I decided to try and see if it was true that you could use the existing shims. I simply reused all the shims and I even, in my great wisdom, reused the old crush sleeve. If figured it was crushed enough already the first time around. I bolted everything back together, tightened the pinion nut and threw it all back together. Took it for a spin. Howled. Tightened the pinion nut till it didnt wobble at all and had some drag on it but was still turnable by hand. Threw it back together again , took it for a spin and it was silent. Took it on the highway and it was silent.

Like I said, if this doesnt work, take whatever you've done to the gear shop and have them "fix" what you did. If it's grinding and howling, have it towed for saftey, you dont want to chew up the gears

Nixon1 · 01-29-2003, 11:32 AM

Pete...how do you get so much gas mileage? I've got a 4.10 or 4.11 rear, one or the other, and a mild cam..but it's an EFI car, and I get a roughly estimated 10 mpg or less sometimes. In a week of normal driving, I put $20 in the Mustang to keep the gas tank up. In my old Camaro that got near 20 mpg, I put in about $10 a week and sometimes drove even more than I am now. SICK!

crazypete · 01-29-2003, 11:54 AM

Here's a trick that I've learned. Most people drive their cars all wrong. All wrong completely.

Most people drive around trying to use the lowest rpms possible. Fuel usage is a function of engine load, not revolutions. Try this. Drive using gear instead of power. What I mean by this is gently let the car spin up to 3k, shift to 2200, run it to 3k, shift and so forth. Notice how high the pedal is. You barely have to put it in to make the car go. Now shift to a higher gear and notice that you have to put the pedal much more just to maintain speed.

I noticed this with my saab 9000, which only had a 2.0 turbo. When my firends drove it, the clutch would be chattering almost and the turbo was spinning away as they were trying to drive around at 1200 rpms. When I drove it, the turbo was silent most of the time using the gear method above. It's easy to use a boost guage as an engine load indicator.

Ok, then I have pulleys, synthetic fluids bumper to bumper, 400 lbs of weight reduction, good ignition system, open exhaust and a casual driving style.

Hope this helps

crazypete · 01-29-2003, 11:58 AM

Oh yeah, I tend to underjet the carb a bit, turn the idle screws a bit to the conservative side of things and put in a 9.5 power valve so the fuel is there if I need to punch it.

Look! I can actually control my car's fuel usage!!! I LOVE CARBS!

01-29-2003, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crazypete
Ok, then I have pulleys, synthetic fluids bumper to bumper, 400 lbs of weight reduction, good ignition system, open exhaust and a casual driving style.

What all have you removed to acheive 400lbs. of weight reduction??

crazypete · 01-29-2003, 03:12 PM

This is really close to 400 pounds (390 lbs when last I checked)

Removed front bumper and supports
Removed light bar and remounted fogs
removed skirt around lower engine bay
Removed a/c radiator
removed all a/c hoses
removed a/c compressor
removed all tubes and hoses for heater core
removed hood heatshield pad
battery to the trunk
stripped cruise components
Stripped airbag sensors and airbag and brackets
mechanical fuel pump installed with new timing chain cover
Stock fuel pump removed along with all relays and wiring
stock EEC-4 removed with all relays and 25 lbs of wiring
Pulled all soundproofing except under carpet
Removed frame for dashboard (doesnt need it)
pulled entire fan and heater tract assembly including parts in dash
disabled rear defroster assembly and pulled all relays and wiring
Pulled radio support bracket
Pulled shifter boot plate
Replaced armrest unit with 90' convertible plate
removed back seat support frame flipdowns
removed back seat support bars
removed rear bumper I-beam and supports
removed rear axle damper
removed pinion snubber strike plate
removed spare tire + jack + iron (never came with one)
removed tire well plate
removed front bumper and support beams

01-28-2003, 01:02 AM	#1
B2r3y Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Htown tx Posts: 70	Gears - low end? SOrry for asking and i may get flamed for this but i just got my 5.0 and its an 88 with efi totally stock, but i was wondering is it normal to have reallllyy lonnnnnng gears in a 5 speed? i mean i can run 2nd all the way to 75mph and still not be redlining? someone let me know. thanks bry

01-28-2003, 01:07 AM	#2
MEDIK418 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Amarillo, Texas, USA Posts: 780	Never thought much about it but I don't think that's too high for 2:73's or something close. I remember a certain 17 year old trying to talk me into believing he wasn't doing 58 in a 35 because he was only in 2nd gear and there's no way that car will do that in 2nd. With 3:55's no less. Anyway, 58 in second is easily accomplished. I took him and the car out to see if this was reality or my imagination. He lost. __________________ 1986 four-eyed LX coupe, 358 Cleveland, Tremec TKO600/centerforce clutch, dish cut Probe forged pistons, comp cams hyd.roller cam, .579/.588@224/230, Edel.performer, 670 holley street avenger, CPR custom built long tubes, ported and polished 4bbl heads, manley valves, beehive springs, MSD peo-billet dist/MSD6AL, fluidamper, 5 lug conv. with 17x8 bullits there's more but it's still not finished yet. Oh, and the oldest boy is turning his 89 GT into a FFR cobra this next summer.

01-28-2003, 07:34 AM	#3
Old Guy with 87 GT Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Harrisburg, Pennsylvania Posts: 379	yep it's pretty normal mine had 2:73s in it for a while .......2nd gear 6200 rpms 78 mph coincadentally ......5th gear 80 mph .......1900 rpm __________________ the "not so old",old guy 87 Mustang GT T-top >hanlon t-5, pro 5.0, centerforce clutch ,adj. cable/quatrant ,3.27s ,full 2 1/2 ex(off road H) adj. reg. ,e-cam ,70mm TB, cobra intake ,1.7rr ,ported/milled e7ets w/crane springs ,306 balaced/decked short block w/speed pro forged flat top pistons ...257rwhp/302rwt best et 13.7@102 (4/11 ) '80 Capri (future project,currently collecting parts for 351 moter)

01-28-2003, 10:29 AM	#4
crazypete Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 592	I remember that when I had my 3.08's, it would be nearly impossible to use 5th since the rpms would drop so low that the engine would have no power. 70 in 2nd? Yeah, I have no problems believing that. Get some 4.11's dude. I have 3.73's and a carb and I get 19-20 highway. I would do the 4.11's if I had to go over again. Putting in FMS gears is a sinche, I did it with just ratchets and a mallet. Any other bradn and you'll need a speed shop or a good rear end mechanic __________________ 91 GT Carb conversion, holley 600 double pumper, edelbrock performer intake, FMS "C" drop springs, march 1000 underdrive pullies, crane 1.7 roller rockers, GT-40P headers, bassani x pipe, american thunder catback, FMS 4.56's, msd aL6, trunkmount battery, A/C eliminator kit, 3000 stall tci streetfighter, AOD with transgo kit, A+ servo, 300M hardened lockup shaft, kevlar bands and 28,000 gvw trans cooler, 3 core radiator, 300 lbs stripped with a full interior

01-28-2003, 11:18 AM	#6
bigred90gt 2 Stangs in the Stable Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Baytown, TX Posts: 1,209	If you don't have sticky tires with the 4.10's, you will spin all the time, especially at the track when you don't want to. I think 4.11's are chevy gears and 4.10's are Ford. I have 3.73's and avg 17-20 mpg. The gear span will be reduced, but acceleration is gained. From what I understang it is a dramatic difference. The 3.73's were in my car when I bought it. Caymon __________________ '90 GT Under construction Best E.T. = Fast @ High Speeds - OK So I Lie. So What!!! 04 F-150 STX 4.2L 5 spd Rice Haters Club Member #128

01-28-2003, 11:13 AM	#5
B2r3y Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Htown tx Posts: 70	thanks for the advice on that. now as for switching out gears, what would be the differance in these things if i were to go with 3.73, or 4.11( like differance for both if u could): -Gas mileage -gear span(the 2nd gear going to 75mph hehe) -and the qwikness of the car in the 1/4 mile also crazypete, what did u strip off that took off 400lbs? thanks bry

01-28-2003, 09:09 PM	#7
crazypete Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 592	Off the top of my head.... with 3.73's and stock t-5, I pull 2000 rpm's in 5th at 65mph (roughly). See? You could jump up to the next gear ratio and still have tons of wind left in the ole girl. Why would you want to do 75 in 2nd? That sounds like a fantastic way to blow a motor or bend some rods. I think you can do...probably with the same car 60mph in 2nd? Maybe even 65. Milage? I get about 20mpg with the 3.73's and a carb. Granted, I baby this car and mosey around (step 23 on the insurance does that to a person). Go 4.10! Do it! Peeling rubber is fun! Throw the battery in the trunk and get some drag springs. __________________ 91 GT Carb conversion, holley 600 double pumper, edelbrock performer intake, FMS "C" drop springs, march 1000 underdrive pullies, crane 1.7 roller rockers, GT-40P headers, bassani x pipe, american thunder catback, FMS 4.56's, msd aL6, trunkmount battery, A/C eliminator kit, 3000 stall tci streetfighter, AOD with transgo kit, A+ servo, 300M hardened lockup shaft, kevlar bands and 28,000 gvw trans cooler, 3 core radiator, 300 lbs stripped with a full interior

01-28-2003, 10:29 PM	#8
GhettoPop Gimme a Drink! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 694	Thinking about throwing in a pair of either 3.73's or 4.10's in my stock 90 Gt....How difficult is the install? What tools are needed and approx how much time?

01-28-2003, 11:58 PM	#9
crazypete Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 592	Official answer: It's very difficult...blah blah dont attempt it blah blah you'll blow up your axle... The gears are like $150 and install can range from $200-300 Now if you buy fms gears (and this only applies to fms gears), you can attempt it yourself. Worst case: it makes noise and then you take it to a shop. Hell, you can drop the axle and take it to a place that deals especially in them (commercial truck shops do this a lot). I pulled the sway bar off, took off the back panel to the axle (the gear oil smells like CRAP!), pulled out the "pin", removed the c-clips, unbolted the differential, hammered the gear off, boiled the new gear and dropped it onto the diff, took a happy dead blow mallet and coerced the pinion out. Since these are fms gears, I decided to try and see if it was true that you could use the existing shims. I simply reused all the shims and I even, in my great wisdom, reused the old crush sleeve. If figured it was crushed enough already the first time around. I bolted everything back together, tightened the pinion nut and threw it all back together. Took it for a spin. Howled. Tightened the pinion nut till it didnt wobble at all and had some drag on it but was still turnable by hand. Threw it back together again , took it for a spin and it was silent. Took it on the highway and it was silent. Like I said, if this doesnt work, take whatever you've done to the gear shop and have them "fix" what you did. If it's grinding and howling, have it towed for saftey, you dont want to chew up the gears __________________ 91 GT Carb conversion, holley 600 double pumper, edelbrock performer intake, FMS "C" drop springs, march 1000 underdrive pullies, crane 1.7 roller rockers, GT-40P headers, bassani x pipe, american thunder catback, FMS 4.56's, msd aL6, trunkmount battery, A/C eliminator kit, 3000 stall tci streetfighter, AOD with transgo kit, A+ servo, 300M hardened lockup shaft, kevlar bands and 28,000 gvw trans cooler, 3 core radiator, 300 lbs stripped with a full interior

01-29-2003, 11:32 AM	#10
Nixon1 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 432	Pete...how do you get so much gas mileage? I've got a 4.10 or 4.11 rear, one or the other, and a mild cam..but it's an EFI car, and I get a roughly estimated 10 mpg or less sometimes. In a week of normal driving, I put $20 in the Mustang to keep the gas tank up. In my old Camaro that got near 20 mpg, I put in about $10 a week and sometimes drove even more than I am now. SICK! __________________ '91 Mustang GT 5.0 AOD Daily Driver Current stats: NEW 302 short block, E-303 cam (@.050, 220/220, .498/.498, 110 degrees), 1.6 roller rockers, Performer RPM heads (aluminum, 1.9/1.6, 60cc chambers), Cobra intake, Granatelli 75mm MAF, Billet AFPR, Equal-Length Shorty Headers, Off-Road X Pipe, Flowmasters, 4.10 POSI 13.73 at 103.8, ~2.2 60'

01-29-2003, 11:54 AM	#11
crazypete Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 592	Here's a trick that I've learned. Most people drive their cars all wrong. All wrong completely. Most people drive around trying to use the lowest rpms possible. Fuel usage is a function of engine load, not revolutions. Try this. Drive using gear instead of power. What I mean by this is gently let the car spin up to 3k, shift to 2200, run it to 3k, shift and so forth. Notice how high the pedal is. You barely have to put it in to make the car go. Now shift to a higher gear and notice that you have to put the pedal much more just to maintain speed. I noticed this with my saab 9000, which only had a 2.0 turbo. When my firends drove it, the clutch would be chattering almost and the turbo was spinning away as they were trying to drive around at 1200 rpms. When I drove it, the turbo was silent most of the time using the gear method above. It's easy to use a boost guage as an engine load indicator. Ok, then I have pulleys, synthetic fluids bumper to bumper, 400 lbs of weight reduction, good ignition system, open exhaust and a casual driving style. Hope this helps __________________ 91 GT Carb conversion, holley 600 double pumper, edelbrock performer intake, FMS "C" drop springs, march 1000 underdrive pullies, crane 1.7 roller rockers, GT-40P headers, bassani x pipe, american thunder catback, FMS 4.56's, msd aL6, trunkmount battery, A/C eliminator kit, 3000 stall tci streetfighter, AOD with transgo kit, A+ servo, 300M hardened lockup shaft, kevlar bands and 28,000 gvw trans cooler, 3 core radiator, 300 lbs stripped with a full interior

01-29-2003, 11:58 AM	#12
crazypete Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 592	Oh yeah, I tend to underjet the carb a bit, turn the idle screws a bit to the conservative side of things and put in a 9.5 power valve so the fuel is there if I need to punch it. Look! I can actually control my car's fuel usage!!! I LOVE CARBS! __________________ 91 GT Carb conversion, holley 600 double pumper, edelbrock performer intake, FMS "C" drop springs, march 1000 underdrive pullies, crane 1.7 roller rockers, GT-40P headers, bassani x pipe, american thunder catback, FMS 4.56's, msd aL6, trunkmount battery, A/C eliminator kit, 3000 stall tci streetfighter, AOD with transgo kit, A+ servo, 300M hardened lockup shaft, kevlar bands and 28,000 gvw trans cooler, 3 core radiator, 300 lbs stripped with a full interior

01-29-2003, 03:12 PM	#14
crazypete Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 592	This is really close to 400 pounds (390 lbs when last I checked) Removed front bumper and supports Removed light bar and remounted fogs removed skirt around lower engine bay Removed a/c radiator removed all a/c hoses removed a/c compressor removed all tubes and hoses for heater core removed hood heatshield pad battery to the trunk stripped cruise components Stripped airbag sensors and airbag and brackets mechanical fuel pump installed with new timing chain cover Stock fuel pump removed along with all relays and wiring stock EEC-4 removed with all relays and 25 lbs of wiring Pulled all soundproofing except under carpet Removed frame for dashboard (doesnt need it) pulled entire fan and heater tract assembly including parts in dash disabled rear defroster assembly and pulled all relays and wiring Pulled radio support bracket Pulled shifter boot plate Replaced armrest unit with 90' convertible plate removed back seat support frame flipdowns removed back seat support bars removed rear bumper I-beam and supports removed rear axle damper removed pinion snubber strike plate removed spare tire + jack + iron (never came with one) removed tire well plate removed front bumper and support beams __________________ 91 GT Carb conversion, holley 600 double pumper, edelbrock performer intake, FMS "C" drop springs, march 1000 underdrive pullies, crane 1.7 roller rockers, GT-40P headers, bassani x pipe, american thunder catback, FMS 4.56's, msd aL6, trunkmount battery, A/C eliminator kit, 3000 stall tci streetfighter, AOD with transgo kit, A+ servo, 300M hardened lockup shaft, kevlar bands and 28,000 gvw trans cooler, 3 core radiator, 300 lbs stripped with a full interior

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